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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => Hardcore Gaming 101 => Topic started by: X on July 19, 2021, 10:14:22 AM

Title: Metroid: Dread
Post by: X on July 19, 2021, 10:14:22 AM
Well the game's release date is just around the corner. https://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/metroid-dread-switch/ (https://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/metroid-dread-switch/)

Personally I don't care for the melee attack returning (and I really hope that a segment like the Diggernaut chasing you across the map does not make a comeback), but I'll pick this up since I did buy my Switch with this game in mind. I had thought that Retro studios was doing this but apparently MercurySteam was once again contracted for the job. They treated Samus respectably with their remake of Metroid II so hopefully we see it here too. I'm also hoping that Yoshio Sakamoto hasn't pulled any of that Other M garbage. The man needs to know when he's made a mistake and not repeat it.
Title: Re: Metroid: Dread
Post by: JR on July 19, 2021, 08:31:31 PM
Can't wait to play this one. Feels weird getting excited over a MercurySteam game, but Samus Returns was lots of fun.
Title: Re: Metroid: Dread
Post by: Inccubus on July 21, 2021, 03:28:34 PM
For me Samus Returns doesn't hold a candle to AM2R.
Still after decades of Dread nearly being an urban legend, I'm psyched to play it.

@X: I heard they tweaked the melee attack thingy to make it more optional or some such. I wasn't a fan of it either.
Title: Re: Metroid: Dread
Post by: X on July 22, 2021, 09:52:30 AM
Inccubus@

I read about that too. That's the only thing that's making it somewhat acceptable. Samus can now move while performing a melee attack rather then stand in one spot.
Title: Re: Metroid: Dread
Post by: Inccubus on August 19, 2021, 12:58:36 PM
I'm really curious what direction they are taking the story.
Title: Re: Metroid: Dread
Post by: zangetsu468 on August 21, 2021, 12:42:19 AM
I'm really curious what direction they are taking the story.

New trailer out explaining it
Title: Re: Metroid: Dread
Post by: PFG9000 on August 24, 2021, 10:14:41 AM
I'm looking forward to Dread.  I had a pretty lukewarm reception to Samus Returns, possibly because I kinda hate MercurySteam after their Lords of Shadow nonsense, and possibly because it wasn't mindblowing like AM2R.  When a fangame blows the comparable official product out of the water, that says bad things about the official product.  But mostly the shitty level design and fully 3D graphics were not up to the standards of previous entries in the series.

But anyway, more Metroid is almost always a good thing, so I'll give Dread a chance.  I'm trying to avoid spoilers and I heard some of the later trailers gave away some bigger plot points, so I've avoided everything after the initial announcement and gameplay footage.
Title: Re: Metroid: Dread
Post by: zangetsu468 on August 26, 2021, 01:49:24 AM
I'm looking forward to Dread.  I had a pretty lukewarm reception to Samus Returns, possibly because I kinda hate MercurySteam after their Lords of Shadow nonsense, and possibly because it wasn't mindblowing like AM2R.  When a fangame blows the comparable official product out of the water, that says bad things about the official product.  But mostly the shitty level design and fully 3D graphics were not up to the standards of previous entries in the series.


Completely disagree with the above. I’m not saying SR isn’t better than AM2R, but the graphics and level design not being there is complete bullshit. It’s nearly identical to the source material and graphically, it looks fine on a 3DS. It’s Mercury Steam’s best work outside of the og CV:LoS, depending on how you rate that.

