Topic: "The Dragon Returns" - Castlevania Lords of Shadow Sequel (HERE BE SPOILER INFO)

[Agreus]

Kamirine:

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Alucard is the reason why it fits. He acts similar to the classic character. They are the same.

[DarkPrinceAlucard]

I can't see how this game story wise could be part of the original canon without messing it up to hell and back.  Alucard alone ruins it, we won't even go into older characters, their relationships, and how vastly different they're done here.  So I agree, I would strangle someone at Konami if they tried.

The game is it's own reboot and gets to do vastly different things: it's better that way.  Steps on no one's toes who are fans of the older universe while Cox and his team gets to delight us with their intriguing retelling.  It doesn't need to be part if the older universe.

But on a different note:  am I the only one alarmed that all good reviews so far are only European?  Man, I really hope it scores well all around.  It really looks like a great game.

agreed.

The notion that " if it was a part of the original canon no one would bat a eye" thing is completely false here.

Lets not forget that the LOS series changed A LOT from what was established in the original canon.

The Alucard/Trevor thing being the most glaring as well as Dracula being a belmont before becoming Dracula.

In Lords of Shadow 2 its set in modern times which I would assume in 2013/2014?

If so fans would obviously bat a eye at that since AOS established a end to Dracula (physically) in 1999 and here we are playing as him in the year 2000.

Its obvious it would not work in the original canon and even trying to fit it in would cause many people to become angry at the glaring inconsistencies it would produce with the original canon, even more so that IGA's apparent inconsistencies I would say.

[Agreus]

My affirmation has its limits, of course they should change lots of story things for the old cannon (duh) but the tone and overallplot is not an Anti-Castlevania. That's what I meant, this game is not a LoS 1 case of "why is this happening? castlevania was never like this" this game plays well and reasonably into the series. The whole series, both old and new, it may not share the story but it shares the spirit.

[uzo]

I dunno about you but I don't want Gundams in my Castlevania. It's disqualified as far as I'm concerned.

[Agreus]

I dunno about you but I don't want Gundams in my Castlevania. It's disqualified as far as I'm concerned.

There are no Gundams. Your prejuidces are weird, the series has had almost every enemy in the world incluiding Motorcycle skeletons. Humans in military armir suits with machineguns are no diffwrent than armored knights with swords, it's the same type of enemy in diferent times. And your Castlevania will probably not come back. It would be weird a return to the classic formula when this game finally nailed it. I expect (and want) morr 2D games of course, but the old universe will feel boring, but that's my opinion.

[Ahasverus]

Bitching about enemy types in Castlevania is kind of stupid, we've had like, thousands of types? From all influences and time periods and all that. That's the best part of the series, even, the variety.

[Dominus]

I like the main universe and the LoS universe for what they are, so I'd rather have them be...separate

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I would like that spoiler PM too btw

[crisis]

@Agreus

are there nonsensical references to other games and outdated meme jokes like there was in the first los?

[Agreus]

@Crysis

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The Master librarian is mentioned in various scrolls. It wasn't out of place or anything. Alucard's sword is called the Crissaegrim. That was the only thing I got but I'll dedicate myself today to explore and catch easter eggs. And no, the only meme I recall is "Thou shall not past" present in the demo.

[jormungand]

LOL I was like WTF when one monster shoot me with something that I thought was a shotgun, but then I remembered the Bone Musket from SOTN 

Seriously, if someone rants about the enemies in this game, it only shows their complete ignorance in the series's bestiary.

[uzo]

There are no Gundams.

They're mechs. Mechs need to stay out of Castlevania. Aria of Sorrow was in the present/future and handled it very well. It kept all the potentially crazy shit out of the spotlight and focused on what Castlevania is about.

Even if they were to venture into a modern human city, my god, what the hell is with mechs and science labs, and all this other shit. This is not Metal Gear, as much as MS may pretend it to be.

Sure, you can have a Belmont ripping through a modern city filled with the undead. Thats fine, even sounds cool. Don't be getting Mobile Police Patlabor, or some evil Einstein's super laser lab, coming into the scene though.

Your prejuidces are weird, the series has had almost every enemy in the world incluiding Motorcycle skeletons.

Motorcycle Skeletons were stupid, especially for the time period. Castlevania 64 was pretty bad in general in my opinion.

Humans in military armir suits with machineguns are no diffwrent than armored knights with swords, it's the same type of enemy in diferent times.

That's fine. Aria did it. Didn't say anything about soldiers, just mechs.

And your Castlevania will probably not come back. It would be weird a return to the classic formula when this game finally nailed it. I expect (and want) morr 2D games of course, but the old universe will feel boring, but that's my opinion.

Wishful thinking on your part. It's only as 'boring' as the team making it, and the budget they get.

Also, I don't consider LoS "nailing it". It's a side step at best. It's basically just it's own separate series with a few artificially implanted references here and there. The first game started off as a weird one shot experiment, and it's been off the rails ever since. Getting worse, not better.


tl;dr

Keep the mechs in Metal Gear where they belong. You're Castlevania. Act like it.

[jormungand]

Keep the mechs in Metal Gear where they belong. You're Castlevania. Act like it.

