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Offline AlexCalvo

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Netflix Animated series, references beyond Dracula's Curse
« on: March 09, 2017, 09:04:56 AM »
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Do you expect any elements of the story/continuity presented outside the original Dracula's Curse NES game to be acknowledged or referenced by the netflix series?  If so how much do you think is reasonable?

I would honestly be completely satisfied if it includes nothing from outside what was set down in Dracula's Curse in 1990, and would consider it completely faithful to the source material, given that at the end of the day this is an adaption of Castlevania 3: Dracula's Curse, and not an adaptation of the mid 1470's in the canon of the series as a whole.  Hopefully you guys understand what I mean by that.

Now, that doesn't mean I wouldn't be absolutely delighted to see more of the series canon acknowledged, just that it is not a necessity for me.  Here is a list of non-Dracula's Curse series canon that could potentially tie into the animated series.

The Lisa storyline from SoTN, Dracula has a human wife, Lisa, she is Alucard's mother, she is burned as a witch by villagers because of her use of natural medicine.  This is all but assured to be present, it has been in the script since it's earliest incarnation.

The events of LoI, the origin of the Belmont family's monster hunting, the creation of the vampire killer, and Dracula's transformation into a vampire.  I assume we will either get a quick reference, or the whole topic of origins will be glossed over completely.  I seriously doubt they will directly contradict anything.

The characters and prelude events to CoD, which tells us that Dracula had 2 very important generals, one of which betrayed him at the outset of his war against humanity.  I doubt we'll see any reference to this at all, given CoD's general standing even within the Castlevania community, the fact that the game came out 15 years after Cv3, and it's minimal impact on the continuity as a whole.

The concept of “Chaos” and how it relates to Dracula's power as explained in AoS and DoS.  I imagine this will work much like any LoI reference, in that it would be quick, only really noticeable to long time fans of the series who are looking for it, or just nothing at all, without contradicting the games.

What do you guys think?
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 09:12:50 AM by AlexCalvo »
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13104670/1/Castlevania-Birth-of-the-Dragon

Dracula was not always a monster. He was once a man named Mathias Cronqvist. A flawed, conflicted, genius of a man. How did the educated, aristocratic, crusader who piously served the church become a vampire, and eventually the Dark Lord himself, the opposing force to God? From a very young age terrors and tragedy shaped the man into the king of all evil. This is his story.

Offline theplottwist

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Re: Netflix Animated series, references beyond Dracula's Curse
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2017, 09:50:08 AM »
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I don't even expect them to be true to what the CVIII manual says (and it says a lot). Much less to the rest of the canon. By what I've read from that ages-old script, they appear to be acknowledging Lisa for two reasons:

-Perfect fodder to turn Dracula evil.
-The fans are incredibly familiar with her story thanks to SotN, so they can't call her some random name like "Amelia" or try to reference Mina Harker. Because I'm sure they would in a heartbeat.

That's it. It looked like there was no "canon acknowledgment" to it. As if they were doing it only because  it was easier to hasten Dracula's evil turning.

And I don't expect Dracula to be a Demon King and literal root of evil or anything like that. I expect more of a "nah Dracula is just really scary and likes the 'dark lord' moniker because it sounds evil" cliché. Its easier for westerners to grasp and sounds !!!!MORE PLAUSIBLE!!!!. I also expect outright references to Satan, too, for the same reasons (easier to grasp, sounds more "plausible" to make him into a devil worshipper than the actual devil, etc etc).

There are people wanting to see Devil Forgemasters, wanting the second season to be about SotN, and I'm here thinking that these people might be in for a big disappointment because this series -- until now -- is giving those strong "we don't give a fuck for the canon" and "Hector who?" vibes. Reading that script and Ellis' words on the matter only drives this feeling further.

And, thinking about it, maybe this is not bad at all. They don't give a fuck for the canon, most of the fans also don't, most people win, a handful losers get bitter, another Tuesday for Bison.

