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Offline uzo

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Re: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow - Mirror of Fate 3DS (Discussion Thread)
« Reply #5415 on: March 17, 2013, 01:16:08 PM »
0
Looks like the honey moon with a lot of fans is over, and the true impressions of the game are showing through. Sounds exactly as I expected, especially based on what I experience by playing the demo.

I haven't skipped a single Castlevania release since I revisited the series right after the N64 releases (about the time when I had my own money to keep up with the releases). All day 1 purchases, collectors when available, not missing a beat (even LoS). This is the first game I purposely didn't get it, and had in fact cancelled my preorder on.

Offline Flame

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Re: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow - Mirror of Fate 3DS (Discussion Thread)
« Reply #5416 on: March 17, 2013, 01:35:51 PM »
0
I'm actually kind of surprised, it looked far better in the advertisements and trailers. I mean, the LoS trailers were spectacularly full of hype, and I personally, wasn't disappointed, although it felt like false advertising to show Dracul and overlay the line "DIE BELMONT!" as if to tease Dracula. But MoF just seems overall "meh".

I'll probably still get it whenever I get around to buying a 3DS though, just sos to play it myself.
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Offline Nagumo

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Offline Neobelmont

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Re: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow - Mirror of Fate 3DS (Discussion Thread)
« Reply #5418 on: March 17, 2013, 02:10:57 PM »
0
I will never ever turn in a cv game but overall LoS was a better, well thought out game I prefer wayover MoF. I got 100%,and hardcore? Well.... not very hardcore after this is what a speedrun(which I am all ready doing on HC)?
I never thought I would say this but it's just an okay game. I like it but it is not a dracula's curse(nothing like it) this was one of my most anticipated games for this year besides fire emblem. And in my opinion it hurt the franchise more than helped it. People are going to see this and say forget this crappy series or something and never give it a chance I guess this  is what happens when you only got about 20 people working on the game(maybe if they had more people it would have been different)  :'(

Well I guess it's back to fire emblem.

But hey with so much classes at least it's a good quick time burner right?

Also I really hope that LoS2 delivers MS has to redeem themselves so badly they do not even know.
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Come on now this was going to happen eventually  :P

Offline Dremn

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Re: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow - Mirror of Fate 3DS (Discussion Thread)
« Reply #5419 on: March 17, 2013, 02:15:14 PM »
+1
Damn, I feel like I'm in a very small minority here. I really did like the game, but I'm not too surprised the backlash is so severe either.

Hope this doesn't make Konami think we don't want Castlevanias on handhelds anymore.


Offline Neobelmont

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Re: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow - Mirror of Fate 3DS (Discussion Thread)
« Reply #5420 on: March 17, 2013, 02:25:34 PM »
0
Damn, I feel like I'm in a very small minority here. I really did like the game, but I'm not too surprised the backlash is so severe either.

Hope this doesn't make Konami think we don't want Castlevanias on handhelds anymore.

I like the game too, but I think due to lack of experience on MS part for 2d and handhelds, over expectation on others part, and only 20 people working on this(If more people worked on it I'm sure it would have been better how much can 20 people do). I think I'm starting to see certain things now. Also I wonder how nintendo is seeing this as well cox has said that they were impressed with the code or something now what?  :-\

But I will say LoS>MoF there will not be a next time for a 2.5d cv game by these guys no way will konami consider it after all of this.
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Offline crisis

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Re: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow - Mirror of Fate 3DS (Discussion Thread)
« Reply #5421 on: March 17, 2013, 02:48:02 PM »
+4
I'm in the minority that likes the game too but I still wholly believe that a brand new "metroidvania" produced by IGA & his team would've faired way better than this attempt, both gameplay & review-wise (possibly even sales-wise). The soundtrack would've been way better than MoF's without a doubt, the combat/gameplay would've had way more variety & more satisfaction (OoE), the plot could've been hit or miss. And don't even get me started on replayability (MoF has none, once you get 100% completion and I did that on my first playthrough). At least nobody's complaining about MoF's artstyle which I think is fantastic (not counting the in-game cutscenes).

