Topic: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow - Mirror of Fate 3DS (Discussion Thread)

[Dremn]

After LoS is finished, I think Konami will take a break from Castlevania for awhile. At least, major titles. We'll probably get more spin offs like Encore of the Night and more pachislot games.

[RichterB]

The Dave Cox interview is sort of tragic. It's clear that he's very fond of the Castlevania franchise and its roots more so than Metroidvania, which is more my taste, as well. Therefore, LoS should be the saga for me, as I tired of Metroidvania and really wanted a return in spirit to Cox's aforementioned old-school CV 1, III, and IV. But when he invokes these names, the product doesn't intimately reflect them. It's just tiny flourishes. It's bizarre. It's like someone saying they want to make a classic Star Wars movie, and then they make Star Wars: Episode I The Phantom Menace. It's tragic. The intentions are there, the homages can be seen when you squint enough, but it's really apples and oranges, and ultimately doesn't satisfy the craving for what an evolution of CV 1, III, and IV would be. Ugh...I wish them well, but I'm just so troubled by this. Thankfully LoS will come to an end eventually. I think LoS2 is definitely going to have the "present day" in some of its gameplay from this interview.

[e105beta]

Watching the interview. Cox and Enric are very well-spoken and likable, but I still don't know if they understand what makes Castlevania tick. When Cox says it's more like Dracula's Curse now, I think he's exaggerating. They really want to redefine this franchise on all levels into something else. The similarities to the past are more superficial. I think maybe they want to make a name for themselves and use CV as a stepping stone for their inherent talent.

And as for this "know Dracula" story...it hasn't been working for me. Mirror of Fate seems slightly more interesting in its narrative, but Gabe becoming Dracula came off as forced to me; so much happened off screen or before the game began. A lot of it felt random and removed from history, too. I thought LoI did a better job in terms of emotions, with Renaldo's tale and Leon facing the betrayal and his wife's death firsthand, and then going forth with conviction. Some people thought it was silly, but it wasn't any less credible that LoS' storyline. Even if quirky, LoI made it quite clear and very compelling why the Belmonts are out for blood. And Leon made a great first Belmont, too--you saw up close the descent from formal nobleman to desperate commoner to vengeful warrior. (I'll hunt you and the night! )

Now back to the interview...

PS: Cox, I didn't ask for a return to "Metroidvania" in any format.

But a lot of people did.

That's the thing, a lot of people asked for a lot of different things, and a lot of different people have a lot of different ideas of what makes Castlevania tick. What you think makes Castlevania tick is definitely different than what I think makes Castlevania tick, which is probably different from what David Cox thinks makes Castlevania tick.

Also, having played LoS and seeing the upcoming plot for MoF and LoS2, I find this a much more compelling story for the Belmonts. Sure, Leon got worked over by Matthias, but it's over 300 years until the Belmonts actually encounter Dracula again. Realistically, by the time Trevor kills Dracula, he's just carrying out great-granddad's feud. In LoS, Trevor has a personal beef with Dracula: he, his father, killed his mother. Following this up, Simon has a personal beef with Dracula: he, his grandfather, killed his mother and supposedly his father, and even by the time any future Belmonts role around, they're always sworn against Dracula by the fact that he's their progenitor. It is the bloodline's duty to wipe the very literal stain from their lineage.

Though that's me. I think I'm one of the few people that actually like the LoS writing.

[Neobelmont]

Yeah, it also makes me wonder where Castlevania will go from here. This reboot is already finished and won't be expanded upon (it seems). So what next? Are we gonna see another reboot after LoS2, made by someone else? Will IGA come back and make more games in the old timeline? Or... Are Konami putting an end to the series altogether? Is this... good-bye?

If that would be true then my life as a gamer would take an unbelievable hit to say good bye to cv is like saying good bye to a major part of my gaming self, this series is why I play games in the first place 

Also in the interview Cox said that nintendo is behind them I hope for a Belmont in the next smash bros if the game sells well it might be well received now but a major battle lies ahead for to truly make cv in the same league as mario and zelda again.

[RichterB]

I have one more thing to add to my previous post:

I said Cox invoking the classic CV games like III and IV is like someone saying they want to make a classic Star Wars film and then making The Phantom Menace. Right after I left, I realized how great of an analogy this is. It's the same sort of things Cox and others say: when you look hard enough, you see it's in that vein.

Phantom Menace has Obi-Wan Kenobi, lightsabers, blasters R2-D2, spaceships, Jedi, the Skywalker name, etc etc...but despite all of this, which it shares with Star Wars IV-VI, it's completely different than the first three Star Wars films. That's what I think is going on with this comparison business with LoS. I give Cox and MS credit for trying to make Castlevania modern and relevant, even if I don't agree with their direction, but don't go around throwing out names like Dracula's Curse and Super Castlevania IV, and saying you don't want Metroidvania, and then doing stuff that totally contradicts it. I know it's unintentional, but that's too cruel for me. Just say we're "redefining the Castlevania universe into a modern action fantasy-horror game with exploration elements" and call it a day.

[Chernabogue]

After the LoS era, I think Konami will wait a bit before launching a new "big" CV title. I think they'll continue to use the original timeline to make "little" games (Pachislots, Encore, etc.) before asking a new studio to create its vision of CV, as MS did.

[JR]

Is it just me who has the strange feeling that we're getting the whole CV series condensed into this game? That kinda worries me, but it would be awesome if they pull it off.

Yeah. It's like going to a concert to see a band, and then they play everything super fast to cram as many songs into their set as they can. Not very fulfilling.

It honestly makes me wish they had more games to spread this story out a bit, but then again, we'll have to wait and see exactly what they're doing.

