Topic: AOS or DOS?

[theANdROId]

I like both pretty equally I think.  I prefer the darker look and feel of AoS, but I just liked DoS (I don't know that I could pinpoint anything that I liked better).
I think DoS might have been better if it were more like an AoS 2:New and Improved.  Keep the overall look and feel (and probably just about everything else) from AoS, but make it a little bigger and deeper by adding some of the stuff from DoS.

I didn't like using souls to make weapons as it only prolonged the game in a rather bland and painful way. And since you can only collect one boss soul you would have to play through the game twice in order to craft every weapon possible. No thanks. Just let me find said weapons on enemies or in the castle.

What are you talking about?  It's been awhile since I've played either game, but I don't remember what you mean by this at all. :-S

[Claimh Solais]

What are you talking about?  It's been awhile since I've played either game, but I don't remember what you mean by this at all. :-S

Weapon synthesis was a new feature added to the game. You could do it at Yoko's shop, exchanging enemy souls for new weapons. Some of these weapons, such as the Valmanway, required boss souls, meaning that if you want to collect every weapon and collect every soul, you're forced to play through the game multiple times or go through Boss Rush Mode.

That, and the fact that soul skills now level up, were the two new major features added for the soul system.

[GuyStarwind]

Quick reminder that Julius was born in 1980 and will be 55 years old in AoS. And he still kicked-ass in AoS and become so much of weakling in DoS is just unacceptable. Being one year older wouldn't make so much difference in age of mid-50s.

Oh, I agree for sure. I was just being silly by saying he had a bad year. I'm about a 100% sure they only made him a weaker in DoS because they needed to make sure Yoko and Alucard had a chance to be used too.

[zangetsu468]

Oh, I agree for sure. I was just being silly by saying he had a bad year. I'm about a 100% sure they only made him a weaker in DoS because they needed to make sure Yoko and Alucard had a chance to be used too.

They nerfed him purely due to difficulty, plain and simple. Does anyone remember how hard you could troll with Julius in AOS? (It was Easy mode I tells ya)

There actually could be a reason for it. At the end of AOS Julius mentions that the Vk's power (rage) was fading. I don't see why it wouldn't come back if there was another Dark Lord on the brink of emerging (during DOS' events) however it may be the fact that because Castlevania itself was no longer there, this played its part. For a period of 30 or so years, Julius left the VK inside an eclipse sealed Castlevania to "weaken it"(English version's translation) so perhaps over time it's full unlocked power (as we see in POR) fades away without Castlevania's presence.

In another thread someone had also put forth a convincing theory that the Belmonts' blood and the eternal corridor's seal are what prevents Castlevania from re-appearing. So perhaps if it's not there, the full power (rage) isn't unlocked by default. (This could also make an interesting theory as to why Simon had to add power ups to the VK during Simon's Quest).

Anyways, as for Julius' physical form such as his weak superjump in DOS, there should have been a specific reason for it. But I'm glad it wasn't another AOS troll mode. 

[suomynona]

Weapon synthesis was a new feature added to the game. You could do it at Yoko's shop, exchanging enemy souls for new weapons. Some of these weapons, such as the Valmanway, required boss souls, meaning that if you want to collect every weapon and collect every soul, you're forced to play through the game multiple times or go through Boss Rush Mode.

That, and the fact that soul skills now level up, were the two new major features added for the soul system.

I think Weapon Synthesis is quite unnecessary cuz it requires some of rarest souls and even boss souls. I preferred where you can just get it and bam, its yours thing. Also, Clamih Solais (dunno exactly spelling but u get it), thinking all the trouble you have to go through to get it in DoS, is just not OP. It should be like Clamih Solais from AoS or Crissaegrim from SotN or even more OP cuz of increased difficulty. Also you can't get the Chaos Ring if you make the Clamih Solais or anything similar. That's just Bullshit.

[suomynona]

They nerfed him purely due to difficulty, plain and simple. Does anyone remember how hard you could troll with Julius in AOS? (It was Easy mode I tells ya)

There actually could be a reason for it. At the end of AOS Julius mentions that the Vk's power (rage) was fading. I don't see why it wouldn't come back if there was another Dark Lord on the brink of emerging (during DOS' events) however it may be the fact that because Castlevania itself was no longer there, this played its part. For a period of 30 or so years, Julius left the VK inside an eclipse sealed Castlevania to "weaken it"(English version's translation) so perhaps over time it's full unlocked power (as we see in POR) fades away without Castlevania's presence.

In another thread someone had also put forth a convincing theory that the Belmonts' blood and the eternal corridor's seal are what prevents Castlevania from re-appearing. So perhaps if it's not there, the full power (rage) isn't unlocked by default. (This could also make an interesting theory as to why Simon had to add power ups to the VK during Simon's Quest).

