Topic: Zelda General Discussion

[Ratty]

Was musing on Zelda when I noticed there wasn't a general discussion thread for the series, and thought that might need remedying. So here's a thread to post anything and everything related to the series if you want.
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So I got the book "Hyrule Historia" in the mail today, even though I'm not a huge Zelda fan I'm a sucker for artbooks and guides and got this one at a good discount on pre-order a while back. (Which gave me needed free shipping on a Christmas gift.) Anyway I was flipping through it and noticed that the official timeline had the longest "Subject to Change" message I can recall seeing.
Like 2 paragraphs just to say "The next game will change the timeline, deal with it please." Eiji Aonuma basically says in his afterward (which is written to be a forward, while Shigeru Miyamoto's forward feels more like an afterward) that the stories in each game are an afterthought. Even so one timeline related question interests me.

SPOILER if you've not beaten Twilight Princess.

(click to show/hide)

In the branch of the history in which Child Link defeats Ganon at the end of OoT, the really dark games in the series happen. These being Majora's Mask, Twilight Princess and the 4 swords Adventure games.
Since at the end of Twilight Princess it's hinted that Link is off to find a way back into the Twilight realm to reunite with Midna, do you think it's possible that he found a way back and this upset the cycle of reincarnation, causing his soul to be split into 4 parts on subsequent Adventures? I'd definitely bye a direct sequel to TP in which this happened, as long as there was a proper left-handed mode

More generally do you as a Zelda fan even care about the timeline? What do you like about the series, what do you dislike?

[Lashen]

The only Zelda game I've played more times than I can count is Adventure of Link.

[crisis]

I don't care about a Zelda timeline, since each game barely references each other, other than subtle references here n there that only hardcore fans will recognize.

Just started replaying Link to the Past on my PSP GO! the other night (i been wanting to mod my PSP GO! for a while, despite having a psphat modded for years. the GO! is just so small & lightweight and convenient for emulation. and yes i am one of the few that bought a PSP GO!) Despite all the awesome Zelda games over the years, LttP will always be the best in my eyes (and prolly in my "top 5 video games of all time")

[KaZudra]

Honestly, I think Zelda is a Game People think too hard to justify the Constant Recycling of characters.
I remember a thoery of all the People being a Parallel universe of Hyrule in MM, I interject with the fact that the game was made in 6 months and the time to draw new characters on a N64 at that time would have been a nightmare crunch.
As for the Timeline, the official one makes the most sense.

The Corrupted Fanbase is by far worst than everything except Sonic (that's the worst), get in an arguement with one of those assholes you'll wish nintendo goes under so you can laugh at them.

[Munchy]

Zelda is pretty cool. I even like the first two despite all their shortcomings. The newest one I've played is either Wind Waker or Majora's Mask.

Kinda wish Nintendo would make another one like Adventure of Link, but with more dungeon and world complexity, puzzles, tools, etc.

[KaZudra]

Kinda wish Nintendo would make another one like Adventure of Link, but with more dungeon and world complexity, puzzles, tools, etc.

not exactly what you asked for, but here ya go
http://www.indiegames.com/2009/01/freeware_game_pick_the_legend.html

[X]

That indiegame is clearly Zelda inspired and it looks cool! Can't wait for them to finish it. The greatest Zelda games are of the NES and SNES eras. The original Zelda, Adventures of Link, A link to the past ('Triforce of the Gods' in Japan), and Link's awakening. For me these four games ARE the official timeline and it was these games that helped define what the series and story was all about. The whole timeline mess didn't start until Ocarina of Time came out and then the stories just went all over the place from there. I honestly don't know what the creator of the series is thinking by skewing the stories up like this but hopefully he gets his head screwed on properly and starts to give us Zelda sequels rather then continuing to make prequels. I want to see what happens after The Adventures of Link.

[Kale]

There aren't any real time lines. It's just BS on BS, that the makers made up after the fact.

[PFG9000]

The greatest Zelda games are of the NES and SNES eras. The original Zelda, Adventures of Link, A link to the past ('Triforce of the Gods' in Japan), and Link's awakening. For me these four games ARE the official timeline and it was these games that helped define what the series and story was all about. The whole timeline mess didn't start until Ocarina of Time came out and then the stories just went all over the place from there. I honestly don't know what the creator of the series is thinking by skewing the stories up like this but hopefully he gets his head screwed on properly and starts to give us Zelda sequels rather then continuing to make prequels. I want to see what happens after The Adventures of Link.

Wow, this is almost exactly how I feel.  I've never really enjoyed a Zelda after Link's Awakening.  Those first four are fantastic, and somehow the magic was just completely lost after that.  I've spent several hours each on Oracle of Seasons, Minish Cap, and Wind Waker, but I really didn't care for any of them.  I've finally beaten Ocarina of Time, which I only thought was okay.  (I respect the depth and length of the game, but it really doesn't have the fun factor of the first four for me.)

However, I attended a performance of The Legend of Zelda: Symphony of the Goddesses last week, which was great.  They showed a lot of footage of the later Zeldas, which made me want to play Twilight Princess and Majora's Mask and give another chance to Wind Waker.  But I was disappointed at the lack of love for the original four games.  They barely even played the Legend of Zelda overworld theme throughout the whole show.  The only time they played it was in the last "movement," which was a Link to the Past medley.  And they played the Temple theme from Adventure of Link, which I appreciated, since I seem to like that game tons more than the average Zelda fan today.  But there wasn't a single selection from Link's Awakening, and nothing from the original Zelda unless you include the remix from the Link to the Past medley.  Absolutely unforgiveable.

