Topic: "The Dragon Returns" - Castlevania Lords of Shadow Sequel (HERE BE SPOILER INFO)

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

At least Soma Cruz 'floats' on water, like a normal human.
Ironic, considering...

[Ahasverus]

Because it just doesn't matter, every franchise plays by its own rules.
From where I see it, that makes sense, but the fact of having fall damage in Mirror of Fate does not, though in real life it would be exactly the opposite.

You are contradicting yourself don't you think? we get it, you hate the LoS series it's nonsense to you and every aspect of it is a deprture that shouldn't be done that way. I'm all for arguments and discussion but god I feel this is 2008 again (or 2009, or 2010, or 2011...)

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

I don't mind fall damage if it's somewhat logical and somewhat reasonable (gameplay-wise).
Hell, I didn't mind it in CV64/LoD.  Falling from too far was even death!

I'm ok with it.

Boomerang Kid (NES game) had you dying if you fell two tiles.  TWO TILES!  Unreasonable.
LoI has you falling hilarious heights, no damage.  Not logical.  Gameplay-wise it's also reasonable because "Lol videogame physics".

The minute the game tries to be too realistic, it starts to become more of an annoyance.

[uzo]

While i love the explanation uzo gave, still i would like a more logical explanation, like why Richter or Maria can go underwater and stay there eternally, without drowning on SoTN, when on the previous game they can't?

They purchased a holy symbol snorkel in that time.

[Pfil]

You are contradicting yourself don't you think? we get it, you hate the LoS series it's nonsense to you and every aspect of it is a deprture that shouldn't be done that way. I'm all for arguments and discussion but god I feel this is 2008 again (or 2009, or 2010, or 2011...)

You are taking it out of context. See how the conversation was before that message and you will find no contradiction.

Dark Nemesis said that he wanted an explanation on why Richter and Maria don't drown in water.

And I said that it is because it doesn't matter, for every franchise play by its own rules, and in Castlevania, the way I see it, it does make sense that fact about Richter and Maria, but fall damage in MoF didn't make sense.
Within CV rules, the fact they don't drown makes sense and the fall damage does not.

I guess it's pretty clear for everyone else.

You can understand it, as well, I guess. You seem smart in our pictures.
Or you can just downvote me as so many others, so many times before, just because I don't like LoS.
Whatever...

And to be clear, yes, I hate almost everything about the LoS series, but if you've been reading, you should have noticed by now that I like Gabriel as a character, that I liked LoS story, that I loved Gabriel's tragic tale on both games, and that I love Trevor's new design, as well as the Reverie DLC and Laura as a character.
Better focus on the games you like and have already available and/or coming out right now instead of focusing on everyone who doesn't like LoS.
It's already hard enough for me with MS alone (and with the lack of ClassicVania and MetroidVania for 5 LONG years), especially with Araujo's superb compositions.

And now... I prepare myself for the waterfall of -1s.
Next time I'm going to say something negative about LoS, I better think it twice 

[uzo]

If you want an actual reason why Richter can breathe underwater forever in SotN, it is because Richter was a last minute addition to the game. He has no equipment, relics, items, or anything else other than the basic gameplay. There was not enough time to add in those elements, which would have been necessary for Richter to reach completion of the map if they were enforced. Thus, Richter has total mobility in water.

Maria, being added later after the initial release, simply follows the conventions of the first released version, copying Richter's formula of gameplay and ability progression.

Circle of the Moon likely aped this convention as the new 'standard'. Harmony of Dissonance didn't quite shove you into any noticeable positions with being underwater. It wasn't until Aria of Sorrow that the reflection on this hastily included convention was tackled. Now you have the convention that would have been likely set by Richter in SotN if they indeed had the time, or cared to, make him the main playable character or give his progression collectible relics. The player floats, and cannot swim under water until a magical relic allowing underwater breath and mobility is found.

[Flame]

Press X to say "Aaah..."
Press OX to say "Aaah...
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Press OXOXXO to say "Aaah..."

Success!

Sounds like a porn game...

[Ahasverus]

stuff

It's nothing personal, it's just that sometimes you complain about the most trivial things, you have the "OldKastlevania4lifezLoSZucksorrs" that most of this forum loves (avalanche of -1's? change that for +1's, I'm and old active member and my rep is the lowest of the bunch because, god forbid, I dislike some aspects of the old series and like some of the new, loving both.. well, except for mof).

See, the fall damage is a design choice, rules dont matter, and old Castlevania didn't have any /rules/, old Belmonts DROWNED after touching waters,there's no universal Castlevania "rule" see? sometimes it appears that you can't lose a chance for bashnig LoS even if you have to invent the most abstract stuff to prove your point, as a fan I have the right to feel offended, and note, I'd do the same if the same reasoning was used for critizising that way Ecclesia or Aria or Symphony or whatever (except PoR, tht game is inexcusable, and DoS is meh).

