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Offline X

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Re: History in Egypt: Prez. Mubarak resigns
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2011, 06:58:57 PM »
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Anyway... I don't know if that really answers your question or not. Guess you'd have to be a little more clear on what writings you mean and such.

I'll try to clarify so bare with me...here goes. Before the bible was printed in a book (300 hundred years prior), Jesus' disciples wrote everything down on scrolls (The Jesus scrolls or the Dead Sea scrolls). These scrolls contained all the scriptures that exist in the bible including passages not included in the Bible (the missing 44 volumes). These scrolls are being translated and put online even as I write this so it shouldn't be too long before we can have full access to them. The bible itself is a single book and a big one at that, but the information contained within, with the inclusion of the 44 missing volumes would've filled several books. I won't say why the Church didn't include them as I don't want to offend you (I'm adamant that way  :)), but as a firm believer in your faith you might want to check this out and see for yourself.

But getting back to the crisis in Egypt, it seems that the people are on a big strike right now. I'm not sure if the military's doing anything about it or causing it.

-X

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Offline Harrycombs

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Re: History in Egypt: Prez. Mubarak resigns
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2011, 07:20:49 PM »
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Jesus' disciples wrote everything down on scrolls (The Jesus scrolls or the Dead Sea scrolls). These scrolls contained all the scriptures that exist in the bible including passages not included in the Bible (the missing 44 volumes).



The Dead Sea Scrolls only include the Hebrew bible, they have nothing to do with Jesus.

Also, there are some contradictions within Christianity. Specifically, Jesus did not actually fulfill all of the prophecies in the Torah. Christians will argue that during the second coming he will complete the rest of the prophecy, while the Jews of course believe he was never the messiah. And then there is the whole question of the authenticity of any of the Gnostic gospels... If the Gospel of Judas is true, then the accepted Biblical story may be pretty far off. The origins of Christianity are so interesting.

The dream reveals the reality, which conception lags behind. That is the horror of life - the terror of art.

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Re: History in Egypt: Prez. Mubarak resigns
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2011, 08:47:45 PM »
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The Dead Sea Scrolls only include the Hebrew bible, they have nothing to do with Jesus.

Jesus is a Hebrew. Born in Bethlehem, Jerusalem which also makes him a Jew. Jesus has everything to do with the Jesus scrolls which is why they are called as such. Also Jesus' real name; Yeshua Ben Yosef. In Hebrew, Yeshua means "Salvation".

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Offline Mooning Freddy

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Re: History in Egypt: Prez. Mubarak resigns
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2011, 11:33:23 PM »
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The dead sea scrolls according to what I know are referred to as "External books", i.e. ancient scrolls written by Jews and were not included in the Bible (the old testament).
Those who know the bible well, know that the historical documentations described in the bible end around the Period of construction of the 2nd Temple. Any further misadventures of the Jews in the Holy land were documented by different authors, some scriptures accepted by Jews as their history, while others were not.

I don't know much about the gospel of Judas, but according to what I heard, I think that Christians should accept some of it to their teaching and beliefs.
The history of violence by the Church, especially against the Jews is partly (or mainly?) because of its description of Judas Iscariot as an evil person without any morals, the greatest traitor known to mankind. The demonification of Judas and making him a metaphor for all the nations who were unwilling to accept Christianity, led to centuries of violence, something that Jesus, as you remember, was opposed to.
On the other hand, didn't the New Testament claim that Jesus loved Judas, even more than his other disciples? Didn't Jesus know that he's in grave danger, that the Jews dislike him and that the Romans want his head? Didn't he know that he's about to die at the cross?
He did, probably. Furthermore, he knew that he needed to sacrifice himself to become a martyr. So perhaps Judas' betrayal was not a betrayal altogether, but just a part of Jesus' masterplan? So if Judas was merely Jesus' tool, how does that make him evil? That is something that should be reconsidered.

How was that turned from a topic about Egypt to a topic about religion?  :-X
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Offline X

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Re: History in Egypt: Prez. Mubarak resigns
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2011, 11:42:40 PM »
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Politics and religion go hand-in-hand sometimes.