I have very, veeeeeery low expectations. If the series don't make an ass of Castlevania, that's already good. My bar is so low that a toddler could jump over it. But it'll sure hurt to see Sypha be a "Speaker" instead of a witch sent by the Church. And God knows what they did to Grant...
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 10:12:07 AM by theplottwist »
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Offline AlexCalvo

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Re: Netflix Animated series, references beyond Dracula's Curse
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2017, 10:56:24 AM »
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What about the fact that IGA was heavily involved in the scripts re-writes early on?  According to the old blog they sent updated  scripts to him several times before getting his approval.  I know that was a long time ago, but it makes me feel better, as I am sure a lot of the weirdness in Ellis first draft would have been tweaked to get IGA' s approval.  But then again, he did the same for The Belmont Legacy comic  :-\
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13104670/1/Castlevania-Birth-of-the-Dragon

Dracula was not always a monster. He was once a man named Mathias Cronqvist. A flawed, conflicted, genius of a man. How did the educated, aristocratic, crusader who piously served the church become a vampire, and eventually the Dark Lord himself, the opposing force to God? From a very young age terrors and tragedy shaped the man into the king of all evil. This is his story.

Offline Nagumo

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Re: Netflix Animated series, references beyond Dracula's Curse
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2017, 01:24:48 PM »
+1
I expect the amount of continuity references to be the same as in the Belmont Legacy. I expect/hope that because of IGA's past involvement it's going to follow his canon without any conflicts, but there might be some "weirdness" (think the Totoyan family from the Belmont Legacy). On the other, I expect some details from CV3's plot to be ignored since Ellis mentioned he was interested in doing that and he got permission from IGA to do so. I'm fine with that since IGA occasionally ignores details from pre-SotN games. At least, I'm fine with it as long as it isn't lore that has been firmly established by IGA's own games.

By the way, this is just my take on things, even though this is called an adaptation of CV3, we know Lisa is going to be involved, and I assume they are going use Alucard's backstory and look from SotN, so in my mind it already isn't a "pure" adaptation. This is not a problem for me since I actually see this series as an adaptation of the "1470s events" of the timeline.

Offline Lumi Kløvstad

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Re: Netflix Animated series, references beyond Dracula's Curse
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2017, 06:18:39 PM »
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Honestly, I kind of hope that it doesn't reference anything at all beyond the scope of what's presently being told. Maybe like pulling a Disney "we'll shove a character from another story into this crowd here as an easter egg", but no more than that. In my opinion, Castlevania needs a fresh start, and whether any of us like it or not this is literally the only contender for restarting the franchise as a viable object in any fashion.

If this project fails, I fully expect Castlevania to die entirely with it. But the wages of victory are potentially equally massive too.

So I hope they stick to the matter at hand, and tell the story well. They really have too much riding on the line to bog things down with references to stories that chronologically won't happen for at least a century.
How not to be a dark lord: the answer to that is a terribly interesting answer that involves an almost Jedi-like adherence to keeping oneself under control and finding ways to be true to yourself in a way that doesn't encourage the worst parts of you to become dangerously exaggerated and instead feeds your better nature. Also, protip: don't fuck with Alchemy or strike up any deals with ancient Japanese Shinigami gods no matter how tempting the deal or how suavely dressed the Shinigami is.

Offline theplottwist

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Re: Netflix Animated series, references beyond Dracula's Curse
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2017, 11:35:23 AM »
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What about the fact that IGA was heavily involved in the scripts re-writes early on? According to the old blog they sent updated  scripts to him several times before getting his approval.

I had some faith in that, but from the last word we got from the script, it seems not even IGA's involvement saved it. I doubt he went to Ellis and said "make Sypha into a not-witch just because" or "c'mon put some goat jokes in there, I'm sure people will love it". Those were Ellis' ideas that I'm almost certain didn't have IGA involved at all.

Now there appears to be no "Castlevania headmaster" to keep an eye for this stuff. Back then, since IGA was involved, I had some faith. Now that there is no one to control these "I PLAYED CASTLEVANIA WHEN I WAS LITTLE LOL" guys, I'm afraid we'll get worse things than goat jokes. I'm PRAYING to be wrong and there is a huge possibility I am, but I'm still very salty about that castle poster. Very. I said months ago that they would turn the castle into a parody/stereotypical evil castle, and watching it turn real into the form of a poster, even if it is a possibly preliminary design, made me quite sour about this whole subject.