Perhaps the community's being a little harsh on MercurySteam's first attempt at a 2D-ish game. But Konami should've just listened to most fans & kept MS "LoSvania" on consoles and canon Castlevania on portables, that way everybody's happy.

But bring on the IGA haters that just won't accept that he's capable of another good Castlevania game.

Offline Flame

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Re: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow - Mirror of Fate 3DS (Discussion Thread)
« Reply #5422 on: March 17, 2013, 04:09:57 PM »
+1
I still wholly believe that a brand new "metroidvania" produced by IGA & his team would've faired way better than this attempt, both gameplay & review-wise
maybe, maybe not. His development method leads to either  a great game with an interesting gameplay gimmick, or a terrible game with a terrible gimmick or worse.

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(possibly even sales-wise).
I highly doubt that. Hasn't pretty much everything since DoS bombed, maybe with the exception of HD?(which is a totally different beast)

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The soundtrack would've been way better than MoF's without a doubt,
Subjective. Of course it would have been "better". It would have contained every single fan favorite tune. Bloody tears, Vampire Killer, etc. Which is something I noticed about later IGAvanias. Too much musical fanservice. I like bloody tears. I can do without hearing it all the time though. And IMO, the DS games had some bad instrumentation. The tunes could probably have fallen better on my ears with different composition. DoS is my biggest offender here. Something about it's music just sounds so... generic to me. Worse than AoS even, and that was an inferior sound quality and capability.

TL;DR, that is subjective, and in the ear of the beholder

 
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the combat/gameplay would've had way more variety & more satisfaction
I don't find grind based gameplay satisfactory, and the level up system could be done away with the way IGAVanias did it. It also depends on what gimmick he would implement. it could be a total dud gimmick.

 
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the plot could've been hit or miss.
I'll say it would. it would either be an interesting well written story, or a disastrous car wreck. Especially if he's doing a sequel.

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And don't even get me started on replayability
Granted, though most of it came from the collectibles aspect they had. be it weapon drops, item drops, spell/soul/glyphs, or what have you, there were tons. that's where the bulk of the re playability lies. But grinding for all that isn't to everyone's tastes.

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At least nobody's complaining about MoF's artstyle which I think is fantastic (not counting the in-game cutscenes).
Well that I remembered, noone really minded LoS art style either, the little it was used. (the special edition/Japanese box art, and the bestiary/character book)

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Perhaps the community's being a little harsh on MercurySteam's first attempt at a 2D-ish game. But Konami should've just listened to most fans & kept MS "LoSvania" on consoles and canon Castlevania on portables, that way everybody's happy.
that works, I suppose... But I'd hate to have the classic canon relegated to handhelds. That's where part of the problem lay to begin with, IMO.

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But bring on the IGA haters that just won't accept that he's capable of another good Castlevania game.
The problem with IGA is he is COMPLETELY hit or miss. Either he totally nails it, and makes an awesome game, (AoS, OoE) Or he fails spectacularly. (DoS, PoR, CoD) And the root cause is he relies too much on gimmick driven gameplay. Gimmicks which he then usually shoehorns into the plot, since he develops the gimmick first, and the story later.

Also, he is WAY too reliant on asset reuse.

It's not that he CAN'T make a good game, it's just that it's best not to gamble on him. That and his time has passed. Time to let others make CV games again.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2013, 04:12:44 PM by Flame »
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Offline Kingshango

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Re: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow - Mirror of Fate 3DS (Discussion Thread)
« Reply #5423 on: March 17, 2013, 05:15:05 PM »
0
Wow the thread took a hell of a turn around compared to a few weeks ago. Well I still wanna play it for myself and I plan on getting it one day.


Offline Dremn

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Re: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow - Mirror of Fate 3DS (Discussion Thread)
« Reply #5424 on: March 17, 2013, 05:19:35 PM »
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But bring on the IGA haters that just won't accept that he's capable of another good Castlevania game.
What is IGA up to these days? Is he even still at Konami?


