Topic: "The Dragon Returns" - Castlevania Lords of Shadow Sequel (HERE BE SPOILER INFO)

[RichterB]

Curious. There are only a handful of posters in this thread it seems like...

Anyway...

*I actually think it is extremely admirable and responsible of Cox and MS not to stick with Castlevania and their version of it. Castlevania has always been best when no one had a monopoly on it. The concept of it is very fluid in its execution, allowing for many different takes. I honestly think the concept of a timeline has become superfluous--it's really at the expense of the franchise long-term. You can't solve gameplay with story; these are games, not movies or novels. Regardless, if one person had been in charge of Castlevania always, it's far less likely that we'd have had the fun variety we did in the 80s and 90s. For instance, Super Castlevania IV and Bloodlines are equally valid, but distinct takes on the same source material; and the same could be said for bigger outliers like Simon's Quest, SotN (for its time), CV64/LoD, etc). If given the opportunity, trust, and resources, I'm positive there are other, equally valid ways to capture the future of Castlevania in 2D and 3D, and do it in ways that exceed our expectations.

*I think the "future timeline" seen at the end of LoS will be at least a part of LoS2. This is the "conclusion," so it has to deal with that. Essentially, it's like getting the 1999 battle of this timeline. One wonders if the "new threat" could include modern weaponry and soldiers...Wouldn't surprise me given that this LoS series has taken some influences from the Underworld movie series already.

*Dracula getting his hands dirty, as someone noted earlier, actually is reminiscent of Sauron's rampage from Lord of the Rings: FotR--big evil dude gets into the middle of a siege on his tower and sends armored knights flying around in clumps like bowling pins.

*If Alucard is a mirror image of Trevor as some say, maybe he isn't Trevor, but Trevor's own "Lord of Shadow"? (The series has a strange title if there is only one Lord of Shadow left for two of the three games; especially since that Lord of Shadow is Dracula).

EDIT: To my first bullet point reply, I have to add that I get the feeling that Lords of Shadow and Lords of Shadow 2 were ultimately attempts to make Castlevania palatable to modern gamers who have a fixed (perhaps even limited) image of what "action games" are, due to titles like God of War. Konami wanted an answer to that trend/their own dog to put in that race. On the other hand, I get the feeling that Mirror of Fate is more of an attempt to please a wider audience and keep Castlevania relevant in the portable market, while rebuilding the brand's overall presence/frequency in the overall marketplace.

[Reinhart77]

One question I have is, how will the gameplay be in this one?

oh that's right, i completely forgot to ponder about the gameplay.

i guess one starting point is to think of him as a combination of his "Gabriel" persona except with a fire whip and Laura.  i wonder if the fire whip will be his "main" attack, or more of a special attack that requires him to first suck some blood before using?  if he doesn't have a sword or constant whip, i guess all his moves that don't involve his fangs or claws might drain some energy that gets replenished with blood.  there's plenty of powerful attacks from other games that can make cameos in his arsenal.  i'm sure he'll have plenty of nasty grab attacks that require some some QTE.  and then of course there's shapeshifting.  his gauntlet also seems to have returned.

another possibility (unlikely?) is that he could play rather similarly to Soma in that he could call upon all sorts of monsters for special abilities.

i have to wonder who he will be fighting in the game.  will it be humans, including Brotherhood knights, with the occasional Belmont and Titan as a boss?  the "acolytes of Satan", including all sorts of devil worshippers and hellspawn?  or even the monsters of his own castle that he needs to defeat in order to retrieve his power source in the castle and regain his mastery over them.  or all of the above?

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

Yeah I agree I would've like one more game (due to my ocd) but you have an excellent point it will be sad but maybe this will allow for others to try their hand and see if maybe there could be a game we all could get behind.

Although I dig your signature pic, it's kinda large...

[Lumas]

Although I dig your signature pic, it's kinda large...

Thats what she said.

[Charlotte-nyo:3]

I have a perplexing question. Do you guys think Konami and the higher ups will end up letting Cox and MS leave CV after this as they indicate they want to? I remember vaguely what happened with MGS and Kojima saying so-and-so MGS entry will be his last one and the team he trained with carry on with it, then being goaded back into doing more and more of them. That may not be the same situation, but this situation certainly reminds me of it.

[Lumas]

I have a perplexing question. Do you guys think Konami and the higher ups will end up letting Cox and MS leave CV after this as they indicate they want to? I remember vaguely what happened with MGS and Kojima saying so-and-so MGS entry will be his last one and the team he trained with carry on with it, then being goaded back into doing more and more of them. That may not be the same situation, but this situation certainly reminds me of it.

That's a good point and an interesting one to ponder upon.....

[GuyStarwind]

Okay did they announce Cox was only doing three games? I know the site said the the shocking conclusion but is there some other word on?

[RichterB]

I have a perplexing question. Do you guys think Konami and the higher ups will end up letting Cox and MS leave CV after this as they indicate they want to? I remember vaguely what happened with MGS and Kojima saying so-and-so MGS entry will be his last one and the team he trained with carry on with it, then being goaded back into doing more and more of them. That may not be the same situation, but this situation certainly reminds me of it.