Anyways, as for Julius' physical form such as his weak superjump in DOS, there should have been a specific reason for it. But I'm glad it wasn't another AOS troll mode.

Can say that. This version was much like a throwback of Dracula's curse. Whilst I can say its even much superior then the main DoS, but some complains.
- Where's Grant?
- Y no stat screen? Its not that hard to program a extra stat screen IGA.
- At least allow us for potions. I still can't beat Soma for damn sake.

Julius is still cool, but I don't get why Julius is so much nerfed as of narrative settings, like he can't even defeat Dario.

[theplottwist]

Julius is still cool, but I don't get why Julius is so much nerfed as of narrative settings, like he can't even defeat Dario.

He CAN defeat Dario. The issue is that he can't access the demon bound to Dario's soul, and thus, Dario's got unlimited stamina/firepower.

They basically cheated to make Dario defeat Julius. Remember: Julius can still destroy demons that needed seals to be destroyed without using seals at all. He destroyed them so fast they couldn't regenerate.

[Shiroi Koumori]

Can say that. This version was much like a throwback of Dracula's curse. Whilst I can say its even much superior then the main DoS, but some complains.
- Where's Grant?
- Y no stat screen? Its not that hard to program a extra stat screen IGA.
- At least allow us for potions. I still can't beat Soma for damn sake.

To answer 1 and 2:
Hammer was supposed to be Grant. But due to Konami, IGA was given way to small of a budget and way less time to finish the game. It is already good enough that IGA included a Julius mode given all the restraints he was facing.
For question 3:
No choice but to get better at the game like all the old school vanias.

[suomynona]

They nerfed him purely due to difficulty, plain and simple. Does anyone remember how hard you could troll with Julius in AOS? (It was Easy mode I tells ya)

There actually could be a reason for it. At the end of AOS Julius mentions that the Vk's power (rage) was fading. I don't see why it wouldn't come back if there was another Dark Lord on the brink of emerging (during DOS' events) however it may be the fact that because Castlevania itself was no longer there, this played its part. For a period of 30 or so years, Julius left the VK inside an eclipse sealed Castlevania to "weaken it"(English version's translation) so perhaps over time it's full unlocked power (as we see in POR) fades away without Castlevania's presence.

In another thread someone had also put forth a convincing theory that the Belmonts' blood and the eternal corridor's seal are what prevents Castlevania from re-appearing. So perhaps if it's not there, the full power (rage) isn't unlocked by default. (This could also make an interesting theory as to why Simon had to add power ups to the VK during Simon's Quest).

Anyways, as for Julius' physical form such as his weak superjump in DOS, there should have been a specific reason for it. But I'm glad it wasn't another AOS troll mode.

About VK's fading power, VK still held power even in the Belmont's exile during Leon's time to Trevor's time, which, (not considering Sonia cuz she's non-canon) the power did not fade away, actually, it became stronger. Also when the Morris' had the VK (Bloodlines and PoR), it was still as effective as. Even en Bloodlines, Castlevania was in its ruin then. Thinking that the Dracula is still around and dark power still lurking (like Celia) (also that Castlevania is technically still existing; just in the solar eclipse. If it was gone for good, we wouldn't be seeing AoS anyway) , I really don't think VK lost its power in any way.

Also, Julius' age don't matter, cuz like in AoS he was a kickass, and in Adventures, Christopher was narratively stronger then Soleiyu (or that is at least how I type it). Thinking of that, I don't think age doesn't matter for Belmont's thousand year-old vampire hunting. (We can say about Eric or Morris Baldwin, but they are nit Belmont, so hey ho!)

[suomynona]

To answer 1 and 2:
Hammer was supposed to be Grant. But due to Konami, IGA was given way to small of a budget and way less time to finish the game. It is already good enough that IGA included a Julius mode given all the restraints he was facing.
For question 3:
No choice but to get better at the game like all the old school vanias.

Yeah. I get the point. I do agree, especially that Konami was and is a asshole. But,
1: Hammer's data was actually almost completed and it was in the game as dummy data
2: As I said, stat screen is quite simple to program
3: It is supposed to be MetroidVania and just a fan service throwback to CV3. So technically it is still MetroidVania. Also, it is more likely to get hit in Julius mode then CV3, so I think they should give the players some mercy.

[suomynona]

He CAN defeat Dario. The issue is that he can't access the demon bound to Dario's soul, and thus, Dario's got unlimited stamina/firepower.

They basically cheated to make Dario defeat Julius. Remember: Julius can still destroy demons that needed seals to be destroyed without using seals at all. He destroyed them so fast they couldn't regenerate.