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Offline Abnormal Freak

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Re: History in Egypt: Prez. Mubarak resigns
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2011, 03:17:09 AM »
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The Dead Sea Scrolls only include the Hebrew bible, they have nothing to do with Jesus.

Jesus is a Hebrew. Born in Bethlehem, Jerusalem which also makes him a Jew. Jesus has everything to do with the Jesus scrolls which is why they are called as such.

Precisely. Jesus was a Rabbi. He taught in synagogues. He had disciples. Even those who did not believe him to be who He said He was (the Messiah; the Son of God; one with the Father) called him Teacher.

The dead sea scrolls according to what I know are referred to as "External books", i.e. ancient scrolls written by Jews and were not included in the Bible (the old testament).

The Dead Sea Scrolls contain all manner of texts, biblical and nonbiblical. People have actually been able to cite the accuracy of Old Testament translations over the centuries based on copies from as far back as around 400 BC. Some translations got a little wonky from time to time, with a misread and thus miswritten word or Hebrew/Aramaic character, and there have also been many variations of Hebrew and Aramaic written form (languages change over time, after all), but with all the various written out forms of biblical passages studied, they've come out very precise with current translations; again, with some very small exceptions that don't alter the overall meaning of a passage (though have made a small handful of sentences rather unclear in their meaning which are now being understood and rectified for future translations and updated versions of current translations).

There are even Torah passages; within the Dead Sea Scrolls (which are so incredibly numerous and still many are being discovered with attempts to take care of them) lies the oldest known surviving copy of the Ten Commandments. It's not the full passage, but it dates back to around 400 BC if I'm remembering right.

I won't say why the Church didn't include them as I don't want to offend you

Please do. I mean, not the offending me part as a deliberate action :p (though you can do that if you wish), but I firmly believe in civil discourse and people making known our thoughts to one another.

There's a lot of other stuff here in these responses I could reply to, but I wonder where all exactly it would lead, and what purpose it would serve?
« Last Edit: February 16, 2011, 03:22:05 AM by Abnormal Freak »
Oh yeah, and also:
meat

Soda as well.

Offline Harrycombs

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Re: History in Egypt: Prez. Mubarak resigns
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2011, 02:11:16 PM »
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The Dead Sea Scrolls only include the Hebrew bible, they have nothing to do with Jesus.

Jesus is a Hebrew. Born in Bethlehem, Jerusalem which also makes him a Jew. Jesus has everything to do with the Jesus scrolls which is why they are called as such. Also Jesus' real name; Yeshua Ben Yosef. In Hebrew, Yeshua means "Salvation".

-X

The Dead Sea Scrolls are older than Jesus. So while there are prophecies, it obviously can't directly refer to the historical Jesus of the new testament. He wasn't born yet for another couple centuries. Thats Why I said they have nothing to do with Jesus. It obviously cannot include Jesus' newer teachings if he wasn't born yet.

Also, if the non-canonical Gnostic gospels are true, then it would suggest that the entire Hebrew bible is a lie created by the Demiurge anyway, and Jesus was resisting him and was sent by the true Supreme Being...  :-\
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Re: History in Egypt: Prez. Mubarak resigns
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2011, 11:40:40 AM »
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Jesus is a Hebrew. Born in Bethlehem, Jerusalem which also makes him a Jew. Jesus has everything to do with the Jesus scrolls which is why they are called as such. Also Jesus' real name; Yeshua Ben Yosef. In Hebrew, Yeshua means "Salvation".

I need to take back that part of my reply now that I remember something that slipped my mind while writing it. The Dead sea scrolls and the Jesus scrolls are two different works. The Jesus scrolls are what the Disciples used to write down all the teachings of Christ including the missing volumes. The Dead sea scrolls are of a much older work and they also belong to a set which include the Copper scrolls (Just recently discovered) and the still missing, Silver scrolls. So yes Harrycombs, you're correct. Thanks for helping me remember.  ;)

-X
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