Topic: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow - Mirror of Fate 3DS (Discussion Thread)

[uzo]

In the E3 interviews he already said flat out that they are keeping the damage ratios and combat system as is. Each time it's mentioned he defends the decision and cites that LoS is not the traditional Castlevania and it will not have skeletons that die in a single hit.

Oh and also, that the people who complain about it (ie. the old series fans who don't like LoS that much) are such a tiny tiny voice to them, as they swim in their millions of dollars, that they don't consider them a valid source of complaints filing it under "you can't please everyone! ".

[Inccubus]

Yeah, that's the impression I got, and sadly that's exactly the aspect of the game that will probably prevent me from committing my cash to it. And Cox's apparent attitude towards the "minority" that didn't like LoS just rubs me the wrong way.

You haven't played VK, if you say this, or you played it very badly. Levels in VK have very little to do with stage structure of CV1. There are tonnes of additional areas and slight differences. Sections themselves built like minimaps looped on itself. While the general layout could be similar, levels themselves are practially complete different only reminding about CV1, but not copying it alltogether.
CV2 had one big looped area, that was derived from VK's minimaps idea.

Now I think you're just trying to be contrary to g opinion for no good reason.
First of all, in case it slipped your attention Vampire Killer is listed as my favorite CV game for a reason.
Second, I have actually played through the game multiple time and I mapped out every area in it on paper down to the most minute detail. I've studies the stage layouts meticulously and compared them to those in CV1 and I know exactly which screens and layout elements are shared by each of the games. I'm even using these maps and layouts to make a definitive remake of Castlevania that incorporates elements from all of it's previous iterations.

And, finally, having rooms that loop back on themselves does not make it the same as CV2's over world looping back in exactly one spot in the entire game. That's like saying that oranges and bananas are the same because they both have peels.

Castlevania 2 is adheres to the adventure exploration genre, like VK, but in different context. It took VK aproach and expanded on it, abandoning level by level structure and replacing it with giant map and several submaps, that could be counted as mini stages, if you want. Much like in VK, you need to find different items and upgrades to progress through the game. You can't access some parts of the world map, if you didn't have Blue Crystal or Red Crystal. Also, you can't progress further in the game, if you didn't have certain equipment and upgraded weapons. In short, while CV2 is quite different it uses the same logic as VK, but expands on it.

You are thinking of the wrong game. It's Metroid where you couldn't go further without the right equipment. In VK the ONLY item you need to get passes a board was the big key. And the big keys never required any spacial equipment to find besides a normal key and those are spread out everywhere. Big keys were never placed anywhere that you couldn't get to them without a special item. If that were the case I would agree with you, but this idea is countermanded by the fact that when you die you loose all your equipment. Therefore finding the big key could not be dependent on having a specific item because the designers wouldn't know for sure if you had the right equipment for a specific situation. There is a big difference between finding a key to open the next door and exploring a huge world with branching paths to find new abilities that allow you to explore more areas. They didn't just magically come up with this idea in a vacuum that only CV1 and VK existed in. CV2 came out almost a year after Metroid which means it was in development after Metroid was already on the market and Konami, no doubt, took notice.

Hidden Merchants in CV2 look like monks in grey (sometimes different coloured) robes. You maybe speak about Gypsies in the CV2, but I am not sure if they use the same graphic as Merchants in VK and besides you can't buy anything from them. They just spout some useless advices. Shield Mechanic is present, that is another proove of relation between CV2 and VK.

You are correct that the graphics aren't used for the merchants and that only certain NPCs have a similar graphic. However, there being merchants, one similar graphic, and one game play mechanic, doesn't make CV2 more inspired by VK than CV1 especially when you consider that pretty much everything else is either completely unlike both or is taken from both. Saying the shield is PROOF of a relation between the two games is nonsense as the rest of the elements of CV2 are from CV1 or Metroid. That's exactly like people who say that because LoS has an extending chain weapon the whole game is inspired by GoW.

This statement is nonsense. CV2 has much more weapons and equipment in the game as a whole. And idea of having multiple weapons and equipment (and ability to use them at the same time) in CV2 was certainly inspired by VK, however it was present there in much more user-friendly form.
Nope.
In CV2 you can also use multiple subweapons at the same time. Use Flame Pillar, activate menu, throw Diamond or a Dagger. It maybe different from how you can use multiple subweapons in VK, but it is still works.
And there is no need to explain for me VK mechanics - few months ago I made a one life playthrough of this game and wrote a review about it. AI did the same about CV2 too.