Offline Kingshango

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Re: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow - Mirror of Fate 3DS (Discussion Thread)
« Reply #5425 on: March 17, 2013, 05:33:50 PM »
0
What is IGA up to these days? Is he even still at Konami?

He's still there but what he's doing currently is unknown.

This was the last thing he was involved in, a Kinect game from 2011.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOBPKKBjLyo

Offline crisis

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Re: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow - Mirror of Fate 3DS (Discussion Thread)
« Reply #5426 on: March 17, 2013, 05:48:58 PM »
+1
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maybe, maybe not. His development method leads to either  a great game with an interesting gameplay gimmick, or a terrible game with a terrible gimmick or worse.
I'm betting it would've been a great game, since OoE was a step in the right direction. Despite being released about 5 years ago, it still holds up today.

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It would have contained every single fan favorite tune.
Probably not every single fan favorite tune, but it would have included a few. At this point I don't think most fans would object to the idea of more traditional CV music, after the bland Hollywood-esque soundtracks of LoS & MoF. Not to mention the sound quality in MoF is borderline terrible, a fact Jorge pointed out earlier. There's never been an issue with this before, at least not to this extent.

From the review posted earlier, "Not long ago, former series composer Michiru Yamane told me that when she first came on board to work on Castlevania Bloodlines, a coworker warned her that she had a grand legacy to live up to. Clearly, things have changed."

I mean, ouch.

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I don't find grind based gameplay satisfactory, and the level up system could be done away with the way IGAVanias did it. It also depends on what gimmick he would implement. it could be a total dud gimmick.
As many reviews have pointed out, MoF would have benefitted from more RPG aspects, such as the ones in IGA's games. MoF's "gimmick" relies too much on QTE-based attacks and scripted whip-swinging; there's very little in terms of freedom in that regard and almost every review points this out. Why couldn't they just use the whip-swinging mechanics from SCIV, their "bible?"

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I'll say it would. it would either be an interesting well written story, or a disastrous car wreck. Especially if he's doing a sequel.
I'm sure it would've been better or at least on par with MoF's narrative, except less-reliant on highly-predictable plot-twists. I still find it funny that people here still had doubts that Trevor was gonna turn into Alucard, it was super-obvious since almost the beginning, and Cox's flat-out lyingcoy attitude toward this made it even funnier.

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Granted, though most of it came from the collectibles aspect they had. be it weapon drops, item drops, spell/soul/glyphs, or what have you, there were tons. that's where the bulk of the re playability lies. But grinding for all that isn't to everyone's tastes.
Extra weapons/spells/etc. in MoF would have been delightful, especially with Alucard's portion and would have gave MS an excellent opportunity to flex their creative side, instead of relying solely on "whips for everybody." If it's rewarding and adds to the gameplay, then I don't see this as a bad thing. Better than no replayability at all, like MoF unfortunately has.


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that works, I suppose... But I'd hate to have the classic canon relegated to handhelds. That's where part of the problem lay to begin with, IMO.
It could be digital like ReBirth, but that sucks for collectors like myself that like physical copies.

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The problem with IGA is he is COMPLETELY hit or miss. Either he totally nails it, and makes an awesome game, (AoS, OoE) Or he fails spectacularly. (DoS, PoR, CoD)
I guess that could be subjective too, since even "failed games" like CoD & DoS have their own fans that place them as their favorites in the series.

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And the root cause is he relies too much on gimmick driven gameplay.
So far the LoS series relies too much on QTE's and scripted gameplay elements, which is why it's always drawing comparisons to God of War, but worse. And I'm afraid LoS2 will feature the same exact stuff, albeit with a tad more "freedom" but who knows.

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Also, he is WAY too reliant on asset reuse.
Perhaps, but OoE had a lot of new assetts compared to it's predecessor. Harmony of Despair was an experiment that was like "lets see what we could do with what we have already made," and according to the reports sales-wise, it was still successful.

