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Offline X

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Re: Portrait of Ruin and Nazis
« Reply #60 on: February 04, 2017, 11:22:01 AM »
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Offline zangetsu468

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Re: Portrait of Ruin and Nazis
« Reply #61 on: February 04, 2017, 04:45:39 PM »
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I think it was actually a good decision not to include or reference Nazis in the game. I'm guessing this was done in order to upset or offended anybody which I think is important to keep in mind. Secondly, although I don't condone anything the  Nazis have done, I'm personally not a fan of the idea of putting them on the same level as demons and other monsters who you can kill in a video game without feeling bad about it.

They were never going to put Nazi's or Hitler outright in the game. However Brauner is an artist who looks Caucasian and paints with blood in the context of WWII, with a completely shaved head. I'd say it's safe to assume at least some inspiration from Hitler. Frankly I'm glad they didn't put Hitler in the game, the guy just doesn't seem threatening as an enemy in a video game. (not in Wolfenstein, not now)

They could, however, have put soldiers in the game (rather than recycled sprites) who could've been under the influence of chaos. Having a swastika on the wall of the nation of fools during the events of WWII could have been historically accurate. Placing soldiers (not specifically Nazi soldiers) in that stage who were under the influence of Dracula/ Brauner or influenced by the rising of chaos in general could have worked in context. This is not demonizing someone's belief system who follows the doctrine of Hitler, it's being somewhat historically accurate.

I'd also like to point out that games such as Wolfenstein 3d and Return to Castle Wolfenstein had similar themes, the Nazi's were the enemies of these games, it's a contextual plot device, that isn't taking digs at anyone's belief system. It's a representation of history. Hitler is a historical figure, as is Dracula and both have appeared in popular culture, comics being a prime example https://www.mycomicshop.com/search?TID=275481
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/91/ab/cb/91abcb98d796c3d0c7909da7f4ee565e.jpg
Characters such as these as well as their associations, give historical context to a plot or situation. Nobody is saying if soldiers were in the game they had to be killed or vanquished inhumanely, they could have been zombie soldiers or the like. Dracula's influence would have been enough of a logistical and rational reason for their "evil".
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Offline Dracula9

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Re: Portrait of Ruin and Nazis
« Reply #62 on: February 04, 2017, 04:54:00 PM »
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You say that like the Nazi belief system is one we should be considerate and polite towards.  :P

I don't disagree with the rest of the rhetoric, though, quite the opposite, just pointing out an observation.


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Offline zangetsu468

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Re: Portrait of Ruin and Nazis
« Reply #63 on: February 04, 2017, 05:26:50 PM »
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You say that like the Nazi belief system is one we should be considerate and polite towards.  :P

They were big on animal rights, I can get down with that.
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Offline Lumi Kløvstad

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Re: Portrait of Ruin and Nazis
« Reply #64 on: February 04, 2017, 08:18:19 PM »
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They were big on animal rights, I can get down with that.

Also the Nazis carried out the first public anti-smoking PR campaign in history, and they were the first to link smoking conclusively to lung cancer.
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Re: Portrait of Ruin and Nazis
« Reply #65 on: February 05, 2017, 08:55:11 AM »
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And they also tried to take over the world and exterminate whole races of people....  But yeah they were nice to puppies and kitties.  :rollseyes:
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13104670/1/Castlevania-Birth-of-the-Dragon

Dracula was not always a monster. He was once a man named Mathias Cronqvist. A flawed, conflicted, genius of a man. How did the educated, aristocratic, crusader who piously served the church become a vampire, and eventually the Dark Lord himself, the opposing force to God? From a very young age terrors and tragedy shaped the man into the king of all evil. This is his story.

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Re: Portrait of Ruin and Nazis
« Reply #66 on: February 05, 2017, 01:38:43 PM »
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And they also tried to take over the world and exterminate whole races of people....  But yeah they were nice to puppies and kitties.  :rollseyes:
Funny enough, I've been trying to wrap my head around it. Fundamentally Nazism is pretty damn awesome if it weren't for the Genocide and World Domination, but hey, I live in the US so if I don't walk with the mass propaganda, I'll be labeled a Neo-Nazi Racist :/

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Re: Portrait of Ruin and Nazis
« Reply #67 on: February 05, 2017, 05:33:53 PM »
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Quote
Fundamentally Nazism is pretty damn awesome if it weren't for the Genocide and World Domination

And if it wasn't for that whole, pain, blood, injury, loud noises, and death thing, I wouldn't mind getting shot in the head, but that's kind of the main aspect of the thing. 


Offline zangetsu468

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Re: Portrait of Ruin and Nazis
« Reply #68 on: February 05, 2017, 06:46:12 PM »
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Funny enough, I've been trying to wrap my head around it. Fundamentally Nazism is pretty damn awesome if it weren't for the Genocide and World Domination
They're extremists, they move from one extreme to the next. What I can't wrap my head around is take Canadians for example, they're portrayed as peaceful, non-violent people. Yet I still receive emails from Humane Society International, telling me that it's seal pup bashing season... :-\ The answer? Not every Canadian nor person is peaceful, every country, every ethnicity has extremists. Anyone who can beat a defenseless animal to death needs their head examined, preferably in solitary confinement.