[Aridale]

Majoras Mask is hands down my fav Zelda game. That games a true masterpiece and I doubt itll ever see an equal. That fangame looks like Link got pulled into Monster World

[RichterB]

I got the book, too. It's worth getting to take in the scope of the Zelda world, but it's a mixed experience for me.

Honestly, it's a lot different than what I expected. It largely focuses on the solely Nintendo-made games of Wind Waker and onward (up to Skyward Sword, which it really promotes in a big way). As an art book, it makes strange decisions of what it does and doesn't include, and what it highlights in bigger images. Some of the pinup work from Zelda 1 through Link's Awakening really deserves to be bigger than a couple of thumbnails big in size. A lot of great artwork from the games, particularly Minish Cap, are very much absent. As a history book, it's also surprisingly sparse and incomplete. It doesn't go into the development of each game in any level of detail similar to what was done in the Mega Man art books, and when it starts talking about character races/groups, they mention Subrosians but leave out the Tokays and Piratians. On the other hand, the tiny bits we get of unused locales and such, particularly for Majora's Mask, are very cool. The overall organization of the book feels a little scatter-brained to me. Really, besides promoting Skyward Sword, it feels the main thrust of this book is the timeline. It is a fascinating read, and some of it makes a lot of sense, but many times things feel like uncertain conjecture and not much different than a fan piecing together the series. All and all, it's an interesting read with a good overview of design work and production art, but it feels like a sampler compared to a definitive look at Zelda. I like that it gives you a sense of the series' scope, but I'm sad it doesn't highlight each entry in a more balanced manner. I get the impression it will impact newer fans of Zelda more so than older fans. One thought the book gave me was how much Wind Waker has affected the direction of the series' visuals. More games use that style than any other, it feels like. It must be said, though, that the production value of the book itself is as good as it gets.

As far as Zelda the series goes, it needs to start looking at Zelda 1 through Link's Awakening, becoming more open and balanced. The Medieval/Greco-Roman atmosphere of Zelda II would be really useful to look at, I think. I want the pure adventurer Link back, not the one who starts off as a farmer or a student or a train conductor. The series needs to cut to the chase of the adventuring more seamlessly, while introducing more unique items to find and implement across the lands. The Oracle games and The Minish Cap have been the best in this latter area with how fresh their mix of items has been.

I think that the Capcom games have been the best Zelda games post Majora's Mask, and have accounted for at least 85-90% of the series' positive innovations. Ironically, the recent DS entries, on the whole, have probably been more balanced than their console counterparts as of late. Even so, The Minish Cap is the last Zelda game I was completely satisfied with. It had some fitting twists and innovations on top of a good base.

It's hard to rank Zelda games, so I'll put them in tiers-->(I can't speak totally for the Four Swords games, as I haven't played them yet)

Tier 1: (The definitive titles)
The Adventure of Link
A Link to the Past
Link's Awakening
Ocarina of Time
Majora's Mask
Zelda 1

Tier 2: (Carry a strong legacy from the previous tier, balancing innovation with a classic adventure feel. Often underrated, and could conceivably challenge some of the above titles).
Oracle of Ages
Oracle of Seasons
The Minish Cap

Tier 3: (Solid games in their own right that come up short of the ideal).
Spirit Tracks
Phantom Hourglass
The Wind Waker
Twilight Princess
Skyward Sword

[Inccubus]

I still don't get the 3 way split off of OoT. I can see there being a split happening if Kid Link ends up going to an alternate dimension and isn't around to take out Ganon. But using the game over as an excuse to split the timeline is just odd. Although it would make it possible to create splits from every game it would be pretty lame.

[KaZudra]

I still don't get the 3 way split off of OoT. I can see there being a split happening if Kid Link ends up going to an alternate dimension and isn't around to take out Ganon. But using the game over as an excuse to split the timeline is just odd. Although it would make it possible to create splits from every game it would be pretty lame.

Its wierd but it goes such like
1. Link Dies in OoT -> LttP
2. End of OoT -> MM (child link present)
3. End of OoT -> WW (Since Link Sealed Ganon in the Future and Paradox'd himself from that timeline by tattle-telling to Zelda as a child at the end of OoT)

I actually See the story not as a timeline, but the same story told by Different people with their own twists much like how Legends really are, One man says the world flooded, one man says the Hero returns

[Inccubus]

I get the technical reasons why, I just don't think it was well presented in the game. And after watching this:

Zelda Part 3 - Did You Know Gaming? Feat. PeanutButterGamer

...it makes a hell of a lot more sense if there were originally 3 time periods planned.

[Nagumo]

I remember getting really excited when they announced the Hyrule Historia and that's just because I really timeline/continuity stuff. I guessed most of the timeline correctly. The only placements that I got wrong were Four Swords Adventures and the Oracle games, and of course the existence of a third timeline which was never mentioned before. 

Was anybody else disappointed in Skyward Sword? I really hated how there are only three areas in the game that you have to revisit three times. I like Twilight Princess way better.