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It's not that he CAN'T make a good game, it's just that it's best not to gamble on him.
MoF was a complete gamble and they apparently lost. It would've been awesome if they had only added/fixed some things, put more meat to the bones. IGA & his team have experience at this point; I don't think they're bound to repeat the same mistakes they have made, and given the long hiatus it's been since a proper metroidvania, that's a lot of time for them to have come up with cool ideas that would have been refreshing on the 3DS.

Lets say if OoE had never been released on the DS, it was just DoS & PoR. Then they drop OoE for 3DS instead of MoF. OoE has those parallax backgrounds & stuff that would've really made use of the 3DS technology. How do you think fan reaction/reviews would have been? Better or worse than MoF's current status? Would critics complain about it's "dated graphics" and "tired music" and "terrible gameplay?" Chances are, polar opposite of MoF's reviews.

This post makes it seem like I'm bashing MoF but that's not necessarily true; I just lament that it could've been so much more than it is, it could've blown all 3 DS CV's out of the water. I hate to draw constant comparisons with MoF to OoE but being that they're both the latest portable CV games from 2 different developers, it's hard not to point out the differences on what ultimately "works for Castlevania" and what doesn't. MS could've convinced people like me that we no longer need an "igavania" or "metroidvania," but even with fans like myself that enjoyed MoF, it's still not enough & makes me wish for more. Just a missed opportunity :/

Offline C Belmont

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Re: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow - Mirror of Fate 3DS (Discussion Thread)
« Reply #5427 on: March 17, 2013, 06:04:39 PM »
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How OOE was a "step in the right direction" eludes me constantly, I keep hearing people say how great it was but no matter how hard I look I just don't see the potential they see in it.

Offline e105beta

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Re: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow - Mirror of Fate 3DS (Discussion Thread)
« Reply #5428 on: March 17, 2013, 06:23:04 PM »
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How OOE was a "step in the right direction" eludes me constantly, I keep hearing people say how great it was but no matter how hard I look I just don't see the potential they see in it.

I'd have to agree with this.

I've always replayed Metroidvanias at least once because there was always that "one weapon" or that "one soul" that eluded me my first playthrough that I really wanted to get the second time around. Like a donkey and a carrot, Metroidvania's get you to play it by offering one more thing, and it gets you to ignore the mediocre/sub-par/god awful level design (see "MMORPG")

OoE had decent level design, but it was ruined by the repetitive locales and long hallways. It also had typical mash buttons Metroidvania combat, perhaps even more so than its predecessors. But what killed it for me was that it had far less collectible draw than its older brothers, especially considering half of the glyphs didn't even matter in the long run. Obviously I'm only speaking for myself here, but I had no desire to touch the game after beating it once. I just opened up Albus mode, ran into a room, killed some zombies, and realized just how shallow the game was when there were no carrots to find.

Neither Julius mode DoS or Richter mode SotN had even close to that effect on me.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2013, 06:24:48 PM by e105beta »

Offline crisis

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Re: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow - Mirror of Fate 3DS (Discussion Thread)
« Reply #5429 on: March 17, 2013, 06:28:07 PM »
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Well do you consider OoE a bad game worthy of a 2.0 out of 10 score? Did you enjoy it more than PoR? Do you find the graphics better than PoR's?

For many, OoE did a lot of things right than it did wrong; where PoR made use of a lot of decade-old sprites & the like, OoE made entirely new ones. OoE's pacing is a lot different and better than PoR's, according to some people. The artstyle in OoE is a lot more appropriate for Castlevania than PoR's. The boss-fights were more exciting & engaging than PoR's. The narrative and script was more refreshing and mature than PoR's "Saturday-morning cartoon" approach.

Things like that is what makes people consider OoE a "step in the right direction." At least from my understanding. It's entirely subjective but those aspects I listed seem to be the most common from what I've read over the years.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2013, 06:33:44 PM by crisis »

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