Topic: "The Dragon Returns" - Castlevania Lords of Shadow Sequel (HERE BE SPOILER INFO)

[Ahasverus]

I think just a namedropping in a scroll or some painting is enough, Saint German design just doesn't fit the LoS universe.

[darkmanx_429]

Well, I will hypothesize.

Imagine that at the end of Lords of Shadow 2, Gabriel the Dracul becomes an even greater evil than Satan, threatening destroy the world effectivelly. Then a time traveller or some other sort of time manipulator (Hell, this could be Trevucard himself, wanting to give his father and himself a new destiny after happening upon Frankenstein's hidden Time Machine!) is sent back in time to prevent that Gabriel is ever abandoned as a bastard from the Cronqvist family, in hopes to avert his whole destiny (and even Zobek's own plans). By not being abandoned, Gabriel Cronqvist does not become Dracul, but his son in this new timeline, Mathias, becomes Dracula.

I do not know how the rest would unfold, however. I think that for a time-travel plot tieing to the canon to really work, the time-traveller/manipulator would have to go even farther and prevent that the Brotherhood  is even formed, maybe by killing Zobek while he is wearing the Death Mask (Which would effectivelly make him the final boss, and defeating him would make the Death Mask give rise to his soul becoming the canon Death, whose purpose is to serve the Dark Lord, also justifying Death's apparent hatred for time travellers), so the Lords of Shadow are never even born, as they are the whole reason as to why Gabriel/Dracul even exists.

If this happened and the Dark Lord Carmilla never existed, then the Bernhardts would not be driven out of their castle by her, leading to Walter becoming the Dark Lord and kidnapping Rinaldo's daughter, sending him in his quest to defeat Walter (LoS make it clear that this same thing happened in it's timeline, around Gabriel's time). An older Gabriel would give birth to Mathias Cronqvist in time for him to become a Knight (Remember the dates. Lords of Shadow is 1047, and Lament of Innocence is 1096. The dates do match) and Rinaldo to be stranded in the forest for a long period, and then the rest would unfold as it did.

Let's not forget that, somewhere inside Berhardt Castle, there IS a time machine constructed by Frankenstein, that was mentioned since the very beginning. If they decided to use it, they'd not be pulling it out of their asses to make it work.

I'm starting to think too much here xD

All this, except change "time-traveler" to Solid Snake and add the words Time Paradox...

[crisis]

"design just doesn't fit the LoS universe"

That's the whole point. His design didn't fit 15th century Romania, either. That's what's ironic about him; he's out of place, outside of time. He would just be a tool for them to use IF they wanted something to bridge the two timelines, without using a time machine. Just another alternative from the other theories that were posted.

[Claimh Solais]

I agree with Crisis. Saint Germain being in the game would be a cool way to link them together. Time machines are silly.

[beingthehero]

To be honest I thought giant mechs would be out of place in this universe as well but look where we're at now

[darkwzrd4]

I don't think the timelines should be connected nor do I want them to be. Why do people insist that there be a connection between the two!!!?

Here's what I think should happen: After defeating Satan at the end of the game, Gabriel splits into two entities; himself as Dracula and himself as he was just before he fought Satan in LoS1. The human Gabriel would be the final boss. This is where I think two things can happen: 1) you win and the game ends with a cutscene followed by the credits, 2) there are 2 alternate endings; a. if you win the battle, the world is plunged into darkness with Gabriel (Dracula) ruling the world; b. if you lose, Gabriel (human) ascends to heaven where he can be with Marie forever.

[Flame]

I always found it weird how Gabriel is referred to as "Dracul" and not "Dracula". In real life, "Dracul" was the title of the father of Dracula.

because there was no father. It's a problem wothj classic Dracula when he became mathias. If he's the SON of the Dragon, who's the dragon?

Gabe meanwhile, says he IS the dragon. So he's Dracul. If anything, Trevor is technically Dracula.

[darkwzrd4]

because there was no father. It's a problem wothj classic Dracula when he became mathias. If he's the SON of the Dragon, who's the dragon?

Gabe meanwhile, says he IS the dragon. So he's Dracul. If anything, Trevor is technically Dracula.

Not everyone knows that Dracul means dragon and that Dracula means son of the dragon in Romanian. I just learned that a year or so ago. Perhaps IGA didn't know that when he came up with the Mathias thing. Or, he didn't care. After all, story always came second to gameplay for IGA. I remember he admitted it at least once.

As far as Mercurystream is concerned, who knows. Gabriel actually calls himself Dracul not Dracula, but every where else in the game refers to him as Dracula. I wonder why that is.

[theplottwist]

I don't think the timelines should be connected nor do I want them to be. Why do people insist that there be a connection between the two!!!?

You mean like, beyond all the references made in the games, with character names, item names, enemies, plotlines and what not?

