Topic: Lords of Shadow plotholes (may contain spoilers)

[e105beta]

Speaking of which, where was God in the 2nd game? Why did they leave him out and replace him with "fate?" Was it too un-mainstream to have God be a directing force in a game like the first one? Having the whole "fate" spiel was so cliche and boring. 

LoS1 probably flew under the radar because it was a cult hit, but LoS2 had to be mainstream, and thus had to fit the mainstream standard. Mainstream games empower you, make you feel bigger than anything else. They are about killing God/gods, not about futilely struggling against them. Probably why the only reason he was mentioned in LoS2 was when Dracula was giving his "I am and will forever be a thorn in his side!" rant.

Seriously, though, you could replace almost every instance of "Fate" in the LoS series with "God" or something of the like and it would make MORE sense.

"I know all. I am here to make sure everything happens tonight as it is supposed to happen. I am here to guide you."
"Guide me? I don't need anyone to guide or direct me. Move aside!"
"As you wish. However God already has a plan for you and there is nothing you can do to change it. I am sorry to say that you will not achieve your objective, and your wife and son will suffer the consequences of your failure." - The Mirror of Fate and Trevor, Castlevania: Lords of Shadow: Mirror of Fate

"I have fought against God, even though it was in vain. But you, you accepted God's plan. You were betrayed at every turn, yet you still followed the path set out for you even when that betrayal included your own wife. God is cruel, but in the end, I pity you, father." -Trevor, Castlevania: Lords of Shadow: Mirror of Fate

"It seems God has given me a second chance. I have come to finish what I started!" - Alucard, Castlevania: Lords of Shadow: Mirror of Fate

"No one knows what God has in store" - Dracula, Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2

And instead of the "Spirit of the Mirror of Fate" which in the grand scheme of things just comes off as a plot device, just make him the "Angel of Fate"

"Remember, after all this is over, choose your family".

Marie is his family too. That could have just meant don't give into the evil Dracula blood again.

[Ahasverus]

Marie is his family too. That could have just meant don't give into the evil Dracula blood again.

Well, Marie is in heaven and happy, Alucard is still on earth, cursed, and never had a father. I think Trevor needs him more than with Marie. Unless they both kill themselvs to be "free" which is, well, disturbing lol

[darkwzrd4]

Well, being that they killed Satan and saved the world, they could be rewarded for all they went through by having their humanity restored and living in the modern era as humans, or "God" could just purify them (essentially painlessly killing them) so that they could ascend to Heaven to be with Marie and live as a happy family for eternity.

Then again, being the cruel jerk that he is, god could just send them both to Hell. I mean it would be par for the course considering how both Gabula and Trevorcard lost everything including their humanity and are now cursed beings (vampires).

[Ahasverus]

LoS' God is a true asshole.

(click to show/hide)

I know there is a joke in there about the faithfullness of the adaptation but I won't do it.

[Anglachel]

Also, remember this line from the first game?

"It is what is in men's hearts that He cares about. He loves you as He loves me. We have only to ask for forgiveness deep within ourselves and be welcomed back."

I was SO expecting that to be a central, underlying theme in the 2nd game, where perhaps Dracula realizes that he does, in fact, care about the world.

[e105beta]

Also, remember this line from the first game?

"It is what is in men's hearts that He cares about. He loves you as He loves me. We have only to ask for forgiveness deep within ourselves and be welcomed back."

I was SO expecting that to be a central, underlying theme in the 2nd game, where perhaps Dracula realizes that he does, in fact, care about the world.

Yeah, that just goes back to how they dropped the ball on the entire redemption plot in the second game. By excising God out of LoS2, they destroyed the layers, upon layers, upon layers of thematic background they had set-up in LoS1. They destroyed Dracula's whole reason for being. Instead of a game where you play a real asshole who eventually finds his humanity and learns to forgive and love again, you get some wishy-washy anti-hero who never ends up making any strong decisions other than "DRACULA SMASH PUNY SATAN!" Ugh, and they hinted to it SO MUCH. I'll never really "get over it" in the sense that it'll always be a complete waste of writing to me.

I'm still amazed the same man wrote LoS1 and LoS2. I honest to Fate (*insert chuckle here*) think executives had something to do with it.

[Flame]

think executives had something to do with it.

Yeah. Alvarez. He IS the executives.

If what that guy said is the way it went, then after LoS1 hit big, it went to his head and his 'vision' of some epic is what ended up ruining the game due to the clashes with everyone else.

It IS possible that LoS1 was a fluke on Alvarez' part. Also, LoS1 had 3 writers aside from Alvarez, including Eddie Deighton and Dave Cox himself. I don't know about Eddie, but Cox at least is the CV fan in that lineup. he's also the Konami supervisor, so i imagine his opinions hold weight, even over Alvarez.

From the looks of it however, and I can't find any info on this- but it seems like LoS2 might have been written entirely by Alvarez himself. the story definitely FEELS like something that would happen when there's only one writer and no others to check and edit the work. LoS1 has a nicely crafted plot and storyline, and the writing is pretty good. there was a TEAM working on that script and story. MoF had a TEAM of at least 2 people writing, once again including Dave Cox, who along with Jose Luis Márquez, are both Castlevania fans. MoF is a simpler game, and also, despite it's TWEESTS and whatnot, is when you think about it, a very simple plot, that 2 people can definitely make work.

