Topic: Konami: "Taking risks with CV prevented it from becoming another Megaman"

[crisis]

Konami: Dracula X Chronicles, Adventure ReBirth, and Mirror of Fate didn't meet our sales expectations. Therefore, '2D Castlevania' is no longer profitable, and it's the fans' fault.

[VladCT]

...and it's the fans' fault.

Well, don't that sound familiar?

[Kingshango]

Konami: Dracula X Chronicles, Adventure ReBirth, and Mirror of Fate didn't meet our sales expectations. Therefore, '2D Castlevania' is no longer profitable, and it's the fans' fault.

Joking aside, I have no doubt that Konami probably thinks this and oddly enough, they are reportedly satisfied with MoF's sales. Guess they weren't expecting much and kept their target sales expectations low.

[Odile Kuronuma]

I'm looking forward for a 2D Castlevania made by Vanillaware. I'm pretty sure it will sell, especially if it has Succubus in it 

[Nagumo]

Joking aside, I have no doubt that Konami probably thinks this and oddly enough, they are reportedly satisfied with MoF's sales. Guess they weren't expecting much and kept their target sales expectations low.

Source? 

Anyway, Uzo was spot on with his comment. I feel the exact same way. Cox sure is a defensive person, isn't he?

[Ratty]

The comparison between SotN has been made lots of times, but I don't think it's comparable because it took one thing from one game. And it didn't splurge all changes in one single game.

Also, SQ was already a "proto Metroidvania" long before SotN.

I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't borrow ideas from others. That is inevitable in all forms of art and entertainment. But I think you should iron out the details and make it work for the established style instead of the other way around. And not just take things all around, knowing they're from games that have done commercially better than Castlevania.

Don't forget "Vampire Killer" on the MSX, which was a lot like Simon's Quest before Simon's Quest. And iirc may have actually been the first "Castlevania" game to be developed, releasing so close to CV1 we're not sure who at Konami nicked sprites etc. for a new game from whom.

Konami: Dracula X Chronicles, Adventure ReBirth, and Mirror of Fate didn't meet our sales expectations. Therefore, '2D Castlevania' is no longer profitable, and it's the fans' fault.

Everybody wants a CoD these days, no one is satisfied with a loyal and reliable if relatively small source of renewable income. It's like they're stamping their feet down and saying "I don't want a dog! If I can't have an elephant then I just won't have any pets!" good luck with that long term business strategy.

[Kale]

*Ahem* Screw Cox and his lies. You and your QTE ridden game! Way to screw the game. And copying games on top of that... colossus type enemies? ... Didn't even do a good job of it.

Sigh, at least the art was good.

[darkwzrd4]

Here's what happened:

CV series = Dracula in 1999
Cox and MS = Julius Belmont and company in 1999

Julius Belmont and company permanently kill Dracula in 1999 just as Cox and MS killed the CV series with what they did to it. Dracula is then reincarnated and is currently completely different from who and what he was just as the CV is currently completely different from what it was.

I think the analogy is accurate.

[Ahasverus]

Well at least all signs point to Eidos to be shut down by Square-Enix so perhaps Konami may aquire the studio and let them work on the series? please?

And no Cox, you didn't save anything, CV was a niche BUT respected franchise, now it's kinda niche and frowned upon. Does that make you satisfied?

[Flame]

*Ahem* Screw Cox and his lies. You and your QTE ridden game! Way to screw the game. And copying games on top of that... colossus type enemies? ... Didn't even do a good job of it.

Sigh, at least the art was good.

*Ahem* Screw IGA and his blasphemy. You and your bishounen ridden game! Way to screw the game. And copying games on top of that... Metroid type gameplay and item progression? ... Didn't even do a good job of it.

I hope you see why that sounds childish?

I don't get why people rag on LoS for being derivative, when SoTN did it too. So did Simon's quest. (except Simon's quest actually had deathtraps despite it) Vampire Killer was the game that managed to include RPG and Open world elements without feeling derivative. (And we might never know if it was inspired by Metroid, since despite being of the same year, they came out a few months apart, with metroid coming out first.) Simon's quest similarly, did not feel like it copied metroid, since it still followed classicvania gameplay despite being open world like metroid. And it's RPG elements were also pretty different from what Metroid did.

But SoTN? that just screams Super Metroid. Right down to item progression. the RPG elements extended really only to what you were wearing or using as a weapon, as well as how strong you were and such, but actual powers followed a pretty Metroid fashion of acquirement. And you had similarities as a result. The move that gives you a moon jump, the move that makes you an untouchable death object, the move to get you through tight spaces...

The map screen was almost identical as well in presentation.