Yeah, but like if Julius is THAT strong, why do they have to say he lost,? It could be like Celia made losing Dario flee, or at least a Stalemate. Julius' loss is unnecessary and much of hurt to character in par of Hammer's chase of characteristics.
That is my biggest complaint on story, other would be:
- The prologue just sound random. It could start like Soma getting a threat mail or Mina gets kidnapped or something.
- Arikado's speech to Soma in good ending route. Why would Soma believe that his dead girlfriend is actually fake, also he is in such rage, less likely to listen. My opinion is that Arikado instead should say that "If you become Dracula, that's not what Mina wants, that's what she wanted to prevent from happening." and then say that it was a trick.
- What's Menace? It's so random and weird, something at least like Dracula Wraith would be nice.

One word, its just bizarre.

[zangetsu468]

Good call with Grant/ Hammer Shiroi, beat me to the punch

About VK's fading power, VK still held power even in the Belmont's exile during Leon's time to Trevor's time, which, (not considering Sonia cuz she's non-canon) the power did not fade away, actually, it became stronger. Also when the Morris' had the VK (Bloodlines and PoR), it was still as effective as. Even en Bloodlines, Castlevania was in its ruin then. Thinking that the Dracula is still around and dark power still lurking (like Celia) (also that Castlevania is technically still existing; just in the solar eclipse. If it was gone for good, we wouldn't be seeing AoS anyway) , I really don't think VK lost its power in any way.

I think you're misunderstanding my comment in context to a few facts:

Re: LOI -  The Castle in LOI (although unconfirmed) is not considered to be the original Castlevania i.e. the one seen in Castlevania III. Because the VK was conceived at the time of LOI and Dracula didn't have 'his own Castle'. This would not apply. The VK's power (rage) could have faded after CVIII and become completely active again by CV1.

-Re: Bloodlines - True that when the Morris clan during Bloodlines had it, it was at Castle Prosperina, though Castlevania was never resurrected at this time and the game was made a long time ago.

-Re: POR - The Morris/ Lecarde descendants only unlock it when Castlevania has been resurrected once again.

-I never said the Vk was "gone for good"

-I never made the assumption the Vk's "power faded", I only assumed that the VK's power is its rage; Sara's rage from LOI.
 This is not an assumption as it is said at the end of AOS by Julius, I even recall a thread discussion (which I believe I started) where Shiroi translated this line in Japanese, and it was basically the same.*

*I reiterate, not saying the VK's power is completely gone, simply that it's rage has been quelled temporarily.

However, the Castlevania<>VK link is simply a theory. Given the context of what all the games have in common, it's Dracula's potential resurrection, or more specifically, the resurrection of the Dark Lord (which also covers Soma). Because of this, the VK's rage would still be at max during the events of DOS. Hence, why I stated initially prior to my theory that Julius was nerfed so hard to give his mode more difficulty - his super jump being nerfed is evidence of this, and the proof being that in Soma's mode Julius outright scales the entry to the castle with Yoko commenting that he was able to do it because, well "He's Julius"

Also, Julius' age don't matter, cuz like in AoS he was a kickass, and in Adventures, Christopher was narratively stronger then Soleiyu (or that is at least how I type it). Thinking of that, I don't think age doesn't matter for Belmont's thousand year-old vampire hunting. (We can say about Eric or Morris Baldwin, but they are nit Belmont, so hey ho!)

I literally never commented on Julius' age

[suomynona]

Good call with Grant/ Hammer Shiroi, beat me to the punch

I think you're misunderstanding my comment in context to a few facts:

Re: LOI -  The Castle in LOI (although unconfirmed) is not considered to be the original Castlevania i.e. the one seen in Castlevania III. Because the VK was conceived at the time of LOI and Dracula didn't have 'his own Castle'. This would not apply. The VK's power (rage) could have faded after CVIII and become completely active again by CV1.

-Re: Bloodlines - True that when the Morris clan during Bloodlines had it, it was at Castle Prosperina, though Castlevania was never resurrected at this time and the game was made a long time ago.

-Re: POR - The Morris/ Lecarde descendants only unlock it when Castlevania has been resurrected once again.

-I never said the Vk was "gone for good"

-I never made the assumption the Vk's "power faded", I only assumed that the VK's power is its rage; Sara's rage from LOI.
 This is not an assumption as it is said at the end of AOS by Julius, I even recall a thread discussion (which I believe I started) where Shiroi translated this line in Japanese, and it was basically the same.*

*I reiterate, not saying the VK's power is completely gone, simply that it's rage has been quelled temporarily.

