Topic: What drives you guys to live this life?

[Kale]

"More weight."

Giles Corey kept repeating that as he was being pressed to death in the 1692 Salem witch trials because he refused to be tried as a witch. If that guy had any fear of dying, he did a pretty flawless job of pretending he wasn't afraid.

As for "condemning" suiciders..I'd never dare be so goddamn arrogant. There are weak, unstable individuals in this world who kill themselves for petty things and might make it through if they got the help they needed. But there are people who have struggled to simply exist for years and have no other merciful way out than through their personal emergency exit.

You can't jump inside someone's mind and experience what kind of burdens and demons some hide. You can't know if you'd be any stronger in the god-awful scenarios fate throws at us randomly. That's why I'll never say shit like "all suiciders are weak cowards". Some are, but things are never black and white when it comes to this subject. It's not a beautiful, dramatic thing and I don't endorse it. But it's not my place (or anyone else's) to stack all who killed themselves in a neat little pile to point at self-righteously.

I have to say, Giles Corey is definitely one of the best examples of sticking to his principles.

Now, about condemning and judging suicides. Everyone's a judge. No matter how you like to say it, everyone judges everyone else, it might not seem like it because you don't do anything, but, you'll have an opinion. And You'll probably act (or not act) because that opinion.

I don't do anything about it, because I don't think it's my place to do anything about it. I'm very big on "it's your body, do what you like, as long as it does not affect me (and others around you)." But I still think it's weak. But like I said, or I thought I said, I still think it's weak. There are instances that I think it is fine, like sacrificing yourself for someone else, and even ideals, much like Giles Corey.

And you're right, I can't jump in their minds to know what they'll feel like. But since I can't, I make decisions on what I can see and understand. Who knows, I might even be someone who would break and commit suicide if something like that happens. I don't know. I doubt it though.

[A-Yty]

Of course I have an opinion. My opinion is that anyone's life is the only thing anyone really owns and if someone chooses to end it on their own terms, I'm no one to judge that decision by default. I try to see all sides of it instead of simply feeling superior to suiciders. There are so many ways this reality can rip and tear anyone's mind, soul and body apart that I'd find it insane to brand them all weak without blinking an eye. I think that if I did that I'd be following some misguided moral doctrine or whatever's been programmed into me to boost my ego if I did that.

What indeed is a wake up call to lots of people is when someone you love, care about deeply and/or respect, commits suicide. I wonder if sticking to that thinking helps them after that. Or if it makes them feel a better person in any way.

Lol, someone downvoted my original post 

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

Within the context of this thread, that sounds like a cop-out excuse to say dickish things with impunity.

I would think better than to assume that that's what members of this forum are doing.  I think higher than that of the lot of you.

EDIT: This response was to Opium's Dr.Seuss comment.

[Mooning Freddy]

I think it was Dr Seuss who said:

“Be Who You Are and Say What You Feel, Because Those Who Mind Don't Matter and Those Who Matter Don't Mind."

I believe it was Ephraim Kishon (Israeli author) who said:
"My country is a wonderful one, where everybody can say whatever he wants, and yet it doesn't mean anybody would give a damn."

[Kale]

Of course I have an opinion. My opinion is that anyone's life is the only thing anyone really owns and if someone chooses to end it on their own terms, I'm no one to judge that decision by default. I try to see all sides of it instead of simply feeling superior to suiciders. There are so many ways this reality can rip and tear anyone's mind, soul and body apart that I'd find it insane to brand them all weak without blinking an eye. I think that if I did that I'd be following some misguided moral doctrine or whatever's been programmed into me to boost my ego if I did that.

What indeed is a wake up call to lots of people is when someone you love, care about deeply and/or respect, commits suicide. I wonder if sticking to that thinking helps them after that. Or if it makes them feel a better person in any way.

Lol, someone downvoted my original post 

I don't know... when you have an opinion, and everyone will, it's already a judgement because they already act on it to some extent. Of course it doesn't have to be a sentencing or something really affecting, not that you can do much to someone who already committed suicide.

[X]

I can never judge someone for wanting to commit suicide. Never. Why? Because I know how they feel. The futility of how their lives seem to them, the emotions that run through their heads, the downward spiraling of negative thoughts and feelings that just push them right to the point where thought becomes action. I've contemplated suicide for well over 15 years. That's a f**king long time to want to kill one's self. And believe me I am really tired and exhausted of going back and fourth with those kinds of thoughts. It's extremely taxing to bring myself back under control after going into a downward spiral of negative thoughts  The only reason that I never went through with it is stated above in my first post. To kill myself is to start all my shit all over again and I refuse to push that damned reset button. I want to go to my true home where everyone's waiting for me, and the only way to do that is to live out mt life in it's entirety. Though that's not to say a life-threatening illness or accident might come along and take it from me prematurely. I'd be okay with that too as I am also a fatalist like my father was.

[A-Yty]

Within the context of this thread, that sounds like a cop-out excuse to say dickish things with impunity.

what

I don't know... when you have an opinion, and everyone will, it's already a judgement because they already act on it to some extent. Of course it doesn't have to be a sentencing or something really affecting, not that you can do much to someone who already committed suicide.

There's a smoke screen rising here. All I said was I don't simply consider every single suicider weak and cowardly by default. By "judging" I meant standing on, what I consider in this context, an imaginary higher moral ground by categorizing anyone who has taken his or her own life into a same, ugly group.

