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Offline Gunlord

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Re: Newcomers' Zone? (and other discussion)
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2013, 09:02:22 PM »
+1
Hm, I see what you're saying. That's a very interesting way of looking at it...while at my old forum, the decision was eventually made to ban that specific ban-evader again, there were some points other raised back then which are similar to the ones you made here. That said, have we had any incidents recently? Maybe I haven't been paying enough attention, but I don't remember anything particularly serious or noteworthy...a few annoying posters left of their own accord after being told off by Jorge, but that's all I can remember. Still, as the old saying goes, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure...no sense waiting until we actually have a situation to search for people capable of dealing with it. They would, after all, need some time to prepare and get used to their position, so the sooner we get more people the better.

I do think it's worth it, however, to think a bit about what kind of organization (if any) our moderators will have. I think it's definitely a discussion folks should have, so everybody can give suggestions and think things over, though if you feel this is a bit off-topic for this thread specifically I of course understand.

Specifically, will there be any sort of vetting period for new mods? How about a hierarchy or any other system of organization? Will all of them have the same sorts of responsibilities, or might they be delegated out? Let me expand on why each of these is important, IMO.

1: The Vetting Period: While we've got a lot of great members here, including those who are still active but have also been around as long as Jorge, remember that being a moderator is still a significant change and a serious and important increase in responsibility compared to being a normal member. It may be that someone who sounds like they'd be a great moderator on paper turns out to be not so great in practice, for any variety of reasons. Some are bad (they're not perceptive or independent enough, irresponsible with their new powers, or show jealousy they didn't display beforehand) while others are just understandable (it turns out they don't have as much free time as they wanted to, or the job puts more stress on them than they thought), but all of them could lead to trouble for us if we're too hasty about making "permanent" moderators. I would advise there be some way of 'testing mods out' for a little while, to see how they do, and/or some system or at least preparation for removing them if they don't pan out, again for whatever reason.

2: Hierarchy and Delegation of Responsibilities: It seems strange to ask about a "chain of command" for an internet forum, since, after all, we're not the military, but again, I do think it's worth considering. First off, even if everyone is given the same "global moderator" status as Bloodreign, it is more likely than not in practice that they'll defer to him and his fellows, given his massive amount of seniority and experience. It goes without saying that Jorge will always be at the top of the heap, since he is an administrator of the forum and would naturally be in charge (Aside: About that, excuse my ignorance, but is Jorge a root administrator? I may be wrong, but IIRC a lot of forums have a "root" administrator, and if one isn't around it can cause a lot of problems).

Even more than that, though, it seems likely all of us would be, again in practice if not in theory, delegated responsibilities depending on our areas and level of expertise. If a fangame designer were promoted to mod, it would probably be expected he would pay the most attention to the Fan Stuff forum, and if a true Castlevania historian were promoted, most would expect him to spend most of his energies protecting the Classic Castlevania discussions.

And, yet another point which goes without saying, we will almost certainly need to organize our staff based on time zones; it won't do us a whole lot of good if we add more mods and they all go to sleep at the same time (allowing our foes to mess around all they want for a few hours). There will probably have to be at least an informal schedule of hours any new mods would be expected to hang around for, distributed among different time zones and so on.

I hope this food for thought helps you guys with whatever choices you make, prunyuu~

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Offline uzo

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Re: Newcomers' Zone? (and other discussion)
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2013, 10:00:17 PM »
+1
Just to be clear, I do think ban evaders are to be re-banned when found out. That's part of the risk and punishment. It keeps them on their toes.

Also, good points to consider. I've been thinking of them myself, but didn't feel the need to post about it yet due to no decision being made so far.

Offline DarkPrinceAlucard

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Re: Newcomers' Zone? (and other discussion)
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2013, 07:48:29 AM »
+1
@Uzo's earlier post concerning moderation, I completely agree.

No offense intended towards the moderators, but I can't help but feel something more needs to be done with moderation when I see a admin handling most of the dirt work around the boards. I recall bringing this up before in a topic a while back about a member who was causing problems (which coincidentally was at night) and how it lasted for a while before Jorge himself finally got on to handle it.