If anything the worst flaws of the game are the abilities that created a divisive fanbase (which is already very small in general, compared to most Nintendo franchises). The scanner was a terrible choice to give the player as the game started(it’s similar to the golden leaf in Mario 3D world, making the game too easy) even though the player doesn’t have to use it. The parry system which I personally like, was overused, however it gives a new dimension to the boss fights, more like an improved version of the melee attack in Other M. The difficulty with the inclusion of Fusion Mode was a decent challenge (yeah you need the Metroid Amiibo, but it’s one of the best goddamn amiibos out there). For me personally, it’s the best official Metroid game release in years and the fact Dread’s engine is based off of it is saying something.
Title: Re: Metroid: Dread
Post by: X on August 26, 2021, 10:29:26 AM
Quote
It’s nearly identical to the source material and graphically

The way the maps are laid out is identical to the original, yes, but the 3D graphics don't match for the most part. Also things in the remake were looking way too advanced and still functional rather then the original which was far more primitive, ruinous and dilapidated, successfully showing us a long-since abandoned world. The doors that you destroy in the original game is just once cited example of this change in the remake (not including the unnecessary Ridly fight at the end). AM2R was far closer to the original in terms of design. And despite adding a whole shwack of new things they managed to keep ruinous look intact, and the graphics themselves were awesome to look at. The only thing that bothered me about AM2R was their over-usage of the speed booster item. It just doesn't translate well on a keyboard. And depending on the controller you're using it can be very clunky. I'd rather that item was left out of the game. It worked for Super Metroid but only because they never over-emphasized its usage (unlike Fusion and Zero Mission, ugh!). They kept it simple and it was fine.
Title: Re: Metroid: Dread
Post by: zangetsu468 on August 26, 2021, 07:00:33 PM
The way the maps are laid out is identical to the original, yes, but the 3D graphics don't match for the most part. Also things in the remake were looking way too advanced and still functional rather then the original which was far more primitive, ruinous and dilapidated, successfully showing us a long-since abandoned world. The doors that you destroy in the original game is just once cited example of this change in the remake (not including the unnecessary Ridly fight at the end). AM2R was far closer to the original in terms of design. And despite adding a whole shwack of new things they managed to keep ruinous look intact, and the graphics themselves were awesome to look at.

I totally agree with SR388 being an operational planet, seeming out of place. I get why that non-primitive aspect would totally grate with a Metroid fan. However, that’s really more of a lore or utilitarian aspect narrated by physical interaction, as opposed to ‘level design’, specifically. Let’s call them ‘environments’ vs levels, for the sake of argument.

I agree that in terms of environments (illustrating both narrative and aesthetic) a functional planet, presented cleanly and crisply, with running water, brimming with organic life etc doesn’t suit the context of Metroid II’s events. Although I like the idea of having a ruined planet and reactivating the chozo warps, as chozo ruins, artefacts and technology appear to survive all but a planet’s destruction.

Tbh Nintendo does these little shits and bits in new releases (like they did with Zelda MM 3d, with deleting the Triforce symbology from certain parts of the game, specifically Stone Tower) which if I am hung up on the source material, does bother me to an extent. However, in this case, I believe the choices were to do with efficiency and cost-saving, since they went completely 3D anyway.
Title: Re: Metroid: Dread
Post by: X on August 26, 2021, 10:33:37 PM
Quote
Although I like the idea of having a ruined planet and reactivating the chozo warps, as chozo ruins, artefacts and technology appear to survive all but a planet’s destruction.

This was a nice option actually. Considering how much larger the world was despite the map being nearly identical, its internal composition had been greatly increased. So it does make sense to enact some sort of warping device to allow for fast travel which helps to cut down on the amount of time spent in-game.
Title: Re: Metroid: Dread
Post by: zangetsu468 on August 27, 2021, 08:11:37 AM
https://youtu.be/V_XnbTayTH4

Latest trailer looks damn epic, honestly.
Title: Re: Metroid: Dread
Post by: X on August 27, 2021, 09:55:17 AM
Okay! Now I have even more questions! Clearly we saw Kraid in there unless it was another of his species since he died several games ago. And that Chozo warrior wearing the same type of power armor as Samus. I really need to get this game...
Title: Re: Metroid: Dread
Post by: zangetsu468 on August 29, 2021, 07:36:53 PM
Okay! Now I have even more questions! Clearly we saw Kraid in there unless it was another of his species since he died several games ago. And that Chozo warrior wearing the same type of power armor as Samus. I really need to get this game...


