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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: The Puritan on March 12, 2017, 11:17:41 PM
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They were outcasts pre-Dracula's Curse so either they settled somewhere remote or they were nomads and lived off wherever they wandered.
But what about afterward? Did they live among the people who shunned them or did they continue to live apart from them and show up as needed? Could they even have had a whole village to themselves ala Wygol? Some thoughts would be nice.
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They were outcasts pre-Dracula's Curse so either they settled somewhere remote or they were nomads and lived off wherever they wandered.
But what about afterward? Did they live among the people who shunned them or did they continue to live apart from them and show up as needed? Could they even have had a whole village to themselves ala Wygol? Some thoughts would be nice.
IGA stated that, upon Simon's victory over Dracula, a village started to build around the Belmonts, and that Juste grew up on this environment, being respected by the people thanks to the Belmont name. So yes, this could suggest that there was indeed a village formed with the intent to be next to the Belmonts due to respect and as their protectors.
However, previous to Juste and Simon, there's already the idea that the Belmonts are living amongst the people just fine. Christopher's legend already existed amongst the people by the time of Simon, for instance. Yet, Simon's story says that, until his victories, the people were not very friendly to the Belmonts at all, which is a strange thing considering they have saved the world three times now AND Christopher's got his own bitchin' legend. This could be a contradiction, OR could mean that the people forgot what the Belmonts did for them (which makes sense if you consider that, by Simon's time, Dracula's legacy is treated as merely a legend).
Simon's/Juste's story above may also mean that they started spreading their influence around. By Rondo's time, Maria and Annette live in the same town (Aljiba). Maria is distantly related to the Belmonts and is the daughter of aristocrats. While we don't know if Richter lived on Aljiba, this could mean that the village that formed around the Belmonts previously increased their local influence by quite a bit, with Belmont offshoots also spreading everywhere and holding positions of elite.
During Nocturne of Recollection we learn that the Belmonts even have rival clans now, which could further show that their influence by Richter's time is wide enough for clans to compete. This is also demonstrated by Shaft's assertion that the Belmonts are the strongest vampire hunters -- he had to learn that from somewhere, and I'm betting this comes from word of mouth of the people.
So, I'd say that, after Trevor's time they started being more accepted by the people, but their exploits did not live long as facts, being soon relegated to folk tales. This made the people ungrateful, but they didn't outright shun the Belmonts until Simon went and kicked Dracula's ass so hard that the people had no choice but to hail the Belmonts as heroes and form an entire village around them.
EDIT: Welp, I removed one citation about Dracula's legend. I distinctly remember one version of it saying something but now that I went to check, I couldn't find it. If I do, I'll cite it again.
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One would assume that they lived in a remote village such as Wygol, away from the prying eyes of society after CVIII. Being that the Belmonts were known to hunt monsters and such, but they are feared by regular Wallachians, it makes sense that they'd choose somewhere others wouldn't necessarily be able to intrude on or see what they were doing. Also as shown in OOE, not all of them were warriors, there would have been other relatives/ descendants who had different expertise and contributed in different ways.
I'm certain the Japanese manuals would hold more information, particularly with the older games. For instance, CV1's manual in Japanese mentions a the previous hero "Christopher" being celebrated in the context of a town/village (not an exact quote, so don't quote me word-for-word), and Simon having gone to face Dracula. Therefore one could say that this place was the town where at least the Belmont's direct bloodline and heir to the VK resided.
It also just occurred to me that in the English version of SOTN (the second best ending) Richter says something to Maria like "Let's go, everyone's waiting for us". If this is an acceptable translation, then we can assume they come from the same place.
In truth we can probably assume this anyway, given that in Rondo's first stage, the town of Aljiba has been set on fire and the track playing is suitably named "Opposing Bloodlines". Being that the women and Maria were kidnapped from the town, it's somewhat safe to assume they all hail from the same approximate location. Just my two cents.
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Sweden.
No, I do not have a reason for this.
But Sweden.
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Some remote Transylvanian place, guess.
Julius moved to Japan after 1999. Don't think an amnesic man can book a plane nor know anything about his real home.
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Some remote Transylvanian place, guess.
Julius moved to Japan after 1999. Don't think an amnesic man can book a plane nor know anything about his real home.
Or was he moved to Japan during his "memory loss" after leaving Castlevania victorious, via a third party knowing he would not recall his past? (Arikado could have done this for example, and is the only person out of the Sorrow Series who would have been at the battle of 1999)
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IGA stated that, upon Simon's victory over Dracula, a village started to build around the Belmonts, and that Juste grew up on this environment, being respected by the people thanks to the Belmont name.
Hey plot, just curious, but where did Iga say this? I've never seen it.