So I hope they stick to the matter at hand, and tell the story well. They really have too much riding on the line to bog things down with references to stories that chronologically won't happen for at least a century.

I second this. It will be better to make no references at all, than to hype shit up and screw things at the last second.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2017, 11:49:30 AM by theplottwist »
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Offline Belmontoya

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Re: Netflix Animated series, references beyond Dracula's Curse
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2017, 12:55:41 PM »
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Just because lords of shadow was a failure, that doesn't mean that Castlevania wasn't in need of a change.

I'm ok with allowing a new director to make some changes. Especially considering that this is just a cartoon.

Just make it good.

It's sucks that some fans disagree with each other about this. But we've been through all of this before.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2017, 01:18:36 PM by Belmontoya »
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Offline AlexCalvo

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Re: Netflix Animated series, references beyond Dracula's Curse
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2017, 01:45:52 PM »
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I get that some people really want to vent their frustrations, and I'm not going to tell anyone that they aren't valid or wrong or anything, but I think we should try to avoid turning every topic about the series into a back and forth between those for and against it.  Let's just keep to the topic at hand.

I was never talking about winks to other games just to reference those games.  I just thought it would be interesting to discuss what elements of the Canon which were presented post-Dracula's Curse, but affected the story in terms of continuity, that could potentially come up.  That's different from something like ham fisting the concept of glyphs, or the Morris clan, or Dracula reincarnating in somewhere specifically as a wink to long time fans.

As I said I am perfectly fine with them making a straight up Dracula's Curse series, completely divorced from anything not present in the actual game.  But I think given the people involved there is a possibility for more.  The only direct response I'll make is to theplottwist, I think you are being way to harsh on shankar.  I know his style is a little weird but he is certainly a fanboy of the things he adapts.  How familiar are you with his work?  He is exactly the kind of guy to drop a reference to the wider continuity where it fits.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2017, 07:40:18 AM by AlexCalvo »
https://www.fanfiction.net/s/13104670/1/Castlevania-Birth-of-the-Dragon

Dracula was not always a monster. He was once a man named Mathias Cronqvist. A flawed, conflicted, genius of a man. How did the educated, aristocratic, crusader who piously served the church become a vampire, and eventually the Dark Lord himself, the opposing force to God? From a very young age terrors and tragedy shaped the man into the king of all evil. This is his story.

Offline zangetsu468

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Re: Netflix Animated series, references beyond Dracula's Curse
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2017, 02:48:05 PM »
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Now that Lisa has been confirmed, I'm concerned about her being pulled in purely for a narrative convention that makes Dracula snap and go "snap, crackle, and evil". I say this because I'm almost certain that references to other games will be few and far between, I'm not certain they're going to explore what could have been an interesting juxtaposition between the type of man Dracula was vs the type of woman Lisa was (stated to be like the Virgin Mary), and Dracula may not have waged his war on humanity until Lisa's execution, however, he had still turned his back on and cursed God prior to this. at this point it seems Lisa will be some flashback link to Alucard which could 'explain away' the evilness of Dracula.

On a side note, did any one watch Hokuto no Ken/ Fist of the North Star animated film in the 90's? The way they handled Ray's character in an entrance scene, he was initially (though for a short time) thought to be a woman cloaked in a garb/ veil and was revealed as a man. It would be cool if there was a twist dynamic with Sypha's character where her identity and gender not be revealed to stay faithful to the game, even though the fans will know.

There is always hope for Castlevania, I won't lose hope that one day the series will get its mojo back or that a game such as Bloodstained will take over.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[Judgement]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                              
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                                 ^      l   v  ^    +<<<<<<<BE
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                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     BE>>> VK<**   
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     ^          ^   
            +<<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64       ^
            v                           l              ^                ^
            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE    RE
            v                           l      ^               ^       ^
LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS>>>KD
                                                                          v
                                                                         BE>*  
BE=Bad Ending
RE=Richter Ending

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