Okay! Now I have even more questions! Clearly we saw Kraid in there unless it was another of his species since he died several games ago. And that Chozo warrior wearing the same type of power armor as Samus. I really need to get this game...

Pure Speculation:
- Samus will get her powers stripped at the beginning of the game, giving her the Blue Suit
- Chozo Warrior uses those powers and you fight him several times like Nemesis / Girahim
- Chozo guy’s consciousness is linked to The X and Ridley (Neo Ridley was previously destroyed in Fusion, with the Core-X escaping his body on defeat). Since this is apparently
(click to show/hide)
- Chozo guy is either their king, the lineage of their God/ king or had to do with raising Samus.

But it’s just a theory…….
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Metroid: Dread
Post by: X on August 30, 2021, 09:51:22 AM
Quote
But it’s just a theory…….
 (click to show/hide)

Had fun there didn't ya  :D

I did read in an interview that Samus' original suit is apparently reconstituting itself which is why the fusion suit doesn't look like it does in Metroid Fusion.

-update-

Huh. I had no idea that it was still in the works:

'Sorry, no more word on Retro Studios' first-person Metroid Prime sequel just yet. Nintendo and primary developer Retro Studios (who made the previous Prime games) are still "working hard" on the game.

For more info, check out our guide to everything we know about Metroid Prime 4. Spoilers: it ain't all that much.'
Title: Re: Metroid: Dread
Post by: KaZudra on October 09, 2021, 06:10:04 PM
Metroid Dread is the worst good Metroid.
(click to show/hide)

Honestly, Fusion did 90% of this game's execution way better with vastly inferior hardware.
Title: Re: Metroid: Dread
Post by: X on October 09, 2021, 11:11:51 PM
That's all very disheartening... I'm not liking what I've just read. I hope -like Other M before it- that people will chime in and inform Nintendo about these questionable choices MercurySteam is making. I do NOT want QTEs in a Metroid game amongst the other aforementioned. That's not how Metroid is.
Title: Re: Metroid: Dread
Post by: zangetsu468 on October 10, 2021, 01:01:12 AM
That's all very disheartening... I'm not liking what I've just read. I hope -like Other M before it- that people will chime in and inform Nintendo about these questionable choices MercurySteam is making. I do NOT want QTEs in a Metroid game amongst the other aforementioned. That's not how Metroid is.


Although I’m refraining from any types of reviews (even the spoiler-free kind) I’m not clear on why Nintendo even needed MS to make this game.. Remember when Nintendo Licensed titles were actually made by… Well, Nintendo??? Hashtag Mindblown….  :o
Title: Re: Metroid: Dread
Post by: Bloo on October 10, 2021, 10:21:29 AM

Although I’m refraining from any types of reviews (even the spoiler-free kind) I’m not clear on why Nintendo even needed MS to make this game.. Remember when Nintendo Licensed titles were actually made by… Well, Nintendo??? Hashtag Mindblown….  :o

MercurySteam has a specific set of skills that Nintendo seems to really appreciate. I wouldn't be surprised if they're trying to make them a second-party dev like Retro.

I just finally got a playable rom + emu (have bought the game! just lost my switch in the time from preorder til now.) and I've piddled around in the first area. All I have to say so far is that the movement really feels perfect. I've heard that the level design doesn't encourage it anywhere near as much, but freedom to the degree of Super Metroid seems possible.
Title: Re: Metroid: Dread
Post by: Darkmoon on October 11, 2021, 03:20:12 PM
It's best to think of it as a sequel to Samus Returns, the remake. If that game thrills you, this one will provide more, and bigger, of the same. But anyone hoping for something more like Super Metroid, well, you needed Nintendo to work with a different studio on this one.
Title: Re: Metroid: Dread
Post by: Highwind Dragoon on October 11, 2021, 07:51:01 PM
Not really impressed with this.