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Or was he moved to Japan during his "memory loss" after leaving Castlevania victorious, via a third party knowing he would not recall his past? (Arikado could have done this for example, and is the only person out of the Sorrow Series who would have been at the battle of 1999)
I dunno much. It might be, like how Soma drifted away in AoS, Julius might have drifet away, spawned in different place and didn't have any chance of meeting any of 1999 participants until AoS.
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Hey plot, just curious, but where did Iga say this? I've never seen it.
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FFLVBzMD.png&hash=0e96b7bafc2834714398127dbc3c75c8)
https://web.archive.org/web/20090402012951/http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=77052 (https://web.archive.org/web/20090402012951/http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=77052)
IGA has said that more than once, too.
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A village named Belmont.
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I wonder how many of them lived in the mountains.
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I wonder how many of them lived in the mountains.
Well, they made a whole goddamn village by Juste's time and in Rondo intro they seem pretty populated.
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They lived in Persia, obviously.
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IGA has said that more than once, too.
Interesting. I never knew about this either. Would've been cool to have playable Richter in the SOTN sequel and this Belmont village as a location. A proto-Wygol of sorts.
I wonder how many of them lived in the mountains.
Given plot's link, it could well have been a mountain village away from the larger Wallachia.
In DXC, Iris sounded pretty surprised at Richter being from the Belmont clan ("Belmont? Of THE Belmont clan?" or something). Almost like they were being regarded as a myth even in that era. That's how I got the impression that they were living away from the rest of the populace but were always at the ready for monster threats.
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Interesting. I never knew about this either. Would've been cool to have playable Richter in the SOTN sequel and this Belmont village as a location. A proto-Wygol of sorts.
I just feel that it might be important to iterate here that Wygol most likely did not exist by the time of Rondo. I understand the comparisons with Wygol but let's keep in mind that the chances for Wygol having existed by the time of Rondo are slim.
Wygol is kind of a miracle village of sorts.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20090402012951/http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=77052 (https://web.archive.org/web/20090402012951/http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=77052)
IGA has said that more than once, too.
Thanks for posting that man. Can you link me to that interview? Or any others where he said stuff about it? I guess I've missed some Of a interviews, really want to catch up.
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I don't want to derail this topic, but I have a query. Rondo starts in Aljiba, Simon's Quest starts in Aljiba. I know Rondo was a throwback to SQ, but is Aljiba supposed to be Simon Belmont's town?
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I think the Belmonts would have lived out of the way of prying eyes, but close enough that if there ever was a situation that required their duty, they were not far away to hear the peoples' plight.
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I don't want to derail this topic, but I have a query. Rondo starts in Aljiba, Simon's Quest starts in Aljiba. I know Rondo was a throwback to SQ, but is Aljiba supposed to be Simon Belmont's town?
Took me a week to remember, "You've arrived back here at Transylvania on business..." from SQ's intro. Which doesn't help much; it could mean he's from there as much as he isn't.
Then again, that's the English version.
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Aslo was I right in remembering that Wygol village had the last 2 belmonts liaveing in there, I was unsure cos after the whole loseing the whip. id have just moved far, far away until there ready to come back,
Also I really would love to know a reson why they lost the whip,
as I think its cos richter broke the blood convent with sera's soul. As we all know that anything to do with the count can draw out the worst in anyone heart, so I always thought that deep down he was sad that he was now useless, and there was no need for him. and I would not be shocked if shaft played on that and used that to take him over, thus his weakness was how shaft controlled him. And that's were the shame part comes in he left out of shame cos in fact what shaft did to him was true he did want to fight over, and over scard of become old and forgotten.
but the whip being sort of alive understood, as I think sera's soul loves them all like family, as she would have been leons child's mother so I think she made it possible to have a cooling off time, sort like to make them pure again
SO yeah that's my idea to why the Belmont's lost the whip, its may not be right, and it may not even be close,
but cos Richter became the master of the demon castle, others would have been doomed to become a vampire and other terrible fates. And that's what was promised to sera's soul. (I swear to you, no more will suffer your fate)
So yeah that's just what I think
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Aslo was I right in remembering that Wygol village had the last 2 belmonts liaveing in there, I was unsure cos after the whole loseing the whip. id have just moved far, far away until there ready to come back,
Nope. There are no direct Belmonts on Wygol.
but the whip being sort of alive understood, as I think sera's soul loves them all like family, as she would have leons child's mother so I think she made it possible to have a cooling off time, sort like to make them pure again
Just a correction here: Sarah, as far as we know, didn't have children. She was betrothed to Leon, and not actually his wife (she was kidnapped one day before becoming his wife). And we know how things went back then with the virginity stuff. Plus, she's 18 by LoI's time, so it's much more likely that the mother of the Belmont clan was someone else.
