Topic: Rampant Police Brutality and Media censorship in Ferguson Missouri

[Mooning Freddy]

B) rioting and looting are deplorable reactions, no matter what actually happened to "incite" them.  I don't believe there is a valid defense for the rioters.  I think it's a big stretch to say I've jumped everyone's shit, but maybe that's just my perspective.  The meanest things I've said in this thread are that Ratty's opinion is uninformed, and that the rioters/looters are douchebags, and I stand by both statements.

^ this.

The results of Brown's autopsy show that the policeman has used excessive force against him, and may support that he shot him while he was on his knees. I think this case is quite clearly one of police brutality, even if the shot teenager was a criminal.

Keeping this in mind, no "public rage" can justify looting, vandalism and attacking law enforcement. Before the whole Gaza mess started in my country, around a month and a half ago, an Arab teen was kidnapped and murdered by Jews in Jerusalem. This has happened around two weeks after Hamas activists had kidnapped and killed three Jewish teenagers. The murderers claimed they did what they did as an act of vengeance. None of the murders could be justified, but the waves of violent Arab riots spawned in Jerusalem and other parts of Israel as a "response" to the murder of the teen cannot be justified either.
"Public rage" is bullshit. By that logic, any crime or act of cruelty could be justified because you're angry. It's not a war, it's not a rebellion against dictatorship of some kind, get your asses back home and let the law do what it has to do.   

[Ratty]

This is about more than just Brown and Wilson.
Over a week later and cops are still escalating violence. Still shooting tear gas at and assaulting reporters. It's a damn shame.

[PFG9000]

A view from the other side:

http://uniformstories.com/stories/police/dear-america-answer-this-one-question-about-the-ferguson-shooting?fb_action_ids=10100175742134997&fb_action_types=og.likes

[Dracula9]

PFG9000 hasn't jumped anyone's shit. He stated some really good questions, and proposed people don't jump to any conclusions before all the information is in and able to be looked at.

Hell, he didn't even call anyone names, or caplocks warrior anywhere. If anything you're jumping his shit throwing out presumptions like him having 'unit mentality' or claiming he feels personally attacked.

Internet =/= tone, my bad.

And I even said I was probably in the wrong on that one.

[PFG9000]

The "Rampant Police Brutality and Media censorship" continues:

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/58304981-78/police-taylor-lake-salt.html.csp
http://www.conservativerefocus.com/blog5.php/2014/08/24/utah-police-shooting-black-cop-killing-of-unarmed-white-remains-unnoticed-by-doj-and-media

Only this time, a Black police officer caught the bug, and an unarmed white kids is the, er, "victim."  I keep waiting for the media outcry, but I guess the corrupt local police force is censoring them again.   

[Ratty]

The "Rampant Police Brutality and Media censorship" continues:

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/58304981-78/police-taylor-lake-salt.html.csp
http://www.conservativerefocus.com/blog5.php/2014/08/24/utah-police-shooting-black-cop-killing-of-unarmed-white-remains-unnoticed-by-doj-and-media

Only this time, a Black police officer caught the bug, and an unarmed white kids is the, er, "victim."  I keep waiting for the media outcry, but I guess the corrupt local police force is censoring them again.   

There has been a lot of police brutality against the media and protestors. I've just been too busy to update you on all the specifics. But here, let me scratch the surface for you.

Ferguson PD Officer Ray Albers who was fired after pointing his gun at protestors and media who were walking by and shouting "I'M GONNA FUCKING KILL YOU"

Ferguson, Missouri (POLICE) I'm Going To KILL YOU !

And then consider for a moment all the images we've seen of gas masked officers pointing guns at unarmed civilians with their hands in the air over the past week. It looks for all the world like Albers was just unfortunate in that he forgot to remove his identification and wear a mask like the earlier ones had done.

Then there's the donation campaigns that have raised well over $200,000 for Wilson, which it later came to light is run by members of the Ferguson PD (sure hope we weren't counting on any of them to be impartial to his investigation) and many of the donators doing it just to congratulate him with messages like this.


(Since this post it's raised another $100,000)


Most of that money is going to go right into Wilson's pocket, because he probably won't need it for attorneys as

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/119157/darren-wilsons-conviction-will-be-basically-impossible

If I were Wilson, and I were only protecting myself in this shooting as Wilson says he was, then I'd seriously consider giving this money to charity, because I'd sure feel filthy spending it.