The point is, every game is going to have some derivation. Games that give you a stage select for example, can thank Mega Man for that. Use a whip? Hi Indiana Jones/Castlevania. Hack n' Slash? God of War hardly invented it.

were the Titan fights a bit too obvious? Yep. That doesn't automatically make it a bad game because they lifted an idea from another game and implemented it.

I mean, CV2 stole Ravenloft's cover art, even, because they liked the way it looked, and added Simon. Hos is that not just as blatant? Doesn't make CV2 a bad game. (insert joke about it being a bad game here)

QTE's? I'm not a fan of them. But LoS implemented them better than most games. Mostly relegated to finishers for bosses, or enemies, (and you could ignore using finishers on enemies if you wanted) All because it uses things that many games nowadays have, doesn't automatically make it a bad game JUST because it did so.

TL;DR, there's no need to hate the game so venomously for emulating ideas and gameplay types from other games when CV is no stranger to doing so prior.

And no Cox, you didn't save anything, CV was a niche BUT respected franchise, now it's kinda niche and frowned upon. Does that make you satisfied?

Niche is not something that always works for a company. Niche eventually dies. They could just keep making games for the small audience that buys them, but let's look at the bigger picture:

it's obvious IGA tried to make the most of pre-existing assets so as to save money. As time goes on, if one game isn't received well, Konami might give him LESS money. Eventually, Konami might think it's just not worth the expense to serve a small niche audience, and then CV would die.

Respected? Honestly? It's respected for being old, and that's about it. Just for being a classic. That doesn't mean everybody cares about it though. It lost it's mainstream gaming appeal years ago. Probably around the early 2000's. I would blame the move to the DS. By then it was obvious the budget had worn thin for CV. (as had the inspiration) And IGA's attempts to appeal to younger audiences fell flat not only with the younger audience, but with everyone else too. Aria was the last CV game I remember ever hearing any sort of anything for. After that I rarely heard about the new CV releases.

LoS, despite being divisive, at least gave the franchise a much needed boost. From there, Konami can keep whoring out giving out the license, and we can get different takes on the franchise, or maybe bring it on back home, and work on new CV games from their in-house depts. LoS will NOT be the new face of Castlevania, I'm pretty damn sure of that. You could probably consider it an intermediate time. CV is going through some soul searching before it can finally really settle itself back down and start churning out game after game again. Although, perhaps sticking with a continuity for too long could be part of the problem. newcomers get turned off by too much backstory. I think having different studios do their takes, would be the best bet for the franchise.

I would advice Capcom to do the same, but... They are still derping around wondering what to do with mega man, instead of doing SOMETHING.

[Ratty]

I don't think the main contention is that LoS is a poor game because it's derivative Flame, but that it's a poor Castlevania game because it's not derivative enough of the series who's name it carries. So much of a franchise is tied up not only in the story but also the atmosphere/genre and iconography. Some have noted that having a Castlevania without (a) medusa (heads) is a lot like having a Mario game without mushrooms for example. The classic music was disregarded (even disrespected outside of the game) and the horror elements were largely thrown away to make room for a more God of War, Lord of the Rings inspired "epic fantasy" feel.

So you had a game that didn't continue the story, have the look or sound of the original series using the name for brand recognition purposes only. Maybe the mainstream western audience of insecure 17 year old boys is turned off by the aesthetic of Japanese games. But you could have had a Castlevania game developed by a western studio that kept either the story, or the music, or more of the genre/classic horror elements of the aesthetic intact so that it would at least resemble what has historically been Castlevania. And while the subject is open, I'm not convinced that the diminishing sales during the DS era were a creative so much as a management problem. Of course elements were reused and quality suffered when Konami's mantra to the staff seemed to have been "Faster! Cheaper!". Add in zero promotion and I submit I think the old series didn't so much run out of steam as it was buried alive by mismanaging moneymen at Konami. A lot like Megaman is now at Capcom.

As a final argument for why the "Forget everything you thought you knew about X!" approach isn't necessarily the best one in the long term, I'll just leave this here.

(click to show/hide)

[beingthehero]

This makes me pine for IGA and his non-douchey interviews.

[Kingshango]

Cox is starting to remind me of Stan Smith during that episode of American Dad when the house got flooded and everything he did made each situation worse.

Cox is Nic Caging Castlevania.

[Ahasverus]

This makes me pine for IGA and his non-douchey interviews.

I just want to retire, please buy my game.

[Maedhros]

So Flame can see in SOTN Metroid elements but can't see the God of War/Uncharted/Shadow of Colossus in LoS?

EDIT: Nah, he can.