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Nope. There are no direct Belmonts on Wygol.
Just a correction here: Sarah, as far as we know, didn't have children. She was betrothed to Leon, and not actually his wife (she was kidnapped one day before becoming his wife). And we know how things went back then with the virginity stuff. Plus, she's 18 by LoI's time, so it's much more likely that the mother of the Belmont clan was someone else.
Yeah but what I meant was that she would have married him and had his kids that's was the plan Baring death. so I think she see the belmonts as the family she never had. that's what I meant And she did love him very much sort like the heart in Dishonored, Sera feels intense love/protection, (And we know it can feel emotions) for anyone who is a Belmont. That's the way I see it, no she gave him no kids. But her soul is now part of His so she will always be with and part of the Belmont's.
But all this could be wrong. I'm just drawing on my knowledge of the occult.
I know IGA has said he didn't no the reason why they lost the whip, but I think he may have some idea, even if its a dim one.
And I'd love to know why. :'( WHYYY Konami WHY!!!!!! Sob :'(
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Aslo was I right in remembering that Wygol village had the last 2 belmonts liaveing in there, I was unsure cos after the whole loseing the whip. id have just moved far, far away until there ready to come back,
Also I really would love to know a reson why they lost the whip,
as I think its cos richter broke the blood convent with sera's soul. As we all know that anything to do with the count can draw out the worst in anyone heart, so I always thought that deep down he was sad that he was now useless, and there was no need for him. and I would not be shocked if shaft played on that and used that to take him over, thus his weakness was how shaft controlled him. And that's were the shame part comes in he left out of shame cos in fact what shaft did to him was true he did what to fight over, and over scard of become old and forgotten.
but the whip being sort of alive understood, as I think sera's soul loves them all like family, as she would have been leons child's mother so I think she made it possible to have a cooling off time, sort like to make them pure again
SO yeah that's my idea to why the Belmont's lost the whip, its may not be right, and it may not even be close,
but cos Richter became the master of the demon castle, others would have been doomed to become a vampire and other terrible fates. And that's what was promised to sera's soul. (I swear to you, no more will suffer your fate)
So yeah that's just what I think
Personally I don't believe this is correct. I don't believe the VK "loves the Belmonts like family" so to speak. I believe it's purely because of the VK containing Sara's soul, it does contain a level of sentience to recognise the bloodline, but that's about it. The reason I say this is because in LOI the power of the VK i.e. "The Whip's Rage" is mentioned. Later in AoS we are informed that the VK's power 'faded' after the true ending i.e. the Rage was quelled. The reason Sara's soul was fused into the whip of alchemy was to create the VK, so the Belmonts could destroy creatures of the night.
Notice that in POR when Jonathan faces off with the Whip's Memory (the memory of the previous wielder) it is still Richter Belmont. This means the VK's last memory is Richter wielding the VK, so it still does recognise him as the last person to wield it and that's by the time of POR, over 100 years after Richter's games took place.
The Richter being ashamed
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Personally I don't believe this is correct. I don't believe the VK "loves the Belmonts like family" so to speak. I believe it's purely because of the VK containing Sara's soul, it does contain a level of sentience to recognise the bloodline, but that's about it. The reason I say this is because in LOI the power of the VK i.e. "The Whip's Rage" is mentioned. Later in AoS we are informed that the VK's power 'faded' after the true ending i.e. the Rage was quelled. The reason Sara's soul was fused into the whip of alchemy was to create the VK, so the Belmonts could destroy creatures of the night.
Notice that in POR when Jonathan faces off with the Whip's Memory (the memory of the previous wielder) it is still Richter Belmont. This means the VK's last memory is Richter wielding the VK, so it still does recognise him as the last person to wield it and that's by the time of POR, over 100 years after Richter's games took place.
The Richter being ashamed
I agree, But the whip must have felt the rage, as the count was still alive. and this was after the Belmont gave up the whip but still having others fighting him.
and as far as blood convent go They made a Bond deeper then almost anything, I remember reading that's were blood packs
came from The idea of blood brothers (I may be wrong about This ) so I always see that her soul will always be with them, and I think that since it was out if love to protect him and others it must be able to feel something more then just hate, No I'm not saying that inside the whip its play chess and having coffee and planning out its days , but like the heart it has a sort of awareness of what's happening.
Yes we have never seen that and all this is based on just my head. But again my idea is no more right then your idea.
And your idea is really cool.