Some new moderators could do this place some good, my only hope is that they are chosen wisely and don't misuse their new power to benefit their beliefs around the board such as being more ban friendly towards the members they disagree with and not towards who they agree with.

They should be totally unbiased when making decisions concerning moderation.


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Offline Jorge D. Fuentes

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Re: Newcomers' Zone? (and other discussion)
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2013, 10:21:53 AM »
+2
Some new moderators could do this place some good, my only hope is that they are chosen wisely and don't misuse their new power to benefit their beliefs around the board such as being more ban friendly towards the members they disagree with and not towards who they agree with.

This is also my hope.
The last thing I'd want is for the moderation team to be heavily opinionated and closed-minded.  There are people in this board with whom I have strongly different opinion, yet a difference in opinion should not be a factor in making moderation/administration procedures.  Only the rules matter.  At least, this is what I have hoped to have conveyed in my time here.  I have tried to be as fair as possible while at the same time not 'ruling with an iron fist'.  Often, a petty squabble isn't really enough to warrant a warning or even addressing the issue.  However, when the forum is disrupted by disrespectful words, intolerant language, and racial/sexual/etc. offensive terms, that does warrant addressing.

On the other side of the coin, the moderation should be able to enforce the law of the forums, regardless of whom is being affected.  This means that they must be able to handle the shift between someone who is a friend, and someone who is a friend who is breaking the rules.

Consideration for candidates is still in progress, and I'm happy to report that the personal message I've received regarding candidates are pretty much on par with my personal picks.  Perhaps at the end of the week I will make a decision and reach out to these people, and if they're ready, willing, and able, we will have some new moderation additions which will, hopeully allow for more forum harmony.
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Offline Bloodreign

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Re: Newcomers' Zone? (and other discussion)
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2013, 01:35:35 PM »
+4
You know what would help too, don't always leave it for us to find, message us or report the post in question. It helped awhile back when one of the members was getting trolled, though the person got in touch with me by other means, I was able to handle the situation and ban the offending poster. Remember I have a job and life outside the forums so I often don't go running through every topic on the boards.

You see something in question, PM a mod. Feel free to use the following button on the post itself.

Report to moderator
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 01:39:09 PM by Bloodreign »

Offline Laina

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Re: Newcomers' Zone? (and other discussion)
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2013, 08:34:22 PM »
+4
I must also agree with Uzo. This is just a situation where there is no clearcut, black & white, right answer/way-people always gonna be asshats, so it falls on us non-asshats to counter them.

Personally speaking, its seems the best we can do is to get some carefully chosen new mods, and perhaps have some current staffers do a little orientation/pep talk. Maybe go over what's worked in their experience (which Mr. Bloodreign has already dropped some knowledge for us to glean), get a schedule of sorts going so as the dungeon's never really left unattended -the mods are humans with lives & other such frivolity, like a need to sleep, so they can't really stake out the whole joint 24/7, but it'll be covered a majority of the time by splitting shifts- just use some planning & preparation.

Honestly though, this is just something that we all need to pitch in on if we wanna keep running a clean operation. This is a great set-up we've got going on, and it means a lot to many different people, wether they make it obvious or not. As a delightful example, I know Pfil's been pretty vocal about it, mentioning several times how this is a sanctuary to her-I would very much like to keep it that way.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 08:42:20 PM by Laina »
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Offline Pfil

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Re: Newcomers' Zone? (and other discussion)
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2013, 07:18:43 PM »
+1
 :) Thanks Laina!  :)
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Offline Gunlord

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Re: Newcomers' Zone? (and other discussion)
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2013, 09:19:00 PM »
+1
Hehe. Yeah, this place is sort of like a lil' sanctuary for me too, truth be told. I think it is for a lot of people :D

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Offline X

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Re: Newcomers' Zone? (and other discussion)
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2013, 10:15:18 AM »
+1
It does keep one's sanity together when he or she feels really alone and needs someone to talk to.
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Offline Ratty

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Re: Newcomers' Zone? (and other discussion)
« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2013, 11:32:08 AM »
0
Just to be clear, I do think ban evaders are to be re-banned when found out. That's part of the risk and punishment. It keeps them on their toes.

