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Offline Sorrow

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Re: Belmont Abilities.
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2014, 09:50:19 PM »
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« Last Edit: December 20, 2014, 02:26:00 PM by Sorrow »

Offline VladCT

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Re: Belmont Abilities.
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2014, 10:18:07 PM »
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As Inccubus said, it would be quite difficult to compile such a list, because quite a few of the games operate under different rules and power scales, the differences being either minor or major.
It is precisely because it never cared, that people do care.  It's something which it's lacking, because that which it has, it has lackluster of.
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Re: Belmont Abilities.
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2014, 12:46:32 AM »
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What you are asking is a very difficult question for all.
It is like asking people to compile a list of their favorite actors ranked according to their own preferences.
Everyone here is going for the safe route by giving broad answers since we don't want to start another flame war.

I would suggest to just play all the games, via emulator if you can't find the actual games, and do the ranking yourself.

Offline Neobelmont

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Re: Belmont Abilities.
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2014, 05:28:31 PM »
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Let's not forget the ancient Belmont ability of doing the backflip! Seriously why don't more Belmonts do this?

Why not the ancient ability of Strutting oh yeah check out DAT strut

The Belmont Walk
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Come on now this was going to happen eventually  :P

Offline X

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Re: Belmont Abilities.
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2014, 07:43:01 PM »
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Quote
Let's not forget the ancient Belmont ability of doing the backflip! Seriously why don't more Belmonts do this?

Cause Richter was the only one trained to do it.

Quote
Why not the ancient ability of Strutting oh yeah check out DAT strut

Ah yes. The infamous Belmont strut. Now THAT is a Belmont ability that spans almost the entire series. Although when it comes to thir descendants like Julius Belmont and Johnathan Morris, the strut is sadly lost on them.
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Offline Belmont legacy

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Re: Belmont Abilities.
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2014, 03:42:29 PM »
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This is a great question. I haven't played a ton of castlevania games (wish I had more time to) but I would say if you had Simon, Christopher (from belmonts revenge NOT adventure) Trevor and juste (only because he's Simons great grandson and I'm a Simon fanboy). I would say you have a good start there.
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Offline Jorge D. Fuentes

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Re: Belmont Abilities.
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2014, 08:02:28 AM »
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I suppose the best way to do this would be to give each Belmont a set of, say, six stats.
Then, use the abilities they use in their games to determine the stat's proficiency.
Lastly, for balance, we make sure that no character can have more points total than any other character.

So let's make that pool... say.... 80 points.

Strength, Defense, Speed, Dexterity, Magic, Magic Defense (normally I include Luck but I won't in this case, because as far as I know, there is no 'lucky belmont')
The average "Hero" would have some 12's, and some 13's (us normal humans would have abysmally smaller stats since we can't use magic, can't superjump, etc, and don't have knowledge of martial arts... though a bodybuilder may rank above a "Hero" in strength alone, and an olympic runner may trump a "Hero" in speed or dexterity).

Strength: affects hitting damage
Can be determined by observing the games and seeing how quickly some common foes fall.  You can probably also look at games like Judgment to see knockdown moves vs. combo moves.

Defense: affects taking hits
Can be determined by observing the game's artwork to see who has strong armor on, and who has abilities that can boost their defense.

Speed: affects movement speed
Can be determined by observing the games and looking for obvious movements that increase speed.  Most early games will have normal (12-13) speed heroes, but someone like Grant Danesti qualifies for higher speed due to his faster walking.  In later games, any hero that can both walk and run gets a speed bonus (Nathan, even if with a powerup).  Heroes that autorun (Jonathan, Soma) get a bonus as well.

Dexterity: related to evasive moves that can be performed
This one is easy.  Look at the abilities that characters can do to make themselves more agile.  Grant can climb walls, high-jump, hang on ceilings, and attack while doing all of it.  Soma Cruz has a backdash move and I think Julius Belmont do as well.  Richter gets a backflip and a moonwalk in Rondo, and a Superjump and a few other moves in SotN.