To be completelly honest, as much as I'd have orgasms if the timelines turned out to be one and the same, I doubt it'll happen. People (like myself) insist on it because all the uproar caused by this reboot would turn out to be unfounded, and the whole thing would give us a completelly new perspective to the story, and maybe give it new life to continue the main plotline. Everyone wished that the canon Castlevania timeline received a breath of fresh air, instead they gave us a completelly different game (That IS good, IMO) with the name "Castlevania" slapped on the title, and a bunch of references that would make no difference if given another name (Rename "Veros Woods" to "Dead Forest" or rename Olrox and Brauner to "Vampire Lieutenant" and "Vampire General" and tell me what difference does it make?). We all know that LoS was developed and marketed to players of the new generation. Imagine if it turned out to be an awesome gambit to make the new audiences start seeking the classic games through a plot twist of sorts, while also opening way for new games to come following the old timeline, now with LoS details added to the mix?

That's be BEAST.

The thing is that we want the old Castlevania to be fixed on where it was not so good, and to evolve. Lords of Shadow brought this hope and quickly whisked it away from us. Deep inside, we all wished that LoS was canon, but it isn't, and we keep on wishing that something will make it canon.

[theplottwist]

because there was no father. It's a problem wothj classic Dracula when he became mathias. If he's the SON of the Dragon, who's the dragon?

Gabe meanwhile, says he IS the dragon. So he's Dracul. If anything, Trevor is technically Dracula.

What I meant in my hypothesis is that, Gabriel being "Dracul" is a sort of a curse calling for a Dark Lord to rise. Following the hypothesis, Mathias would be Gabriel's (now rid of said curse) son, and thus this curse of "need for a dark lord" would skip a generation. With Gabriel now free and out of question, who becomes the Dark Lord? Mathias. And he chooses to take the name of "Dracula"  unwittingly that his father was indeed "Dracul", as if fate itself is trying to set things in place. Gabriel, of course, would not be evil here, but the symbolism would exist. Gabriel was the first cursed, so he's "Dracul". With his fate averted by the time-travel-thingie and having his curse now removed, the whole tragic story would catch on with his hypothetic son, as if fate is trying to weave the same story again, and ultimatelly turn him into "Dracula".

[crisis]

I think it could just be chalked up to Mathias idolizing dragons for their furosity and power. After he became vampire, he started to worship evil, and the dragon is the iconic image of evil. So he's "son of the dragon." Lets not forget that he didn't just change it to Dracula, he changed it to "Vlad Tepes Dracula," not even Gabriel was creative enough to use the full name lol


It's also weird how DraculaDracul renames Trevor "ALUCARD" instead of calling him Dracula. From a storyline-perspective, that doesn't really make any sense if you think about it.

[theplottwist]

"design just doesn't fit the LoS universe"

That's the whole point. His design didn't fit 15th century Romania, either. That's what's ironic about him; he's out of place, outside of time. He would just be a tool for them to use IF they wanted something to bridge the two timelines, without using a time machine. Just another alternative from the other theories that were posted.

Also, following your St. Germain idea... What if the Time Travelling device turned out to be the "Stop Watch" subweapon, designed by Frankestein? Isn't it funny that the Stop Watch did not appear in the LoS saga? Also, Frankenstein was heavily associated with the Bernhardt Castle's Clock Tower. What if the time travelling device is NOT an humongous machine, but a simple Stop Watch?

[Ahasverus]

A Isn't it funny that the Stop Watch did not appear in the LoS saga?

It does. It's part of the new batch of information.

I for one don't like the mixing of series, because it undermines the LoS one (it was all for nothing).

[EstebanT]

It does. It's part of the new batch of information.

So if that one counts,

(click to show/hide)

why doesn't Alucards?

[theplottwist]

It does. It's part of the new batch of information.

I for one don't like the mixing of series, because it undermines the LoS one (it was all for nothing).

About the Stopwatch, I was mostly speaking about it's non-appearance on previous games. I'm unaware if it'll appear or not.

Well following this logic, every Castlevania game undermines the previous one then, because every Belmont's struggle was for nothing. Alucard's exploits on SotN was for nothing. John and Eric, nothing. Simon? Nothing. Trevor and Trio? Nothing. Even on LoS itself. Gabriel's whole ordeal was for nothing. Literally. Then Trevucard and Simon, also nothing. Trevucard will even get this new game as a chance, but still...

See? It's not about being "all for nothing". It is NOT nothing. The whole thing had to happen so the other thing can happen. If the first thing never happened, then we do not get the next thing. One thing is the product of the other.

Suppose Gabriel follows this path and time-travel and yadda yadda... What is that Gabriel seeks? To be relieved of his immortal life. Would not it be a beautiful closure to his cycle of suffering? To be reborn and live a joyful life, instead of losing everything he had?

Also, people. Nudge me if I'm derailing the topic... It's not my intention to break any rules...