LoS2 meanwhile, definitely would have needed at least 3 people again, maybe even 1 more, given the scope of the now established plotline, and the fact that it was a closing game.

[Intersection]

As far as I'm concerned, LoS2 didn't have any plot holes -- LoS2 was a plot hole. For all it's worth, you might as well write a synopsis of the game's story and slap it on to this thread; it'd be the most exhaustive post yet.

[e105beta]

Yeah. Alvarez. He IS the executives.

If what that guy said is the way it went, then after LoS1 hit big, it went to his head and his 'vision' of some epic is what ended up ruining the game due to the clashes with everyone else.

It IS possible that LoS1 was a fluke on Alvarez' part. Also, LoS1 had 3 writers aside from Alvarez, including Eddie Deighton and Dave Cox himself. I don't know about Eddie, but Cox at least is the CV fan in that lineup. he's also the Konami supervisor, so i imagine his opinions hold weight, even over Alvarez.

From the looks of it however, and I can't find any info on this- but it seems like LoS2 might have been written entirely by Alvarez himself. the story definitely FEELS like something that would happen when there's only one writer and no others to check and edit the work. LoS1 has a nicely crafted plot and storyline, and the writing is pretty good. there was a TEAM working on that script and story. MoF had a TEAM of at least 2 people writing, once again including Dave Cox, who along with Jose Luis Márquez, are both Castlevania fans. MoF is a simpler game, and also, despite it's TWEESTS and whatnot, is when you think about it, a very simple plot, that 2 people can definitely make work.

LoS2 meanwhile, definitely would have needed at least 3 people again, maybe even 1 more, given the scope of the now established plotline, and the fact that it was a closing game.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like Alvarez.

But while I don't disagree with anything you said, LoS2's story doesn't just feel different from LoS1's story, it feels different from itself. It doesn't have any consistency. It feels like at one point LoS2 was being written by multiple people but Alvarez took complete control of it by the end.

That being said, after hearing how the ending was supposed to be "remembered and discussed for a long time", and getting the ending we got, I feel like Konami came in and said "We want an open ended ending in case this game gets huge". If it fails, then nobody suffers but the players, and if it succeeds, Konami can milk the cash cow. Alvarez was done with the game either way.

[Asgardwolf]

When Dracula is arguing with Alucard about all their plan and before he`s impaled with the crissaegrim he said if he dies some one else will just take his place as the evil that reign. With Satan and Zobek dead He prob`lly can`t die for the same reason, if he does some one else will take his place anyways and that`s maybe Drac and Al way to keep evil on watch and controlled.

[Anglachel]

When Dracula is arguing with Alucard about all their plan and before he`s impaled with the crissaegrim he said if he dies some one else will just take his place as the evil that reign. With Satan and Zobek dead He prob`lly can`t die for the same reason, if he does some one else will take his place anyways and that`s maybe Drac and Al way to keep evil on watch and controlled.

While that makes sense, it's certainly not implied during the ending. Dracula just walks away and Alucard stands there?

[crisis]

so who wrote that book that Dracula reads in the third act so he can recall his past? and why is it conveniently placed behind the throne room? who put it there?

[Flame]

so who wrote that book that Dracula reads in the third act so he can recall his past? and why is it conveniently placed behind the throne room? who put it there?

Dracula probably. It's probably his chronicles or some shit.

[darkmanx_429]

Yeah. Alvarez. He IS the executives.

If what that guy said is the way it went, then after LoS1 hit big, it went to his head and his 'vision' of some epic is what ended up ruining the game due to the clashes with everyone else.

It IS possible that LoS1 was a fluke on Alvarez' part. Also, LoS1 had 3 writers aside from Alvarez, including Eddie Deighton and Dave Cox himself. I don't know about Eddie, but Cox at least is the CV fan in that lineup. he's also the Konami supervisor, so i imagine his opinions hold weight, even over Alvarez.


From the looks of it however, and I can't find any info on this- but it seems like LoS2 might have been written entirely by Alvarez himself. the story definitely FEELS like something that would happen when there's only one writer and no others to check and edit the work. LoS1 has a nicely crafted plot and storyline, and the writing is pretty good. there was a TEAM working on that script and story. MoF had a TEAM of at least 2 people writing, once again including Dave Cox, who along with Jose Luis Márquez, are both Castlevania fans. MoF is a simpler game, and also, despite it's TWEESTS and whatnot, is when you think about it, a very simple plot, that 2 people can definitely make work.

LoS2 meanwhile, definitely would have needed at least 3 people again, maybe even 1 more, given the scope of the now established plotline, and the fact that it was a closing game.

I agree. What a disappointment with LOS2. I probably will never play it a second go around or try to get 100%.

[Anglachel]

Dracula probably. It's probably his chronicles or some shit.

Man, now I want to see what's in there. It would be interesting to see what this Dracula has been through after Mirror of Fate.