Magic: affects magical/mystical damage
This is determined by looking at the games' heroes and looking at the kind of magical power they wield.  If it is minimal, you get only a small bonus (or maybe none at all if you're purely physical like Grant), but you get a large bonus if it's your main forte (someone like Sypha, Carrie, or Juste get a large bonus, while someone with just an ItemCrash gets a normal bonus).

Magic Defense: affects avoiding/absorbing/nullifying spiritual damage of any kind
This is determined by moves (not relics) that allow you to soak up, heal, or nullify damage done by magic.  For example, Alucard's "Dark Metamorphosis" allows him to soak up life from the blood of enemies.  Sonia Belmont gets her "Burning Mode" which gives her invulnerability.  Richter gets a small bonus because of his Rebound Stone ItemCrash, which grants him his invincibility.  Using the Rosary doesn't count.

Now remember, the number of points is equal on each character.

So now we can do something like comparing Simon Belmont (kinda an average hero), to someone like Richter Belmont (quicker, more magic-oriented):

Simon Belmont
Strength
-Swings the whip fast, implying strength
-concept artwork has him really strong
-is able to swing himself using his whip, implying upper body strength
-it seems that he can do a lot of things while wearing Plate Mail, though it's not a full-body suit.

Defense
-it seems that he can do a lot of things while wearing Plate Mail, though it's not a full-body suit.

Speed
-average speed (no bonus)

Dexterity
-swinging from the whip requires some amount of dexterity
-climbing on stairs isn't something normal people can do, nor is jumping off of them (we bust our ass if we do that)
-can moonwalk on stairs

Magic
-aside from the subweapons (does it count?) nothing really.

Magic Defense
-he is able to have an entire game (CVII) while mystically cursed.  There's something to be said about that.  But no in-game innate ability.

So clearly, Simon does not excel at magic, but he would have more strength, defense, and dexterity than normal.  Here are the numbers (remember, average is 12-13 and we have to pool 80 total):

STR = 30
DEF = 20
SPD = 12
DEX = 15
MAG = 0
MGD = 3

Now we look at Richter Belmont:

Strength:  Blah blah 'strongest belmont by far' is bullshit and we're throwing it out the window.  It is just not a feasible thing to use.  Let's look at sheer damage in the games and the character artwork.  He doesn't 'appear' all that muscular in Rondo of Blood (concept art or in-game damage)... and certainly doesn't appear muscular in Symphony...

Defense:  Richter is not wearing any type of armor.  He seems to be wearing a monk's tunic in Rondo of Blood, and a Nobleman's Frock Coat in Symphony of the Night...

Speed:
-Richter can RUN!  Bonus

Dexterity:
-Richter can backflip.
-Richter can run.
-Richter can superjump
-Richter has a go-through-enemies attack that gives him invincibility
-Richter can slide
-Richter can moonwalk (Rondo)

Magic:
-Richter has ItemCrush by default.

Magic Defense:
-MINUS: Richter got his mind possessed by Shaft.  Though Simon was cursed, he was able to play through it.  Richter succumbed.
-Richter can somehow breathe underwater in Symphony of the Night.
-Richter has a go-through-enemies attack that gives him invincibility

Here are the stats I've determined for Richter:
STR = 14
DEF = 4
SPD = 18
DEX = 20
MAG = 16
MGD = 8

Not too bad, I think...

Unfortunately, this works more for the whole behind-the-scenes level-up RPG system than it does for visible in-game abilities.  Balancing out a game using old and new characters would be very challenging.

You might want to look into something like Serio's Castlevania fighter, which has multiple Belmonts, and see how their gameplay varies.  Or look into something like Judgment (where for example Simon's dextrous nature allows him to combo a lot of his whip hits, while Trevor's more armored gameplay focuses on knockdown moves and harder but less frequent hits).

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Offline Sorrow

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Re: Belmont Abilities.
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2014, 08:25:15 AM »
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Exactly the kind of answer I was looking for. I had drew up my own list quite a while ago now but didn't think there was any point in posting it then.

