Topic: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow - Mirror of Fate 3DS (Discussion Thread)

[e105beta]

You say that, but I feel like everyone's forgetting the fact the MoF already IS about bridging that gap.

-2D perspective
-Metroidvania style exploration
-Darker atmosphere
-More platforming
-Traditonal Belmonts
-Heart sub-weapon system
-The CASTLE

To say Cox isn't listening with Mirror of Fate is absurd. The fact of the matter is everyone is going bonkers over one video taken by a non-professional, because, OMG, a skeleton took 3 too many hits.

Let's ignore the fact that throughout that video, there was maybe one or two real combos. He also spammed area attacks on melee enemies, never sync blocked, refused to use shadow magic, and over all played like a novice, if LoS is any measurement. And saying this to a Castlevania community, I'd think people would understand the attitude behind "play poorly get poor results". That, or Cox really is spot on with his Metroidvania assessment.

But that's honestly beside the point. This game was never supposed to be a Classicvania or a Metroidvania. Sure, it has elements, but at its core it's supposed to be a 2D rendition of Lords of Shadow, and what Lords of Shadow was most praised for was its combat, so reducing enemies to 1-2 hits with weak attacks would be entirely against the design philosophy. At that point, there really wouldn't be much point to combat other than being a platforming obstacle, which I know is what some people desperately want.

You don't have to like everything about MoF, and if you really are completely put off by the game's direction you have the right to be so, but at least understand that too much more "listening" and eventually you have a game that MercurySteam wasn't trying to make in the first place.

[Havatchu]

You say that, but I feel like everyone's forgetting the fact the MoF already IS about bridging that gap.

-2D perspective
-Metroidvania style exploration
-Darker atmosphere
-More platforming
-Traditonal Belmonts
-Heart sub-weapon system
-The CASTLE

To say Cox isn't listening with Mirror of Fate is absurd. The fact of the matter is everyone is going bonkers over one video taken by a non-professional, because, OMG, a skeleton took 3 too many hits.

Let's ignore the fact that throughout that video, there was maybe one or two real combos. He also spammed area attacks on melee enemies, never sync blocked, refused to use shadow magic, and over all played like a novice, if LoS is any measurement. And saying this to a Castlevania community, I'd think people would understand the attitude behind "play poorly get poor results". That, or Cox really is spot on with his Metroidvania assessment.

But that's honestly beside the point. This game was never supposed to be a Classicvania or a Metroidvania. Sure, it has elements, but at its core it's supposed to be a 2D rendition of Lords of Shadow, and what Lords of Shadow was most praised for was its combat, so reducing enemies to 1-2 hits with weak attacks would be entirely against the design philosophy. At that point, there really wouldn't be much point to combat other than being a platforming obstacle, which I know is what some people desperately want.

You don't have to like everything about MoF, and if you really are completely put off by the game's direction you have the right to be so, but at least understand that too much more "listening" and eventually you have a game that MercurySteam wasn't trying to make in the first place.

I just want a reason to get a 3DS other than this game and potentially Shin Megami Tensei 4. 

[e105beta]

I just want a reason to get a 3DS other than this game and potentially Shin Megami Tensei. 

Paper Mario 3DS? KH: Dream Drop Distance?

[Havatchu]

Paper Mario 3DS? KH: Dream Drop Distance?

Nah, I think I had my fill of both with Super Mario RPG, Paper Mario, and KH 1.

How far backwards is the 3DS backwards compatible with?

[GuyStarwind]

I just want a reason to get a 3DS other than this game and potentially Shin Megami Tensei. 

Fire Emblem: Awakening

[e105beta]

Nah, I think I had my fill of both with Super Mario RPG, Paper Mario, and KH 1.

How far backwards is the 3DS backwards compatible with?

Just the DS, I'm afraid

[Kingshango]

You say that, but I feel like everyone's forgetting the fact the MoF already IS about bridging that gap.

-2D perspective
-Metroidvania style exploration
-Darker atmosphere
-More platforming
-Traditonal Belmonts
-Heart sub-weapon system
-The CASTLE

To say Cox isn't listening with Mirror of Fate is absurd. The fact of the matter is everyone is going bonkers over one video taken by a non-professional, because, OMG, a skeleton took 3 too many hits.

Let's ignore the fact that throughout that video, there was maybe one or two real combos. He also spammed area attacks on melee enemies, never sync blocked, refused to use shadow magic, and over all played like a novice, if LoS is any measurement. And saying this to a Castlevania community, I'd think people would understand the attitude behind "play poorly get poor results". That, or Cox really is spot on with his Metroidvania assessment.