However, the Castlevania<>VK link is simply a theory. Given the context of what all the games have in common, it's Dracula's potential resurrection, or more specifically, the resurrection of the Dark Lord (which also covers Soma). Because of this, the VK's rage would still be at max during the events of DOS. Hence, why I stated initially prior to my theory that Julius was nerfed so hard to give his mode more difficulty - his super jump being nerfed is evidence of this, and the proof being that in Soma's mode Julius outright scales the entry to the castle with Yoko commenting that he was able to do it because, well "He's Julius"
 I literally never commented on Julius' age

Indeed. It is your opinion after all. All has different opinion. And the fact that VK theory is only a fan assumption, I personally believe that neither of us is right or wrong.

I personally think that Julius was nerfed because IGA wanted Julius to be like 'good ol' friend', also to make Soma look stronger and stuff alike. Whilst my theory of Julius' characteristic would be good for a character like Wind or Morris Baldwin, I think it is not what fans expect for a Belmont, yet the most powerful one.

Also I commented on Julius' age cuz that was what the story was going for that Julius is old and he is now weak.

[zangetsu468]

All has different opinion. And the fact that VK theory is only a fan assumption

Mate, this is not a fan assumption.
Opinions are based on both interpretation of facts and making assumptions. The difference between a well formed opinion and a random uninformed opinion = this: Your opinion means 5 parts of F-all if you're just throwing statements around willy nilly.

Back to the matter at hand it's all contained in this thread:

http://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/index.php/topic,8229.msg183115.html#msg183115

Some cliffnotes to save everyone (who cares) time in Chronological order:

Julius Belmont: You fought well. When we fled the castle, I felt the power from Vampire Killer fading away. I don't know what that means. But I won't have to do anything for the time being. -Best (canon) ending; AOS

Me:
"I'll try explaining it this way: the power of the VK is due to Sara's soul. The more rage that its soul has ie during a Dracula battle [at its maximum] the more potential or latent "power"[rage] dwells within the VK."

Shiroi translated the Japanese script as this:
Julius Belmont: "When I(we) escaped the castle, I noticed that the Vampire Killer has lost* its power."
"I don't know what this means but, it seems that I'm going to have some spare time."

Plottwist points out DOS' Library mode entry:
Vampire Killer:
A whip that destroys all that is associated with the dark creatures of the night.  As a result of an ancient blood pact, it can only be used by a Belmont.  Its power was temporarily weakened last year when Soma broke free of his destiny as the dark lord. However, its potent power has not been entirely lost.

Me:
"If its "potent power" wasn't completely active during DoS I then wonder if this is a canon explanation to why Julius was significantly nerfed between the two games."

This is explained in 2 games, it doesn't differ in the Japanese version, thus there was no poetic licence taken by English translators. I don't say this often or ever, but if your opinion differs to this then your opinion is fan fiction.

[suomynona]

Mate, this is not a fan assumption.
Opinions are based on both interpretation of facts and making assumptions. The difference between a well formed opinion and a random uninformed opinion = this: Your opinion means 5 parts of F-all if you're just throwing statements around willy nilly.

Back to the matter at hand it's all contained in this thread:

http://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/index.php/topic,8229.msg183115.html#msg183115

Some cliffnotes to save everyone (who cares) time in Chronological order:

Julius Belmont: You fought well. When we fled the castle, I felt the power from Vampire Killer fading away. I don't know what that means. But I won't have to do anything for the time being. -Best (canon) ending; AOS

Me:
"I'll try explaining it this way: the power of the VK is due to Sara's soul. The more rage that its soul has ie during a Dracula battle [at its maximum] the more potential or latent "power"[rage] dwells within the VK."

Shiroi translated the Japanese script as this:
Julius Belmont: "When I(we) escaped the castle, I noticed that the Vampire Killer has lost* its power."
"I don't know what this means but, it seems that I'm going to have some spare time."

Plottwist points out DOS' Library mode entry:
Vampire Killer:
A whip that destroys all that is associated with the dark creatures of the night.  As a result of an ancient blood pact, it can only be used by a Belmont.  Its power was temporarily weakened last year when Soma broke free of his destiny as the dark lord. However, its potent power has not been entirely lost.

Me:
"If its "potent power" wasn't completely active during DoS I then wonder if this is a canon explanation to why Julius was significantly nerfed between the two games."

This is explained in 2 games, it doesn't differ in the Japanese version, thus there was no poetic licence taken by English translators. I don't say this often or ever, but if your opinion differs to this then your opinion is fan fiction.

Get it. Maybe I needed more research on it. Sorry for underestimating u VK
However, this bring up to:
If VK was still powerful, how could Julius lose to Dario? I no its repetitive but I seek explanation plz!