Topic: I finally actually read the Jap CV3 intro

[Flame]

This means a) Mathias isn't Dracula, or b) Mathias didn't change his name to Dracula until after moving to Wallachia.

Well Leon didnt fight Mathias, Mathias flew away and left Leon to Death. So it still works.

Also, I would assume that's how it played out. he moved there, and started his life anew.

[darkwzrd4]

Well Leon didnt fight Mathias, Mathias flew away and left Leon to Death. So it still works.

Also, I would assume that's how it played out. he moved there, and started his life anew.

Correct.  Leon kill Walter.  Death and Mathias appear as Mathias absorbs Walter's soul.  There is a brief conversation.  After that, Mathias says: "Dawn is coming".  At which point, he leaves Death to deal with Leon.

I believe that if dawn wasn't approaching so quickly, Mathias would have stayed and perhaps fought with Leon and that would be the first battle between "Dracula" and the Belmonts.

[Sumac]

I believe that if dawn wasn't approaching so quickly, Mathias would have stayed and perhaps fought with Leon and that would be the first battle between "Dracula" and the Belmonts.

Giving that anyone, besides Leon, Mathias and Rinaldo knew about this events at all.

[TheouAegis]

Dracula wasn't originally a vampire, he was a Romanian prince. :3 So it's not a given. And being a sorceror doesn't make him a vampire. He could just drink blood out of a chalice. After all, you see him drinking out of a glass, but you never see him SUCKING someone's blood.

[beingthehero]

Wasn't Curse of Darkness the first time we actually see him suck blood?

[crisis]

i'm confused o.o;

[Munchy]

Now THAT's interesting 
In CV3 Dracula was supposed to be a socerer wasn't he? Perhaps the original "Demon Castle Dracula" subtitle had a close relation with the fact that it as, you know, Demon's Castle? And Dracula was always a "priest" for the Devil?

I think this aspect of him was brought up in the manual for CV Adventure as well. But it's sadly never elaborated upon beyond "Dracula was a totally bad dude who used lots of magic".

[TheouAegis]

Apparently I wasn't the only one that noticed this. (I just read this on the Castlevania wiki.) Per CV3, Dracula himself isn't a vampire. Per IGA's games, Dracula has the powers of a vampire. He stole Walter's vampiric powers, just like Soma and Dmitri. The stones allow him to come back to life every 100 years or so, not his vampirism. Vampires don't revive every 100 years after you kill them. You stake one or splash it with holy water and it dies in agonizing death throes. And you don't just become a vampire by stealing another one's soul or possessing a crystal. You gotta get bit by one or drink its blood.

This kinda pertained to this topic and also is kinda a new topic. Just when did Dracula "become" a vampire? Did this happen as soon as he stole Walter's soul? Was he just a human when Trevor met him until the rite to summon Pazuzu succeeded? (Well, whether it succeeded or not could be contended.) Or did the transition occur upon his first resurrection after Trevor slew him? Or did it not occur until after Simon reassembled his corpse? Or did he ever become a vampire?

And I haven't played many of the games very far. One of you said he sucks blood for the first time (on screen) in COD. Can anyone else verify this? I know D can use Dark Metamorphosis, but since Alucard didn't bite enemies with it, but rather just absorbed their blood, that's not really vampirism. I mean, Jiangshi stealing your soul is considered a type of vampirism so in a way Dark Metamorphosis could be a form of vampirism, but it's not specifically vampirism as is classically thought of vampires. It could just be some spell that drains the blood from a target and is absorbed by the caster. Remember, Dracula is an alechmist and sorcerer first and foremost. He has vampiric powers as a fringe benefit.

Next topic of discussion: Did D summon Pazuzu in CV3, did he only partially summon Pazuzu and died in the process, or did he offer up his body as an avatar? The Belmonts have defeated other demons, so why not a demon prince? But Pazuzu seemed pretty weak. Was that because demons are actually weak, or was it because he wasn't fully summoned? Or was it because he possessed the vessel that was D's body after a strenuous battle against Trevor?

Who is the demon Dracula becomes after you defeat his human form post-Trevor? Is that the power of Pazuzu D consumed? That would mean the summoning of Pazuzu wasn't some malicious devil summoning, but rather a conniving ploy to lure a demon prince into the human world so D could steal its powers and Trevor played right into D's plan! Or is D actually the poor, unwitting avatar of Pazuzu, doomed to forever yield his undying body to the demon prince?

[Ratty]

The other important thing to note in CV3's intro is nowhere is Dracula referred to as a vampire. He's a demonologist (and as the games seem to suggest, an alchemist as well). Don't remember if he's actually called a vampire by the time Simon fights him, but as of Trevor's confrontation with him he's never called a vampire.

That makes sense. It goes with the original source material's description of him as a scholar of the dark arts.