MoF focused in platfforming (bad o good you decide) and so they needed a penality for falling high heights, becasue, you know, that's failing in platfforming; the old games had insta deaths, MoF is not as punishing but it still had a penality, see? It's a design choice, the metroidvanias were not platfformers they focused in navigation and loot that's why they didn't have those restrictions, it's not about "rules" of a universe (being castlevania one of the most inconsistent ones ever created). But I don't hope I could change your mind as I see you are rooted in your beliefs, and that's fine, I salute you and applaud you, but mind you, you'll always have someone like me standing on the other side.

Sounds like a porn game...

I'd buy that

[Flame]

On the fall damage...

Well lets put it this way. it's far better than when you let go of a ledge in LoS, getting instakilled, despite being only a few feet off the ground, because you didn't get down via the ledge.

That pissed me off. If I want to jump off the cliff and skip the ledges, I should be able to, given the height off the ground is no more than Gabe has done before or will do later. It felt really forced. This was PARTICULARLY present in the Aghartan ruins, Land of the Lycans.

[Ahasverus]

This was PARTICULARLY present in the Aghartan ruins, Land of the Lycans.

Those levels are the worst designed stuff I've seen in a AAA game. No surprise why people quitted there. The real game began  for me in the last level before Cornell, the jump in quality is at the same time astounding and baffling.

[DragonSlayr81]

I don't mind fall damage if it's somewhat logical and somewhat reasonable (gameplay-wise).
Hell, I didn't mind it in CV64/LoD.  Falling from too far was even death!

I'm ok with it.

Boomerang Kid (NES game) had you dying if you fell two tiles.  TWO TILES!  Unreasonable.
LoI has you falling hilarious heights, no damage.  Not logical.  Gameplay-wise it's also reasonable because "Lol videogame physics".

The minute the game tries to be too realistic, it starts to become more of an annoyance.

The less "realistic" penalties, the better. Now, I'm willing to let slide(though still dislike) fall damage taken by a HUMAN character. But a non-human, VAMPIRE, there is NO good reason to include such a thing. EVER! Alucard and this game's Dracula shouldn't get hurt if they fall the length of a skyscraper. They are fuckin VAMPIRES. There's no way to justify that while trying to demonstrate how badass the LoS versions of Alucard and Dracula are, because if you are a badass vampire and you still get hurt from falling, you aren't THAT badass. That's like a werewolf getting mortally wounded by tripping over a stuffed animal. That dog won't hunt, Monsignor!

[DoctaMario]

I bugged up on that sentence. In the 64 version I only got past the forest of silence with reinhardt. Also, cv64 messed up on the control and camera( I clearly remember in the villa when the chainsaw man chasing me that the camera just got stuck in an area and I weas like no!!!! and then I died that was such a glitch and I'll tell you this has never happened to me in lod just the vanilla version) badly and lod improved upon that also, if I can beat  lod with all four characters, three of them on the hardest difficulty (Carrie I cannot remember honestly) then something is very,very, wrong. All the mess ups in cv64 are improved upon in lod not perfected, but impropved enough that this one can beat it more than once and let me tell you lod is one of my favorites 

The levels have much better design in CV64 imo. They make more sense, and are laid out much more like what they're supposed to be. Forest of Silence doesn't have as much of the odd cliff scaling and resembles a forest much more than it does in LoD. The Tower of Sorcery in CV64 simply blows away the one in LoD. You should run through CV64 once just to say you've done it, and I think you may agree with me. I was disappointed they they overhauled the levels like they did.

I do agree with your other points though. CV64 was pretty messy, especially in terms of the camera.

[darkwzrd4]

The less "realistic" penalties, the better. Now, I'm willing to let slide(though still dislike) fall damage taken by a HUMAN character. But a non-human, VAMPIRE, there is NO good reason to include such a thing. EVER! Alucard and this game's Dracula shouldn't get hurt if they fall the length of a skyscraper. They are fuckin VAMPIRES. There's no way to justify that while trying to demonstrate how badass the LoS versions of Alucard and Dracula are, because if you are a badass vampire and you still get hurt from falling, you aren't THAT badass. That's like a werewolf getting mortally wounded by tripping over a stuffed animal. That dog won't hunt, Monsignor!

This I agree with....mostly. Yes, humans should take fall damage, but I don't think that non-human characters should be immune to fall damage. They should still take it, but a lot less. For example, if a human would take 40 points of damage from falling a long way, a vampire character would only take 4 damage from a fall of the same height. Vampires and other non-humans are not invincible. They're just much more durable than humans and this would show that.

[DoctaMario]

Those levels are the worst designed stuff I've seen in a AAA game. No surprise why people quitted there. The real game began  for me in the last level before Cornell, the jump in quality is at the same time astounding and baffling.

I almost felt like they designed those first three chapters with another game in mind. I was kind of on the fence about whether I liked LoS until I hit the 4th chapter. The Besieged Town seemed like it belonged but a lot of the Aghartian stuff up until Chapter 4 was kinda O_o

[Flame]

I had no trouble with it. It was different, sunny, nice, yes, but Castlevania is no stranger to exploring other environments "en-route" to the castle, so I took it in stride. It wasn't all gloomy and dark, but it was still ancient ruins, which are definitely a staple of classicvanias. There was ONE scaling point I disliked though, because the sun was positioned just right so that it obscured the glowing grapple point, leaving me to wonder where I was supposed to go next.