How I did it was also categorical though not number based but tier based instead. I made an attempt to balance but also stick true to the character. If story dictates they may be weak then they should be on the lower end of the spectrum in gameplay also.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2014, 02:27:34 PM by Sorrow »

Offline darkwzrd4

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Re: Belmont Abilities.
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2014, 09:46:42 AM »
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Let's keep in mind that we have only seen Julius's capability as a 55 year old man. If he was able to make part of the castle crumble as seen during the fight with him in AoS, imagine how powerful he was when he was young. Also, in DoS, he was able to destroy monsters without using a magic seal when it should be impossible to do so without one (again in his 50s).
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Offline Sorrow

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Re: Belmont Abilities.
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2014, 10:06:54 AM »
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Is there anything to say that he would be stronger due to his age though? Perhaps his magical/sub weapon abilities are so powerful BECAUSE of his advanced age and not in SPITE of.

Perhaps it could be said his physical abilities would have diminished but in most fantasy canons the older a magical user the stronger they are. Maybe also his ability to destroy the monsters without a magical seal is also because of his impressive magical abilities? We haven't seen any other Belmont aged so we can't really say either way. I think it's too presumptive to say he would be more awesome were he younger, it's like assuming Simon would be feeble in his 50s and not more powerful.

Offline X

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Re: Belmont Abilities.
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2014, 10:39:21 AM »
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I wish to correct you on one thing Foenix if you'd allow it.

Quote
Whip speed:
Juste
Richter/Johnathan
Simon/Trevor/
Julius/John
Christopher

If you'd played Castlevania II then you'd know that Simon's whipping speed surpasses all other Belmonts. That being the case I'd move Simon to the top of the chart for whip speed. Believe me, in CV II Simon's whip strikes are fast. It's almost rapid fire.
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Offline Jorge D. Fuentes

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Re: Belmont Abilities.
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2014, 10:45:43 AM »
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I would say that Christopher would be an oddball, but in a good way:

1. slow movement (walking, no running, no sliding)
2. incredible prowess with the whip due to upper-body strength (he does climb soooo many ropes).  I think he might swing the whip faster than even Simon.
3. above-average magic usage.  He's the one that can concentrate his powers and shoot energy blasts from his whip.  Simon required magicians to power it up.
4. some minimal amount of armor already puts him above average in terms of defense.

So he would lack in speed and dexterity, but have speed and strength up, with a little magic peppered in there.
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Offline darkwzrd4

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Re: Belmont Abilities.
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2014, 01:01:00 PM »
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Is there anything to say that he would be stronger due to his age though? Perhaps his magical/sub weapon abilities are so powerful BECAUSE of his advanced age and not in SPITE of.

Perhaps it could be said his physical abilities would have diminished but in most fantasy canons the older a magical user the stronger they are. Maybe also his ability to destroy the monsters without a magical seal is also because of his impressive magical abilities? We haven't seen any other Belmont aged so we can't really say either way. I think it's too presumptive to say he would be more awesome were he younger, it's like assuming Simon would be feeble in his 50s and not more powerful.
True. Typically magic users grow more powerful with age, but here is one piece of evidence to indicate that's not the case with Julius. In DoS, right before he cracks the barrier in the condemned tower, he tells Arikado that he could break it, but it's unlikely that he would have enough energy to fight. Then after he breaks it, he's down on one knee and tells Soma that growing old is a terrible thing. This seems to indicate that when he was younger, not only would he have been able to break the barrier, but he would also have the energy to fight afterwards.
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Offline UNS0C1AL FR3AK

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Re: Belmont Abilities.
« Reply #28 on: March 12, 2014, 01:57:48 PM »
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For me, Id say Richter Belmont. He is considered the most powerful Belmont (Julius aside). In Harmony of Despair, his whip damage output was the greatest of all the whip characters. Not to mention he is BADASS! Also to mention, one HYDRO STORM! In Symphony Of The Night would decimate bosses in one (maybe 2) crashes. You cant tell me that Julius could do better.

Offline RegalSin

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Re: Belmont Abilities.
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2014, 10:44:20 PM »
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Simon Belmont is the most powerful whip from the SNES IV game. That whip was like wow, I do not think any other game after that had that whip. Ritchet is the most powerful, in a nutshell. But compared to Simon he is nothing.

I don't know if the GBA games count.

 

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