Sure, it's better than Samus Returns, but Axiom Verge 1 & 2 are not only WAY BETTER, but better priced, as well. ($19.99 each)
Title: Re: Metroid: Dread
Post by: KaZudra on October 12, 2021, 10:57:39 AM
Metroid Dread.

The game you're casually presented to is not what represents this game.



Oh I really hate to do this but I gotta give this game it's justice now.

If you hate or find this game disappointing or mediocre, you're not alone. You're simply playing the game wrong and you're not alone.

Metroid Dread is a Masterpiece that has hidden itself in plain sight and if you find it and do the challenge to get to it early (HINT HINT).
The game wants you to break the rules, get stuff early, try everything on bosses, that platforming challenge that looks hard, go for it now not later.
I went for early Gravity Suit and it completely altered the second half of the game, the route was so much better and the pacing... top shelf.

Seriously, play the game again; looks up Early item guides, do the challenges to get them and you'll see it too. It really as if this game is really two games and how you're willing to play is which one you'll be playing.
Title: Re: Metroid: Dread
Post by: Highwind Dragoon on October 12, 2021, 08:30:04 PM
You can sequence break almost any metroidvania, though. (Hollow knight, Axiom Verge 1 & 2, Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night and  Record of Lodoss War: Deedlit in Wonder Labyrinth are just several examples.)

All of the games that I listed are not only cheaper, with a lower return on investment (and more enjoyable, IMO) than dread, they have several levels of difficulty for different playstyles. 

Also, Crowsworn is coming (eventually):

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1614330/Crowsworn/
Title: Re: Metroid: Dread
Post by: X on October 12, 2021, 10:54:02 PM
I just picked up Dread earlier on today.

They did it again. -_-;

MercurySteam doesn't know when to leave the analogue stick alone for 2.5D games. To add insult to injury we can't set the controls. Just like before. Fortunately however, using the stick on the Switch compared to the 3DS is far more forgiving. I've gotten rather comfortable with it and haven't been suffering too much. But I'd still rather use the D-pad for these types of games as that's what it's for.

The interview from Nintendo stated that they wanted to give the players a feeling of suspense with these EMMI robots. However that's not what's happening with me. All they're doing is annoying the piss outta me. Fusion did a better job of this and it wasn't nearly as irritating. At the very least, once they've been dealt with I don't have to worry about them anymore. This is probably where the game's difficulty is coming from; dealing with these f@#king EMMI bots. I've destroyed three so far and have defeated two bosses. I'll pick up my save file tomorrow and see what else awaits me.

Overall the game's not bad. It's shaping up to be better then Samus Returns, but it could've been better in some areas.
Title: Re: Metroid: Dread
Post by: zangetsu468 on October 13, 2021, 06:20:28 PM
The reality is that there’s not been a “Super-openworld-Metroid” for years… SR doesn’t count, ZM and Fusion weren’t that game, Other M wasn’t even close(Bottleship coupled with restrictive movement and invisible barriers everywhere), Prime 3 could’ve been but it was too segmented.. I would go so far to say that aside from Super Metroid,  Prime 2 felt like the most vast and expansive title to date.

I get why Dread wouldn’t be everyone’s cup-o-tea, given it borrows heavily from SR, however, being the same dev’s, the way the trailers looked, the gameplay sections seen in the trailer, please do not tell me anyone expected SM.
Title: Re: Metroid: Dread
Post by: BMC_War Machine on October 16, 2021, 06:57:12 PM
I'm liking it pretty well so far.  I'm up to Elun right now.  The only gripe i have so far is the way the missles/grapple beam control with r/zr.  Sometimes those get mixed up when i need them but that could be largely user error lol.  Overall i think it's a pretty solid game, not deserving of all the hate it gets.  I'm just thankful we have something besides the prime series for a change.  Now i'm ready for a Super Metroid remake with this engine.  That would be killer.
Title: Re: Metroid: Dread
Post by: X on October 17, 2021, 12:02:33 AM
Quote
Now i'm ready for a Super Metroid remake with this engine.  That would be killer.