"He must, indeed, have been that Voivode Dracula who won his name against the Turk, over the great river on the very frontier of Turkeyland. If it be so, then was he no common man, for in that time, and for centuries after, he was spoken of as the cleverest and the most cunning, as well as the bravest of the sons of the 'land beyond the forest.' That mighty brain and that iron resolution went with him to his grave, and are even now arrayed against us. The Draculas were, says Arminius, a great and noble race, though now and again were scions who were held by their coevals to have had dealings with the Evil One. They learned his secrets in the Scholomance, amongst the mountains over Lake Hermanstadt, where the devil claims the tenth scholar as his due. In the records are such words as 'stregoica' witch, 'ordog' and 'pokol' Satan and hell, and in one manuscript this very Dracula is spoken of as 'wampyr,' which we all understand too well." - Van Helsing, Chapter 18. (emphasis mine)

I know I've quoted that here before but don't know if any of you remember that. Plus it's just one of the coolest passages in the book.

Or is D actually the poor, unwitting avatar of Pazuzu, doomed to forever yield his undying body to the demon prince?

Interesting theory, but seems like if that was the case Pazuzu would have been addressed directly as the force Soma was resisting in AoS/DoS.

[TheouAegis]

No guarantee people even knew about D trying to summon Pazuzu. Even if they did know, nobody would want Pazuzu's power if it dominated over D. They'd be more inclined to have the power of a human who could summon demons. Rather, if he had the power of Dominus, then people would be trying to get that. Even if Pazuzu or some other demon enslaved D's soul, that doesn't necessarily mean that's the power that would be passed on. It could also have been Dracula's attempt at freeing his own soul by passing it on to another human. And since we don't know how the DCW was supposed to have actually gone donw, we'll never know.

The fact D's demon form has the wings coming from his arms, it makes me doubt it was Pazuzu and some other demon must have come into contact with him. Leviathan resembled Pazuzu more but Leviathan had a goat's ehad. Drac's demon post-Trevor  --  I'm not sure what it resembles. Either way, the

[Inccubus]

Um... Alucard is a half-vampire, yes? He was born before the events of CV3, right? Alucard's mother was human. I'm pretty sure that alone settles things. Not to mention, that while the real-world Dracula wasn't a vampire his popular culture counterpart is most definitely is and is inextricably connected to vampirism. Given that the Dracula in Castlevania is based on the popular culture version it stands to reason he's a vampire and became one before the events of CV3.

[crisis]

In Lament, Matthias emerges from an egg-like structure, signifying his rebirth as a vampire, or vampire-like being. Not an ordinary vampire, but a supernatural one (even though regular vampires themselves are supernatural, he is on a level all his own), since he acquired his vampiric powers through unconventional means. Thus, he retains the characteristics of a vampire (sleeping in a coffin, drinking blood from a glass, etc.) but he is above them; the top of the food chain, Castlevania mythos states that vampires are the most evil beings one can become (i forget where i read this).

So yeah, Dracula can be categorized as a sorceror first, vampire second, dark lord third. But he is unique, all 3 at once so it doesn't matter what order you put those in.

[Neobelmont]

He sucked your blood in the 64 games giving you the vampire status.

[Flame]

Mathias became a Vampire through the absorption of Walter's soul. He was "reborn" as a Vampire.

What sets him apart from most however, is that he was not sired. He had no master. Joachim was sired by Walter. Walter is technically his master. (Though given he rebelled against Walter and holds contempt for him, LoI doesnt quite follow the traditionalities of the matter of Master and ...spawn. (I cant remember the other term...) )

And Walter himself most likely was Sired by someone else whenever long ago. Mathias however, has no master- has no creator- His vampirism came to him through alchemy, through STEALING the vampirism from a Vampire, through stealing his soul.

It's kinda what bugged me about that little miniseries on youtube- Even in the original Novel, and the Coppola film, Dracula was never sired. He was always made a Vampire on his own. Be it by a supernatural will to live and refusal to die, or through um, drinking the blood from a bleeding cross.

Actually, thats another thing I notice- In doing what LoI did, it pretty much kept that intact. Dracula obtaining his vampirism through means OTHER than being sired by a Vampire.

(LoS is where they kinda went the other way. Although maybe it could be half and half, considering he absorbed Laura's Blood completely? So he went straight to final form and skipped the whole chain, going from Human to master all in one go, killing off his 'donor'?)

But I digress- Alucard is a Dhampir. he was born BEFORE CV3, while Mathias was Dracula Vlad Tepes and remarried to Lisa. if Alucard his Half vampire, it means Dracula himself IS a Vampire. Besides, he can still be a sorceror and a vampire, cant he? Not like it contradicts CV3's intro. it describes him as such, but doesnt explicitly say he is NOT a Vampire.

[Super Waffle]

I always figured worked like the prologue in Coppola's Dracula movie where he was just like grrr I'm angry at God and imma gonna be evil now.

And then he was a vampire.