Oh, this is definitely a possibility. Yes. But I hope not. If LoS2 is not a dramatic departure from 1, and there's been no indication that it will be, I don't think you can do much more with such a combo-centric game design. It can only be "upgraded" so much in this form. And I rather like the idea of freeing up the franchise to do things where it might be able to please more diverse groups of old and new.

It seems like Mirror of Fate may be the more experimental of the two games with more room to grow in concept. We'll have to wait and see.

For the record, I think that the Simon and Trevor designs may be the coolest things to come out of LoS universe so far.

oh that's right, i completely forgot to ponder about the gameplay.

i guess one starting point is to think of him as a combination of his "Gabriel" persona except with a fire whip and Laura.  i wonder if the fire whip will be his "main" attack, or more of a special attack that requires him to first suck some blood before using?  if he doesn't have a sword or constant whip, i guess all his moves that don't involve his fangs or claws might drain some energy that gets replenished with blood.  there's plenty of powerful attacks from other games that can make cameos in his arsenal.  i'm sure he'll have plenty of nasty grab attacks that require some some QTE.  and then of course there's shapeshifting.  his gauntlet also seems to have returned.

another possibility (unlikely?) is that he could play rather similarly to Soma in that he could call upon all sorts of monsters for special abilities.

i have to wonder who he will be fighting in the game.  will it be humans, including Brotherhood knights, with the occasional Belmont and Titan as a boss?  the "acolytes of Satan", including all sorts of devil worshippers and hellspawn?  or even the monsters of his own castle that he needs to defeat in order to retrieve his power source in the castle and regain his mastery over them.  or all of the above?

You forgot about the possibility of enemy soldiers, tanks, planes, Titan-like "robots," etc if this takes place at all in the future.

I have a feeling the speculated "transformations" of LoS2 will probably play like the various monster "mounts" of LoS1. Like you stated, I think a lot of the basic gameplay will be pieces of what we've seen. The level design is going to be the make or break part, IMO.

[Reinhart77]

*I actually think it is extremely admirable and responsible of Cox and MS not to stick with Castlevania and their version of it. Castlevania has always been best when no one had a monopoly on it. The concept of it is very fluid in its execution, allowing for many different takes. I honestly think the concept of a timeline has become superfluous--it's really at the expense of the franchise long-term. You can't solve gameplay with story; these are games, not movies or novels. Regardless, if one person had been in charge of Castlevania always, it's far less likely that we'd have had the fun variety we did in the 80s and 90s. For instance, Super Castlevania IV and Bloodlines are equally valid, but distinct takes on the same source material; and the same could be said for bigger outliers like Simon's Quest, SotN (for its time), CV64/LoD, etc). If given the opportunity, trust, and resources, I'm positive there are other, equally valid ways to capture the future of Castlevania in 2D and 3D, and do it in ways that exceed our expectations.

good points.  i'm rather "emotionally" committed to the original timeline myself and hope its returned to some day.  in the meantime, i'm fine if they continue LoS past the original 3 or start another new timeline with other developers.  maybe irrespective of whether Iga or MS is making the game, Japanese developers will add to the "Akumajo Dracula" timeline or spins offs, while western developers will mainly add to the foundation of the Lords of Shadow games.  i'd be very pleased if that's how things went.

[JR]

Okay did they announce Cox was only doing three games? I know the site said the the shocking conclusion but is there some other word on?

Cox essentially confirmed this on Twitter:

"It will be up to others to take up the torch, however they see fit."

[Reinhart77]

You forgot about the possibility of enemy soldiers, tanks, planes, Titan-like "robots," etc if this takes place at all in the future.

I have a feeling the speculated "transformations" of LoS2 will probably play like the various monster "mounts" of LoS1. Like you stated, I think a lot of the basic gameplay will be pieces of what we've seen. The level design is going to be the make or break part, IMO.

You're right, I forgot, guess its unnatural of thinking of those things being in a Castlevania game, even though they have crept in here and there.  Good comparison between the forms and mounts.

[darkmanx_429]

Speaking of IGA, I have yet to even hear him comment on Lords of Shadow or the new timeline at all! I would love to hear his perspective on how he feels about the new games!

[Vrakanox]

I was hoping for Alucards journey through darkness but Cox said Dracula is the main character. We shall see.

[Reinhart77]

Speaking of IGA, I have yet to even hear him comment on Lords of Shadow or the new timeline at all! I would love to hear his perspective on how he feels about the new games!

I think I heard of him saying he liked them, but that's about it.  Maybe it was at a convention when both LoS and HD were being presented?  If he's such a fan of Castlevania, I imagine it might be nice to sit back and be a fan again of a game rather than its producer.  What I'm very curious to see is how many elements in LoS related games end up making a cameo in one of his games (assuming he does more).  A part of a song, a name drop, a stage, an enemy, the name of a piece of equipment.  His games certainly had plenty of references in LoS.  Will his games ever acknowledge LoS existed and is part of the fabric of Castlevania now? 

[GuyStarwind]

Cox essentially confirmed this on Twitter:

"It will be up to others to take up the torch, however they see fit."

Ah, thank you.