Also, good points to consider. I've been thinking of them myself, but didn't feel the need to post about it yet due to no decision being made so far.

Dunno how that would work. I was in a community once where a guy ban jumped so many times (like, 20 at least I think) that they created an entire user group for his banned accounts. Then he kissed the owners ass and they actually let him back on, before he (long story very short) started acting like a manipulative lying backstabbing jerk again and they banned him again. He was then happy when a friend of the owner died... yeah guys a real piece of work. I've always been more of a "I don't want to be where I'm not wanted" type myself.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2013, 11:34:41 AM by Ratty »

Offline DarkPrinceAlucard

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Re: Newcomers' Zone? (and other discussion)
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2013, 03:16:05 PM »
0
Dunno how that would work. I was in a community once where a guy ban jumped so many times (like, 20 at least I think) that they created an entire user group for his banned accounts. Then he kissed the owners ass and they actually let him back on, before he (long story very short) started acting like a manipulative lying backstabbing jerk again and they banned him again. He was then happy when a friend of the owner died... yeah guys a real piece of work. I've always been more of a "I don't want to be where I'm not wanted" type myself.

This brings me to a question.

Can't this place IP ban someone?


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Offline Ratty

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Re: Newcomers' Zone? (and other discussion)
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2013, 04:02:45 PM »
0
This brings me to a question.

Can't this place IP ban someone?

I don't know the answer to that but I would assume so. Though as the guy I mentioned earlier showed there are easy enough ways around that.

Offline Jorge D. Fuentes

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Re: Newcomers' Zone? (and other discussion)
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2013, 04:31:16 PM »
0
This brings me to a question.

Can't this place IP ban someone?

That won't stop someone from registering again from, say, a phone, or their buddies' PC using another ISP, or using Tor to piggyback off of another connection.
Actually the recent evasion wasn't due to a ban; I only test people sometimes by blocking their ability to post without outright banning them.  When an account is really banned, the board says "Sorry, you are banned from using this board".
If someone logs in and it doesn't say that, they're not quite banned.  I just removed a number of permissions they had before.
I always hope that people do the right thing, so it is disappointing when they bite the hook and do the evasion.  It shows me that they really don't care, and really have no concept of personal responsibility.

But a good websearch will easily yield ways to get around an IP Ban, an E-mail handle ban, a username ban, and a host ban.  You are not a l33t h4xx0r just because you know how to use the web searches, you're just a repeat offender with a lot of time on your hands.

One of the methods used to ban-evade is to use a proxy server to connect.  Certain foreign countries, as well as certain phone carriers, use a proxy server to connect.  Currently, that method is blocked.  This is a double-edged sword, however, because, although it blocks someone from using a phone carrier maliciously, it also stops people from legitimately connecting to the board.  Some people's ability to post from cellphones were recently affected because of this.  You can thank the offenders.  In fact, every time you lose an ability to do something, it's their fault. :P

It will be some time before I open up access to the board using such methods.

Like in real life, though, just because there are ways out of prison doesn't mean cops should stop trying to arrest you.
So the moderation team and I will continue to ban people whose attitudes break the rules, even if they find ways to make their way back in.
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Offline Lelygax

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Re: Newcomers' Zone? (and other discussion)
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2013, 08:36:12 PM »
0
In fact, every time you lose an ability to do something, it's their fault. :P

So we could post porn in the past until someone posted 2girls1cup or something like that here? lol
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Offline Ratty

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Re: Newcomers' Zone? (and other discussion)
« Reply #29 on: July 01, 2013, 04:20:57 PM »
+1
So we could post porn in the past until someone posted 2girls1cup or something like that here? lol

IIRC there was an "adult only thread" or forum here before my time. It devolved into a disreputable state and didn't mesh with the pretty much all-ages atmosphere we try to maintain here so it was done away with.

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