Only so long as they keep the controls as they were in the SNES game. I'm against fixing things that aren't broken but not everybody will see it that way.

The bosses are becoming a real pain in the @$$ as my bro can attest to. They really want you to strategize in Dread like you had to in Samus Returns. This is another thing that MercurySteam is hung up on. This type of play style was never really a focal point in the original games. The only games that you needed to have a bit of strategy with was in the Prime series, and for those games that were in 3D it worked out as intended. But I personally feel it's not something that the 2D or 2.5D games should be making a habit out of. Another gripe that I've heard other people share is the over-usage on the speedbooster via puzzles/collections. Super Metroid had the right balance and never forced you to go through a frustrating amount of running, jumping, pin-point executing races in order to collect more items. If the game wasn't operating on a clock system to get the best ending then it wouldn't be such an issue. As I mentioned before it's a decent game but there are things about it that I would have seen developed differently in comparison to what we got.
Title: Re: Metroid: Dread
Post by: knightmere on October 26, 2021, 07:48:51 AM
Really enjoying this game, much like I enjoyed Samus Returns. I like the fact that the bosses require real strategy and aren't just missile sponges.  The graphics are amazing, the power suit looks absolutely stunning in this game! One thing that was missing in Samus Returns was the speed booster and that's now back and so is the shine spark!  The melee counter is back but the gameplay doesn't rely on it as much which is also an improvement.  The only real negative for me would be some of the music isn't all that interesting.
Title: Re: Metroid: Dread
Post by: X on October 26, 2021, 10:00:55 AM
I probably should've mentioned Samus' armor. it's not really behaving like armor should ie withstanding hits. Even with both suit upgrades I noticed Samus still taking heavy amounts of damage. Traditionally the Veria suit is supposed to reduce damage up at least 1/2 and the Gravity suit by another 1/4. I don't think MercurySteam understands what armor is actually for or how it works in-game. Even regular enemies' attacks are still very punishing.
Title: Re: Metroid: Dread
Post by: zangetsu468 on December 24, 2021, 06:04:23 PM
After finishing the initial play through (with no sequence breaks thus far) I really liked it.
As much as I like SR and appreciated the Metroid fights, this has more variety and maintains the dynamics of movement while implementing the party system for rewards and giving harder enemies invincibility after parry animations (meaning you have to “rush parry” before the animation happens and you cannot just lay back and wait). The final boss was especially rewarding.

I also like that some of the key items are spread around and there’s no map beacons that assist throughout, it’s more like NES / Super Metroid in that regard.

Doing a second play through now and I’m going to try and be unorthodox about it.
Title: Re: Metroid: Dread
Post by: zangetsu468 on February 13, 2022, 05:03:33 AM
DREAD MODE IS COMING WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT
Title: Re: Metroid: Dread
Post by: X on February 13, 2022, 09:27:51 AM
It's nice to know you're having fun with this game. To be honest I stopped and still haven't picked it up. That was months ago. I just feel I can't be bothered to make the effort. While the game looks good, the tid-bits that I've previously mentioned just don't suit Metroid in my mind. I'll have to wait and see what retro studios has in store for Prime 4. Maybe that game will garner more of my interest. It'll be another long wait but I'm used to it.
Title: Re: Metroid: Dread
Post by: zangetsu468 on February 13, 2022, 10:37:08 PM
It's nice to know you're having fun with this game. To be honest I stopped and still haven't picked it up. That was months ago. I just feel I can't be bothered to make the effort. While the game looks good, the tid-bits that I've previously mentioned just don't suit Metroid in my mind. I'll have to wait and see what retro studios has in store for Prime 4. Maybe that game will garner more of my interest. It'll be another long wait but I'm used to it.

It gets much more enjoyable on second play through and is refreshing that Sequence Breaks are encouraged.