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I always had a the feeling that the Belmonts had a farm that was a few hours ride from town. Far enough so that anything that goes after them isn't going to be noticed by the "City folk" but close enough that they can arrive quickly in cases of danger. Plus I like the idea of them raising crops, cattle, and chopping firewood and all that in their day to day lives.
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I agree, But the whip must have felt the rage, as the count was still alive. and this was after the Belmont gave up the whip but still having others fighting him.
I'm not sure when exactly you're referring to between LOI>AOS about Dracula being alive. However, after the battle with "Chaos" in AoS, Julius mentions the VK's power "has started to fade" which correlates to Soma not becoming the Dark Lord.
soul will always be with them, and I think that since it was out if love to protect him and others it must be able to feel something more then just hate, No I'm not saying that inside the whip its play chess and having coffee and planning out its days
Rage =/= Hate. It's also not defined by rage for every single living thing. The rage is directed at creatures of the night. When Leon fought Walter he could feel the VK's rage.
but like the heart it has a sort of awareness of what's happening.
It's called sentience, which is why I mentioned it.
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I don't want to derail this topic, but I have a query. Rondo starts in Aljiba, Simon's Quest starts in Aljiba. I know Rondo was a throwback to SQ, but is Aljiba supposed to be Simon Belmont's town?
There's a problem with this, and it's the following:
-The starting village in Castlevania II: Simon's Quest, is not Aljiba. It is Jova. This is Simon' Arrival Town. The villagers do not recognize Simon.
-The first stage in DraculaX: Rondo of Blood is a throwback to CVII, indeed. And if Richter/Maria reads the 'sign' in the town entrance, it does indeed say "Aljiba". However, the layout of Aljiba in CVII is quite different from the layout of Aljiba in Rondo. Rondo's Aljiba resembles CVII's Jova.
It's very possible that the old villages started resembling one another over time, and while they were different in the past, they were more closely similar in Richter's time.
Note that the villagers in the 2nd closest village to Dracula's Castle (Village of Fetra) do recognize Simon Belmont... in a negative way. They remember him and tell him that what he did years back (in CV1's time) has doomed the village/countryside and his presence upsets the people, and cast him away from the town.
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-The starting village in Castlevania II: Simon's Quest, is not Aljiba. It is Jova. This is Simon' Arrival Town. The villagers do not recognize Simon.
-The first stage in DraculaX: Rondo of Blood is a throwback to CVII, indeed. And if Richter/Maria reads the 'sign' in the town entrance, it does indeed say "Aljiba". However, the layout of Aljiba in CVII is quite different from the layout of Aljiba in Rondo. Rondo's Aljiba resembles CVII's Jova.
Ah okay, that's where my confusion was. Well for whatever reason Aljiba looks like Jova in Rondo.(Maybe Aljiba is just a more memorable name or it was closer to the castle?) I'm then inclined to think Rondo stage 1 is a throwback to multiple parts of SQ. Jova's layout, Aljiba by name, reading the signpost, breaking a wall, and winding up on another part of the map by going below ground.
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The weirder thing is, Aljiba isn't located near Castlevania.
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Aljiba is closest to the Carmilla Cemetery, Joma Marsh, and Dabi's Path. Even years later, a town wouldn't just move on over.
Jova, however, is the closest village to Castlevania, in Simon's Quest. Unfortunately, there is no direct path from Jova to the Castle in Simon's Time.
However, in Richter's time, if the town he visits is actually Jova, and nor Aljiba (probably just a small error in development?), then the Town Expansion to the east, coupled with the underground pathways, could conceivably lead to both the Outer Border to Dracula's Castle Grounds, as well as the Aqueduct Bridge.
Back on Topic, however...
I don't think the Belmonts live in an of the Simon's Quest villages.
I think that some descendants of the Belmont Clan remained in Wygol, while others went out to see the world and hid who they were.
This was my original reason for thinking that the Morrises were actually Belmonts in disguise; not that they were another clan, but a major branch of the clan, renamed in name after Richter's Downfall.
I'm not sure I can go with that theory now, since now there are other games that revealed a few more facts (events in Portrait of Ruin, the existence of Julius Belmont in the Sorrow story, etc.).
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Even years later, a town wouldn't just move on over.
With certain exceptions. For instance, here in Alaska, present day Seward is actually a fair distance from where it was even in 1963. The whole town picked up stakes (pun not intended but welcome) and moved after a massive tsunami wiped out much of Old Seward in 1964.
So towns can move, but barring things like natural disasters, they don't tend to do so.
I'll leave it up to each of you to determine if Dracula-related things would count as a disaster worth moving a whole town over.
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Considering Dracula's Castle sometimes annexes an entire villa within its grounds as it builds itself, it wouldn't be so out of place.
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Well, now we have one alternate possibility I guess. :)