Did you really just basically say they're different, but they're still the same? That's ridiculous. In VK there are 2 sub-weapons that you can get at the same time, they are found from random places, are used dynamically in combat, and that you lose when you die. CV2 has 6 sub-weapons, that you collect over the course of the game, They are found or bought in specific places, cannot be used dynamically because you have to access them through a menu, and you never lose them. Plus you need some of them to progress through the game. How is that the same? How is that more like CV2 than CV1?

VK stages set up in completely different fashion rather once that could be found in CV1. Each section is a looped minimap that is often have intricate, puzzle like design. There are still somewhat linear, but nowhere near the straightforward design of the CV1 levels.

Granted that there's a bit more to explore in each board, but there's still only one way to get through each board. You still progress from board to board and from stage to stage. This is vastly different from CV2. And there are no intricately designed puzzle-like layouts. The closest thing is the sewer area before fighting Frankenstein's Monster. The rest of the areas mostly consist of run around, kill monsters, and find the key. Sometimes you need to loop around sometimes you don't. Either way there's always only one way to get through each board.

Finally some logical statement. However CV2 ideas were heavily derived form VK. It is simply couldn't be argued. Too many coincidences in the design between the two games.

All of my statement's are logical, thank you.
What is illogical is saying that CV2 is heavily influenced by VK when almost everything in CV2 is either also present in CV1 or obviously inspired by Metroid. And as I said before, one mechanic, one similar graphic, and one huge loop isn't "proof" in the face of all the other differences.

[Sindra]

And Cox's apparent attitude towards the "minority" that didn't like LoS just rubs me the wrong way.

You and me both.

People wonder why I give Cox a lot of grief, and his attitude with his comments there sum it up perfectly. It just comes off cocky and arrogant.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

Ha ha, if only he would behave in an "Okay " face.

Some  Fans: "Hey, minion, make our game not suck like that other game you made!"
Cox: "Okay "

Other Fans: "While I like LoS, it's still not Castlevania-ish.  FIX!"
Cox: "Okay "

[Sindra]

It really would work out for the best, in my opinion.

[Kingshango]

You and me both.

People wonder why I give Cox a lot of grief, and his attitude with his comments there sum it up perfectly. It just comes off cocky and arrogant.

His cockyness reminds me Peter Molyneux, a developer im not to fond with.

When you think of about it, Cox and Moleynuex do have alot in common.

[Neobelmont]

Power and perhaps a slight bit of fame can corrupt or make someone get ahead of themselfs. Just felt like saying that now excuse me;I am off.

[Gaawa-chan]

(click to show/hide)

The maps on this image look a LOT like the SotN castle map to me.

[Neobelmont]

The maps on this image look a LOT like the SotN castle map to me.

Yeah or more like the ds ones not that there was much difference right?

Interviews said that we would be able to place a marker or something right?

[Sumac]

[crisis]

LoL Sumac overreacting as usual  and you wonder why no one here respects you. C'est la vie.

The maps on this image look a LOT like the SotN castle map to me.

well I hope the castle will have as much if not more detail as Symphony's castle. As for placing markers, wasn't that also a feature of the PS2 titles?

[shelverton.]

The maps on this image look a LOT like the SotN castle map to me.

I gotta say that map screen alone makes me pretty excited about this game. Cox has already said that MoF is not a Metroidvania, but "inspired by them". I love my Metroidvanias and that certainly looks like a classic Metroidvania map, but even if it turns out to be something completely different it's safe to say that we'll be doing quite a bit of exploring. Makes me happy

[Kingshango]

I gotta say that map screen alone makes me pretty excited about this game. Cox has already said that MoF is not a Metroidvania, but "inspired by them". I love my Metroidvanias and that certainly looks like a classic Metroidvania map, but even if it turns out to be something completely different it's safe to say that we'll be doing quite a bit of exploring. Makes me happy

And remember, that map is only the first area outside of the castle. Now imagine the area's inside the castle.

[meanguyjones]

Anyone want to tell me how that David Cox interview and him saying "We want to please people who liked LoS, but want to bring the people in that didn't like it that much" is being taken as him being arrogant?

Maybe I'm missing something here, but that entire interview both Cox and Alvarez were pretty diplomatic and came off pretty well.

If someone could point out to me what he did that was arrogant, that'd be great.

[Neobelmont]

Anyone want to tell me how that David Cox interview and him saying "We want to please people who liked LoS, but want to bring the people in that didn't like it that much" is being taken as him being arrogant?

Maybe I'm missing something here, but that entire interview both Cox and Alvarez were pretty diplomatic and came off pretty well.

If someone could point out to me what he did that was arrogant, that'd be great.

I think from what I understand from it. Is that the ones that do not like it or some of the "older" fans that see the problems that should be fix but are not due to LoS doing so well, and I guess his attuide toward the minority I think one comment was like since LoS did so well... I do not know the whole story. but it rubbed some people off in the wrong way. That is how I see it as.