When Dread Mode releases, I’m going to try and beat it with no upgrades.(missiles, e-tanks, etc)
Title: Re: Metroid: Dread
Post by: knightmere on March 06, 2022, 09:11:29 PM
It gets much more enjoyable on second play through and is refreshing that Sequence Breaks are encouraged.

When Dread Mode releases, I’m going to try and beat it with no upgrades.(missiles, e-tanks, etc)
You are absolutely right about the second play through being much more enjoyable. Speed running and sequencing breaking are so much fun in Dread. There are some truly epic boss battles in this game. Looking forward to the upcoming Boss Rush mode next month!
Ore
Title: Re: Metroid: Dread
Post by: zangetsu468 on March 09, 2022, 03:59:25 PM
You are absolutely right about the second play through being much more enjoyable. Speed running and sequencing breaking are so much fun in Dread. There are some truly epic boss battles in this game. Looking forward to the upcoming Boss Rush mode next month!
Ore

It gets even better with Dread mode.
Doing the upgrade-less run and killed the first boss, very satisfying indeed.
Title: Re: Metroid: Dread
Post by: PFG9000 on April 10, 2022, 11:02:03 AM
Completely disagree with the above. I’m not saying SR isn’t better than AM2R, but the graphics and level design not being there is complete bullshit. It’s nearly identical to the source material and graphically, it looks fine on a 3DS. It’s Mercury Steam’s best work outside of the og CV:LoS, depending on how you rate that.

Sorry it took me so long to reply...I don't come around here as often as I'd like to and forgot to check back in on this thread.

The level design of Samus Returns is nowhere near identical to Return of Samus.  The general world structure is, but the individual areas have mostly new layouts.  The problem I have with Samus Returns's level design is that it's too labyrinthine.  Without looking at outside material, can you picture in your mind the main route through the world?  It's just too full of cramped morphball tunnels and twisting corridors.  Usually in Metroid games, and certainly in Return of Samus, there is one main hallway running through the world, connecting the different regions.  It may loop back on itself to link you up with an earlier area.  And there are likely a shit-ton of side-routes you can take with all sorts of cramped mazes...but the main route is there for you to run through, at least after you've collected the necessary movement upgrades.

Samus Returns messes this up.  The twisting tunnels ARE the main route.  You can't travel from one end of the world to the other without navigating all sorts of morphball puzzles, grapple obstructions, etc.  It's annoying, and it makes it harder to mentally map your route through the world.

As far as the graphics go, Samus Returns is...alright.  I'll always take pixel art over bland 3D models, but maybe that's just a personal choice.  It's a common criticism of the game though.  And one thing that AM2R has easily over Samus Returns is the individuality of the various areas.  Much of Samus Returns looks the same.  AM2R had easily distinguishable areas...just like most other Metroid titles, and most good Metroidvanias.
Title: Re: Metroid: Dread
Post by: zangetsu468 on April 16, 2022, 06:50:00 PM
Sorry it took me so long to reply...I don't come around here as often as I'd like to and forgot to check back in on this thread.

(click to show/hide)

Despite the proverbial input lag of this response, the lack of interconnectedness and useless of the teleportation system in SR (barring one or two of the locations) was a gripe I addressed in the detailed review I posted some time ago.

I’d also like to point out I personally don’t consider Metroid games as metroidvania’s, because they’re Metroid games. Even if influenced by contemporary games, Metroid held that mantle and all but defined and influenced other franchises to the point where it’s own names has been inserted into a genre-type, since SOTN days.
Title: Re: Metroid: Dread
Post by: X on April 16, 2022, 11:07:10 PM
PFG9000@

Now that you brought it up I can see the argument. The beauty of pixel art leaves lots to the imagination, and through it we get a kaleidoscope of colorful areas very from one point to the next. This is lacking in both SR and Dread. The backgrounds seem fine, but the foreground seems to be virtually unchanged from one area to the next. I wonder what a Metroid game from WayForward would look like...