But that's honestly beside the point. This game was never supposed to be a Classicvania or a Metroidvania. Sure, it has elements, but at its core it's supposed to be a 2D rendition of Lords of Shadow, and what Lords of Shadow was most praised for was its combat, so reducing enemies to 1-2 hits with weak attacks would be entirely against the design philosophy. At that point, there really wouldn't be much point to combat other than being a platforming obstacle, which I know is what some people desperately want.

You don't have to like everything about MoF, and if you really are completely put off by the game's direction you have the right to be so, but at least understand that too much more "listening" and eventually you have a game that MercurySteam wasn't trying to make in the first place.

In all fairness, despite my complaints being the same as the others, im willing to give this game a fair shot. I like the fact that it is a Metroidvania, it takes place in a dark castle, we got our Dracula, it's 2D (well 2.5D but ehh close enough) multiple playable characters. Im already curious about the story and how it all leads up to LOS2 (and I want to see how Trevor got Vergil'ed).

[Havatchu]

Fire Emblem: Awakening

Will look into.

Just the DS, I'm afraid

That's fair enough, that's pretty much all I needed to hear since I have a GBA, but still want a GBA player for my Gamecube.

Tensei: Strange Journey and Dark Tower (Maybe Dark Spire?) are the only DS games other than the Castlevania and Mega Man ZX games I've been interested in the entire DS era.

[Johnny Alucard]

Paper Mario 3DS? KH: Dream Drop Distance?

You forgot Kid Icarus: Uprising, Theatrhythm Final Fantasy, Rhythm Thief & The Emperor's Treasure, and Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon.

Plus there's that Hotel Transylvania game that looks so heavily Metroidvania inspired.

[JR]

It seems like I keep seeing this game being referred to as a Metroidvania. I remember Cox going out of his way to explain that it won't be.

[DragonSlayr81]

Plus there's that Hotel Transylvania game that looks so heavily Metroidvania inspired.

Yeah, I saw screens of it. It looks awesome. Wayforward, no less. Why in the hell doesn't Konami get them to crank out some 2D(some, as in more than one) CVs?

It seems like I keep seeing this game being referred to as a Metroidvania. I remember Cox going out of his way to explain that it won't be.

It's splitting hairs. Cox probably finds some elaborate way to say how un-Metroidvania his games are because some "stigma" attached to that word. I still see it like this:

Vanilla Ice - Itty Bitty Ting

When you put so much energy to go out of your way to tell people it's not what they think, who are you REALLY trying to prove it to?

[Munchy]

Yeah, I saw screens of it. It looks awesome. Wayforward, no less. Why in the hell doesn't Konami get them to crank out some 2D(some, as in more than one) CVs?

Because Konami, in their infinite genius, decided WayForward's talent would be better spent on a Vita dungeon crawler Silent Hill no one will buy (half because no one asked for a non-horror Silent Hill, and half because Konami hasn't even told anyone when they're actually releasing it, just like with the MGS collection and Blades of Time).

All the hitting enemies a bunch talk reminds me... Which button does the area attack in this game? I recall hearing that it's Y, which would be really strange considering where it's placed in LoS1 (the top button, not the left one).

It seems like I keep seeing this game being referred to as a Metroidvania. I remember Cox going out of his way to explain that it won't be.

The way I understood it is this... It's like a Metroidvania in that the castle is one big level you traipse around, getting power ups that let you access areas previously off-limits. It's not a Metroidvania in that you don't get loots or beef up your character by killing guys, as experience is strictly for buying new combos.

So in this way, a better comparison might be just the Metroid games, where powering up means you have to hunt around the levels for items rather than having them drop from guys.

[Inccubus]

All the hitting enemies a bunch talk reminds me... Which button does the area attack in this game? I recall hearing that it's Y, which would be really strange considering where it's placed in LoS1 (the top button, not the left one).

If this is the case then that is a really stupid & pointless design choice. Moving buttons around in a sequel will just confuse players and lead to said 'poor' play style.

[JR]

It's splitting hairs. Cox probably finds some elaborate way to say how un-Metroidvania his games are because some "stigma" attached to that word. I still see it like this:

Vanilla Ice - Itty Bitty Ting

We can't really know that for sure until it comes out, though. I just remember the interview that came out around E3 where he stressed for several minutes how MoF isn't a Metroidvania. To me, it seemed like the gaming press was quick to throw the label on the game, and that was his way of telling them that a Metroidvania isn't something they should expect from this.

...oooooooorrrr yeah, he could just be full of crap. It could go either way.

[uzo]

Enemies taking over 9000 hits to kill is just counter intuitive in a tight 2D action game. The combat for Mirror of Fate is rooted in 3D gameplay theory, and restricting it to 2D is really hurting it.

If this was 3D, you could just go around the enemy and continue attacking, keeping the combat flowing and rake in more hits quickly. In 2D you need to back off, and wait. This makes slogging through the enemies a tedious and longer process than in Lords of Shadow.