Back to Nazi's, it could have made for some interesting CV architecture with the environments. Nazi Architecture was large and imposing, but it was also a bit stark and cold. If POR was based around Europe, it would've been a good excuse to explore some of these areas.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2017, 07:33:30 PM by zangetsu468 »
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Offline AlexCalvo

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Re: Portrait of Ruin and Nazis
« Reply #69 on: February 07, 2017, 05:47:10 AM »
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Ok I just want to drop a quick incite.  Nazism is not cool, or "almost perfect" or anything resembling the two.  I'm hoping you guys are a little young and just working through your own philosophy like we all do.  Nazism is racist trash, inherited from horrific murderers.

On topic.  I kind of agree with Nagumo, but for a very different reason.  I think that you have to be really careful about not giving things the gravity that they deserve.  Could you imagine just how Nazis would have been incorporated into PoR?  The saturday morning cartoon vania(note: I do still love PoR)?  WWII and the Holocaust are events that really should not be done in such a silly, light hearted style.  It's just kind of disrespectful.  Maybe in a game more tonally in line with AoS or CoD, but even then it's pushing it.
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13104670/1/Castlevania-Birth-of-the-Dragon

Dracula was not always a monster. He was once a man named Mathias Cronqvist. A flawed, conflicted, genius of a man. How did the educated, aristocratic, crusader who piously served the church become a vampire, and eventually the Dark Lord himself, the opposing force to God? From a very young age terrors and tragedy shaped the man into the king of all evil. This is his story.

Offline zangetsu468

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Re: Portrait of Ruin and Nazis
« Reply #70 on: February 07, 2017, 06:30:25 AM »
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Ok I just want to drop a quick incite.  Nazism is not cool, or "almost perfect" or anything resembling the two.  I'm hoping you guys are a little young and just working through your own philosophy like we all do.  Nazism is racist trash, inherited from horrific murderers.

Everyone else can speak for themselves. I said I like the idea of animal rights only, I still do believe animals should be afforded the right to not be tortured, used in experiments or beaten to death. However, I do not condone nor accept or practice Nazi/ white supremacist ideals and practices.
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Offline X

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Re: Portrait of Ruin and Nazis
« Reply #71 on: February 07, 2017, 10:13:08 AM »
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Quote
On topic.  I kind of agree with Nagumo, but for a very different reason.  I think that you have to be really careful about not giving things the gravity that they deserve.  Could you imagine just how Nazis would have been incorporated into PoR?  The saturday morning cartoon vania(note: I do still love PoR)?  WWII and the Holocaust are events that really should not be done in such a silly, light hearted style.  It's just kind of disrespectful.  Maybe in a game more tonally in line with AoS or CoD, but even then it's pushing it.

Doing a PoR game with Nazis doesn't automatically include all the other things as well (such as the holocaust.) It would simply be a story about the Nazi's using the powers of the supernatural (Dracula and Castlevania) in order to promote their victory in achieving global conquest. It can be as simple as that without stepping on anyone's "sensitive toes" so to speak. I personally don't condone Nazism, I condemn it. Hard. However in terms of story-telling, history, etc. they are a fascinating subject and give us a glimpse into a very turbulent time of the mid-20th century. It's all in our points of view how we chose to perceive these things. No-one can speak for everyone here, we can only speak for ourselves.
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Re: Portrait of Ruin and Nazis
« Reply #72 on: February 07, 2017, 03:04:45 PM »
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I agree completely.  What you are failing to do is look at it in the context of PoT. Arguably the most juvenile and cartoonish game in the series, as i refered to "the saturday morning cartoon vania." Tonally it's quite a goofy and childish affair.  And while it's basic story structure is pretty great, the execution seems laser aimed at younger fans.  Do you think a children's animated series with Nazis in it would be appropriate? It's just disrespectful to take so lightly.

I'm not saying Nazis in Castlevania could never work. I actually gave specific examples of other games that had a serious enough tone where I thought it could work out ok.  I'm a big fan of the Hellboy comic series, which is pretty heavy with the Nazi ocultism.  I am far from saying this subject is too taboo to ever tackle.
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13104670/1/Castlevania-Birth-of-the-Dragon

Dracula was not always a monster. He was once a man named Mathias Cronqvist. A flawed, conflicted, genius of a man. How did the educated, aristocratic, crusader who piously served the church become a vampire, and eventually the Dark Lord himself, the opposing force to God? From a very young age terrors and tragedy shaped the man into the king of all evil. This is his story.

Offline zangetsu468

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Re: Portrait of Ruin and Nazis
« Reply #73 on: February 07, 2017, 04:51:07 PM »
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Do you think a children's animated series with Nazis in it would be appropriate? It's just disrespectful to take so lightly.


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Re: Portrait of Ruin and Nazis
« Reply #74 on: February 07, 2017, 07:32:25 PM »
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cough cough be prepared in lion king cough


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