Also a young woman was shot in the head purportedly by Police Officers, they took the bullet out as "evidence" and now apparently, mysteriously, have no record of her case http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/Another_Shooting_In_Ferguson

Also also - The image of the apparently very toxic, confrontational culture of St. Louis Police just keeps getting fuller- and more disturbing.

" "I personally believe in Jesus Christ as my lord and savior, but I'm also a killer," said officer Dan Page, a 35-year veteran, in the video. "I've killed a lot. And if I need to, I'll kill a whole bunch more. If you don't want to get killed, don't show up in front of me. I have no problems with it. God did not raise me to be a coward." Page added, "I'm into diversity - I kill everybody. I don't care." "

http://news.yahoo.com/suspended-st-louis-police-officer-im-diversity-kill-130100473.html

As for the idea that this is all "liberal media bias" here's how the "liberal" New York Times handled this.

How the NYT spoke of Micheal Brown vs. how they wrote about Timothy McVeigh.



tl;dr



The killing of a black man 15 feet away from Cops elsewhere in St. Louis (which was caught on video) hasn't caught media attention either. Because these deaths didn't start brutal police crackdowns on peaceful and non-peaceful protestors alike.

Oh and there's also a separate fundraiser for Wilson being run by the KKK.

[PFG9000]

None of what you've posted equates to "rampant police brutality."  Ray Albers said some stupid, completely inappropriate things, and he's been suspended appropriately for them.  (Not fired, as far as I can tell.)  But that's not rampant police brutality.  A fundraiser does not amount to rampant police brutality, even if the KKK is involved in their own fundraiser (which they deny).  Dan Page's comments about his military career are disturbing, but were not made in reference to his law enforcement career.  He's been suspended for his comments.  This certainly does not indicate rampant police brutality.

I'm not about to defend Ray Albers.  He shouldn't have said the stupid things he said.  But do you expect police to be perfect 100% of the time?  There are hundreds of officers assigned to the protests in Ferguson.  Isn't it completely natural and even expected that some of the actions of some of those cops might not be appropriate?  Did you mention that Albers had urine thrown on him by the supposedly peaceful protesters the day before this video was taken?  Did you mention that Albers was looking for a gunman in the supposedly peaceful crowd when this video was taken?  Did you know that Albers was working an overtime shift at the protests after he had completed his full work shift that day (somewhere between 8-12 hrs.), so he was just as strung out as the rest of the cops working down there?  None of this justifies his actions, but you can't expect perfection when you've got normal humans with human weaknesses working long hours under extraordinarily stressful conditions.

And what's the kid with the videophone doing there in the first place?  Is he really there to protest peacefully and lawfully, or is he violating the curfew and looking for strung out cops to annoy in order to be the next 15-minute youtube sensation?

I'm going up to the lake for a few days now.  Work, politics, and drama is going to be the last thing on my mind.   

[Ratty]

None of what you've posted equates to "rampant police brutality."

Pretty sure the girl who was shot in the head by police who "can't find" evidence of her case/the bullet qualifies. And the man with the knife who was 15 or so feet away when the cops shot him to death, though that was in another part of St. Louis. I also didn't mention things like the multiple times Police have shot tear gas into the press area. And accusations that they started firing tear gas as much as 3 hours before the curfew at peaceful protestors. Again I'm rather distracted this past week (moving) so there's a lot I haven't specifically brought up. But it's easy to find if you look yourself.

Ray Albers said some stupid, completely inappropriate things, and he's been suspended appropriately for them.  (Not fired, as far as I can tell.)  But that's not rampant police brutality.  A fundraiser does not amount to rampant police brutality, even if the KKK is involved in their own fundraiser (which they deny).  Dan Page's comments about his military career are disturbing, but were not made in reference to his law enforcement career.  He's been suspended for his comments.  This certainly does not indicate rampant police brutality.

I find it more disturbing that he was pointing a gun at people peacefully walking by than what he said. Alberts and Page would have been some of the guys who mentored Wilson when he was a rookie. This demonstrates what is apparently a culture of antagonism, fear and killing in the Ferguson PD.