I'm happy to see the attention the series is getting right now. Also, although somewhat insignificant in the grand scheme of things, I love the idea of MoF having a customizable map marker.

[Dominus Agony]

Or... Are Konami putting an end to the series altogether? Is this... good-bye?

Oh please.  The series has been going strong for 25+ years, and now all of a sudden a new team comes along, and you think it's over? Perhaps the question you should ask is, "should I give up on the series?"

I can assure you, Castlevania will continue as long as there are customers buying the games, and Konami knows this.

[Kingshango]

After the LOS saga is over, I think Konami will give another development team. Rather than giving it to IGA again so that he can continue to not make the 1999 game, Konami wants to let new developers give it a go and see what they can do.

I gotta say, it's gonna be interesting to see where the Castlevania series go after 2013.

[uzo]

Cox touts all this "listening to fan feedback and criticisms" and "totally inspired by the good old games" but I honestly think that's just just PR marketing buzz words. I saw his lips flapping, but all I heard was diarrhea coming out. He's a marketing guy, so I guess you have to expect that sort of thing? There is an old truth, sadly, that if someone says loud enough, a lie to the public time and time again, it will become truth to the public. The same tactic is being used here.

Either way, let's examine the criticism part;

What MS 'heard':
- Herp, derp, not enough exploration elements

What is reality:
- No more Titans
- Get a new composer
- Stop the Lord of the Rings generalizations, bring back Castlevania style enemies
- Fix the flawed combat balance, long combos are useless, enemies have inflated HP
- Die chupacabra! Die!
- The story was nonsensical / poorly written

I've heard the exploration complaint, but by so few a minority it was barely a concern. The fact that you could revisit stages was pretty well an acceptable compromise to everyone. That's where the concerns they heard ended. I've heard crazy amounts more of the other complaints.

At this point Cox and Alvarez have so many dollars stuck in their ears they can't hear, or care to hear, the true concerns of the game. Or perhaps the only criticism they looked at was Zero Punctuation? They've completely ignored the true issues pointed out, as well as went on to say they will be continuing the same design process for these next two titles.

On the flip side, they claim LoS was the best selling Castlevania release in the franchise's history. So, do they really care what the old Castlevania fans think? Should they care? By alienating the hardcore fans, they made profit hand over fist. This is what Konami wanted, a more profitable Castlevania. Who cares about the old fans, now that we have 4 times the amount of new fans?

Profitability versus fan appeasing is a very touchy issue. I feel that most people see them as having abandoned the old fans, tipping this balance quite in the opposite direction they expected.

[A-Yty]

Yeah, it also makes me wonder where Castlevania will go from here. This reboot is already finished and won't be expanded upon (it seems). So what next? Are we gonna see another reboot after LoS2, made by someone else? Will IGA come back and make more games in the old timeline? Or... Are Konami putting an end to the series altogether? Is this... good-bye?

It would be a lackluster goodbye. Even if not predicting how LoS2 and MoF will do, there would be so much wasted potential and loose ends if it were to end here.

But I doubt it's a reasonable concern, anyway. Even if the series lapsed, it would return eventually. I think it's safe to say CV is one of Konami's signature series, no matter how they have treated it over the years. And even if Konami would no longer invest in it, I'm pretty confident some other company would buy the rights to it if they wanted to sell it.

[Nagumo]

I think after LoS, IGA will come with his idea that will move the series forward again that he talked about a few years back.

[shelverton.]

Oh please.  The series has been going strong for 25+ years, and now all of a sudden a new team comes along, and you think it's over? Perhaps the question you should ask is, "should I give up on the series?"

I can assure you, Castlevania will continue as long as there are customers buying the games, and Konami knows this.

I never said that I thought it was over. I was just considering different outcomes. If Konami keeps giving the series to new studios, we'll probably end up with multiple timelines before long. People in general talk about IGA and Cox, and that the series is gonna continue down one of their timelines, but I'm starting to think that Castlevania is done with that. It's gonna become more like, dunno, Zelda from now on; Random storylines with little to no connections to other games whatsoever.

Going back to the IGA timeline is, in my opinion, more unlikely than just ending the series altogether. Konami went out of their way to reboot the series and then... unreboot it? Equally unlikely is the thought of a new developer continuing with Cox story, because it's supposed to be done, probably with no loose ends to speak of.

Sooo, the only two reasonable things I can think of are: 1) A new team comes up with yet a new origin story, makes 2-4 games and then hands the torch to another team who creates a new story. And so on. Or: 2) Konami ends the series, or at least takes a long break.

I know that many people here seem to be sure that we're going back to the original timeline after this, but I just don't see that happening. Maybe remakes of older games, but no new ones to tie up all loose ends, and certainly no 1999 game.

Am I being too pessimistic?

[MelancholySpork12]

If that would be true then my life as a gamer would take an unbelievable hit to say good bye to cv is like saying good bye to a major part of my gaming self, this series is why I play games in the first place 

I think it is VERY premature to worry about this. We're getting two new Castlevania games back-to-back, and one is a full-fledged major console release. If Konami saw no potential in the franchise, that wouldn't have happened. Just because LoS may be ending (was that even confirmed?), it's not ending until 2013, and Castlevania remains one of Konami's most respected franchises. Castlevania has brand equity, and you can bet Konami will continue to capitalize on it as long as the games sell. I'd bet money that even Cox has no idea if LoS2 is going to be the end of the series, since regardless of their plan, if copies fly off the shelves we'll definitely be seeing another one... LoS or not.

Let's not start mourning Castlevania just yet... any franchise that has two games coming out in as many years is very much alive.

[beingthehero]

I dunno, after Lords was announced Adventure ReBirth, HoDespair, and the pachislot games were released, so it's not like they ever abandoned the original series. But I dunno.