[Opium]

I had a friend who committed suicide.  I was really sad about it, then I get pissed off at her.  But the more I thought about it - I think she really knew what she was doing.  I kinda looked at her life and how bad it sucked, and I think I kinda understood where she was coming from in deciding to check out.  Her life really did suck ass - it wasn't just some chemical imbalance or some naive person feeling sorry for herself.  In a way, she kind of gave all of us a gift by making us feel better about our own lives.  I used to get really down and contemplate suicide, but I never did it anymore after I thought about her life.  Her life made mine look like a cake walk.
In high school she was really pretty and totally hilarious.  When she was around 20, she was engaged to this guy that she was really crazy about.  They were drinking and taking a bunch of prescription pills, and in the morning she woke up and found him dead next to her.  She never got over it.  She dove really hard into meth after that, and became a thief and a hooker.  She went on  like that for years and that funny lively person that she used to be just wasn't there anymore.  Her eyes were just dead - almost like she was a zombie.  The person she was when I met her was long gone.  Her teeth were all rotted out and she looked like she was about 50.  She had HIV and Hepatitis C to boot.  When she was 27, she was staying in her parents' garage and she shot herself in the head. 
So basically everytime I hear someone talking about suicide or being depressed, I compare that situation to hers and it almost always makes their problems look like nothing.  If someone is anywhere near being as bad off as she was, then I say they may have a point in offing themselves, but if not then I say just hang in there because shit almost always gets better.

[Kale]

X, what do you mean by comtemplating? There's thinking about it, then there's contemplating. Did you ever think that you might actually go through with it? I'm not saying this is your case, but there are a lot of foolish people who think their problems are the worst in the world, when it's clearly is not.

There's a smoke screen rising here. All I said was I don't simply consider every single suicider weak and cowardly by default. By "judging" I meant standing on, what I consider in this context, an imaginary higher moral ground by categorizing anyone who has taken his or her own life into a same, ugly group.

Not sure what you mean smoke rising, I'm not trying to flame anyone, or antagonize anyone. I'm just putting out mu thoughts on the matter. Like I said though, I don't consider everyone who consider suicide weak/cowardly either. But most people who do consider it, have pretty stupid reasons, imo when compared to so many others in trouble. Because a lot that consider suicide, don't even have to worry about living on. They probably get food, shelter, etc in comparison to one who's really suffering.

I definitely do not think myself above them, mainly because I don't know their exact circumstances, and I don't know myself what I'd do in such situations. I do believe and would like to think that they're problems aren't as bad as they really think. From what I can see, a lot seem foolish and rushed to "run" away.

[X]

X, what do you mean by comtemplating? There's thinking about it, then there's contemplating. Did you ever think that you might actually go through with it?

For me it was a little of both. The thinking would lead on to contemplating. But the funny thing is that there was always something near the end of that contemplation that put my thinking on a different track and I'd eventually stop thinking about suicide for a time. To me it sounds as if God had set up some kind of safety net so that I don't contemplate to the point of the 'thought' becoming 'action'. I have seriously considered taking my own life because I've always felt that my life is futile. I try to do things and I fail. I try to fit in and I fail. All my life it's been one failure after another and this has been one of the main kick-starters for my contemplating suicide. I also feel quite alone in the world despite the fact that I am a loner. And I feel that 'loner' and 'lonely' are of a different nature and having experienced both I can easily tell the difference. I don't know if this answer's your question or not but right now it's the best I can do.

[Kale]

No, that answers it well.

I'm sure everyone feels that way at one point or another. I feel like life is futile a lot of the time, but my thoughts on suicide, usually stops me from thinking of it any more than a joke of a thought. I also tend to think of all the other people who have it way worst than I do. As much as I "think" my life sucks, I know there are so many people in worst situation than me. Much like the saying, there's always a mountain higher quote, there's always someone in a worst situation. (Sorry, I can't remember the exact quote, and I believe I usually hear it in another language in any case.)

[X]

I thought the say was "There's always a bigger fish" But I guess it means the same thing  Don't worry, I get what you're trying to say. 

[TheouAegis]

I feel the opposite is true. If someone has a really crappy life, they just aren't looking ahead to getting out of the bad life and into a less bad life. If you are trapped in a horribly abusive relationship, kill your abuser (or just maim him/her and run away); the courts are lenient toward abuse victims. If you just got dumped, wait a couple years until you get dumped again before considering offing yourself. But the people who don't have anything worth killing themselves over are the ones who are the worst off, I think. They create their own Frankenstein's Monster, a homonculus of wretched self-loathing that takes on a will and mind of its own, haunting its creator, reminding him of the foulness that spawned such monstrosity, and driving him to madness. It's harder to escape from a pit you dug yourself than from a pit someone else dug.

But I always found it intersting that manyreligions condemn suicide. I think most Judeo-Christian sects say it's a direct ticket to Hell. Even more ironic, some aspects of bushido emphasize honorable suicide, yet Jigoku (Japanese hell) had a special place for people who killed themselves.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

what

Oh I hit "reply" without quoting.  I was directly talking about Opium's Dr.Seuss remark, not to any other remarks that happened in between.

[Abnormal Freak]

I took Opium's quote as being a response to what I was saying about some of my friends making me feel bad. That's how it seems, and I don't think she meant it as anything standoffish or trying to say, "I'll say what I want." :p I'm pretty sure she was telling me, "If they have a problem with you, maybe they're not really your friends."