I'm not about to defend Ray Albers.  He shouldn't have said the stupid things he said.  But do you expect police to be perfect 100% of the time?  There are hundreds of officers assigned to the protests in Ferguson.  Isn't it completely natural and even expected that some of the actions of some of those cops might not be appropriate?  Did you mention that Albers had urine thrown on him by the supposedly peaceful protesters the day before this video was taken?  Did you mention that Albers was looking for a gunman in the supposedly peaceful crowd when this video was taken?  Did you know that Albers was working an overtime shift at the protests after he had completed his full work shift that day (somewhere between 8-12 hrs.), so he was just as strung out as the rest of the cops working down there?  None of this justifies his actions, but you can't expect perfection when you've got normal humans with human weaknesses working long hours under extraordinarily stressful conditions.

If we hadn't seen cops from the very beginning training their guns on civilians with their hands up I might agree with you. The training on how to use these military guns they've got (as multiple people in the military have pointed out, you DON'T point those guns at someone unless you're ready to shoot, doing otherwise will just escalate the situation) and how to deal with both civilians and the press is very poor. And very confrontational and combative towards the people they are supposed to be serving and protecting.

And what's the kid with the videophone doing there in the first place?  Is he really there to protest peacefully and lawfully, or is he violating the curfew and looking for strung out cops to annoy in order to be the next 15-minute youtube sensation?

I'm going up to the lake for a few days now.  Work, politics, and drama is going to be the last thing on my mind.   

Being young and stupid doesn't automatically mean you should have someone pointing a gun at you. I'm in the middle of moving myself. Why I haven't posted much and might be gone for a few weeks.


PS- I had heard Albers was permanently suspended but could be wrong. There is some question as to whether the KKK chapter raising money for Wilson is a "legitimate" part of the KKK, a new independent group or just an opportunist hoping to grab the money and run.

[Mooning Freddy]

I'll just leave this here.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2014/08/armed-police

[X]

Add to that a hyper-militarised police culture and a deep history of racial strife and you have the reason why so many civilians are shot by police officers. Unless America can either reduce its colossal gun ownership rates or fix its deep social problems, shootings of civilians by police—justified or not—seem sure to continue.

After reading that website report this is what stood out for me the most.

[PFG9000]

I'm bumping this now that this story has evolved into part 2.  A grand jury looked at all the known evidence and concluded that there was no probable cause to charge Officer Wilson.  The grand jury news was accompanied with a release of tons of evidence that further indicated that this was yet another example of the media circus manufacturing a story.  The witnesses who claimed Officer Wilson gunned down Michael Brown in cold blood contradicted themselves and other witnesses.  Michael Brown was shot at close range and was not shot in the back.  Michael Brown had marijuana in his system.  Michael Brown was indeed attacking Officer Wilson in his car.  Officer Wilson did in fact know that Michael Brown was a robbery suspect, and Michael Brown did indeed use force to rob a convenience store just before the shooting.  These two facts alone should throw the whole "racial profiling" argument out the window.

And yet, the rioters continue to riot.  The brainwashed left-wing extremists continue to dream up conspiracy theories.  Al Sharpton and Co. continue to demonize a good cop doing his job, and call for changes to Law Enforcement.

So what are the thoughts of those of you who also judged Officer Wilson before knowing all the facts?  I don't expect an apology.  Heck, I don't even expect you've changed your minds in the face of all the new facts.  But I'd be interested to hear your thoughts anyway.

[Mooning Freddy]

It is unfortunate that lately in many places mobs take control of the streets. Seems like it has always been like that... A large group of people lead by a good leader is a great force. However, if the mob has no leader or is lead by demagogues, it turns into an evil force of destruction. The mob will not listen to reason. It is angry because it feels injustice, and it makes no difference whether the injustice is real or imaginary. Eventually, the power of the mob could commit ever greater injustices in the name of vengeance and sacred rage.
Revolutions that get out of hand are supported by the mob. The mob would often choose the most extreme and the biggest demagogue to be its leader, rather than the talented and moderate one. And when no one controls the mobs, the streets would deteriorate to anarchy.

[Rugal]

What about the guy stupid ass cop who choked Eric Garner to death? Let's hear the defense on that shit.

[PFG9000]

I'll go into the Eric Garner video later if you want.  Or start up your own thread on it.  But this topic is about Ferguson.