Poor Thin Man, Poor automatons, Poor robots that appeared in Kid Dracula series. Poor Mecha Knights and the Gear Steamer from Castlevania Bloodlines....

Bleh, kids these days.

[Maedhros]

I just want this shit to end already.

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@jormungand

Where they focused that much though? There were only a few of these enemies types on Castlevania. We can even call them a joke, if anything. In LoS, they are to be taken seriously.

[Agreus]

So, everyone, I think I'm out. Well, perhaps I'll stay around all this day but my time is coming to an end. It's my time for the final words.

Castlevania Lords of Shadow2 is quite an achievement. There are so many, so many things and could have go wrong and they didn't. It's finally the 3D castlevania game we always wanted, big, epic, with lots of exploration and platfforming, gorgeus (for the most part) setting and of course amazing combat. It's really nice to finally play as Dracula, you can't imagine the grin on my face the first time I did a "Hellfire" for example. The game treats both Castlevania series with uttermost respect, but is not afraid to make things feel new. That's what I want for the future. I don't want to go back to old predictable stories and settings, I want Castlevania to keep this path of boldness, it feels amazing, you feel as part of something you can't comprehend. I missed that feeling in gaming for many years (since the Legacy of Kain series) and I don't want it to go away.

So, as a summary, my (non so spoilery but kinda) pros and cons list.

Pros

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- Metroidvania. I can't stress how well done this is. The first big cohesive and fun 3D Castlevania metroidvania ever made. Finally the basic formula was nailed, this is the new SOTN in the way that future games of the series will emulate it.
- Combat. The skill trees are very long, I didn't unlock everything and I finished the game, the three weapons add variety and strategy to the game. Animations are fluid and the action is frenetic.
- Technical Aspect. The game features a dynamic resolution solution that feels weird in the demo part (pixelated enemies) but for some reason it never repeats itself latter in the game. This game is a technical marvel, almost no loading times, seamless connections, variety of textures, the most detailed enviroments you have seen this generation of consoles. There were compromises that you can feel but they are nothing compared to what is going on. Oh, and I had ZERO, and I repeat, ZERO framerate drops. I was expecting them but I didn't have them! on 360! What sorcery is this?
- The Castle. Pure porn. Lustfully designed, gothic, big, caves, forests, water streams, everything in between, Icy tops at daylight, stormy electric towers, statues and paintings everywhere. The throne room staircase is simply breathtaking. Mercury nailed the grandiosity and chaos of Dracula's Castle. Sadly, even if the game featured it prominently, I just want to see more.
- Attention to lore, travel book. MercurySteam are the best in this regard. every little item you get has a travel book page with illustrations and story. Every. Single. One. You get to know how Dracula's whip works, what's the deal with the subweapons, everything. Also every character in the game, enemy and friend has another page lustfully illustrated. Attention to detail is amazing, they didn't let a hole left filling.
- The bossfights. Not much to add here, just good. They always have you at your toes.
- The Last bossfight. The best of the western contributions to the genre this generation.
- Not trying to put the story in an historical context. The game's city knows where it came from, everyone knows Dracula existed and knows about what happened. I was afraid they were going for the "but the church hid everything from the world" IGA trope. Thank god they didn't.
- The atmospheric/calm parts. They are not many, but they are memorable, which lead me to..
- The Toy Maker Chapter. Probably the highest point in the game, the most inventive puzzle I've seen in a while, beautiful set up and resolution.
- Characterization. Each character behaves the way it should be.
- Significance. You will end the game thinking about yourself and your relationship with the series. It's an end as it is a celebration of everything Castlevania.
- Score. It was in my opinion not as good as the first one, but for some reason it's more memorable. Highlights: The rat form theme, the toymaker's theme, the Death theme.

Cons

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- FUCKING AGREUS. By far and far far far the worst part of the game, one that will certainly make people quit it. The mist form is not as useful as it lasts about three seconds, it's more about luck, I think the game was scripted to make it easy if you follow its whole path with the boxes, that worked for me, once I stopped taking "shortcuts" Agreus started to behave more stupid and I could do it. It seems there is no AI running, it's scripted. The bossfight was also not stellar.
- 2 of 4 stealth sections. The second and the last one. A good rule of thumb is, you have to use everything (mist, bats, possession) it's just a matter of guessing when. The second one is hard because you are stuck on a ledge and if yuo fall down you risk yourself to be spoted as the AI of those Golgoth guards is werid. They can't see you if you get behind them but a mere diagonal position spots you. The last one IS bullshit, because there are three guards, one is at a door that requires mist to cross, and two are guarding the hallway, you use bats in those 2, then pass them without using mist while they ar ebeing distracted but being careful of not touching the last guard's light AND then become to mist and cross in less than 3 seconds the remaining stairs and cross the door. I'm going to be honest, that one was pure luck. I don't know how I did it. That said, stealth sections are not really that, they are puzzles, that's why they only have one way to pass them.
- The explanation of those stealth sections. Yes, I get the golgoth guards have a weapon that fires hell into its prey, but it's Dracula he should be able to fight back.
- Some modern locations. The city itself is great and fits perfectly, but the Acolyte's headquarters are generic modern buildings and labs, it's all grey, dark blue and the occasional red. They are boring. Pipe halls are as boring as always.
- Dead City. I know the city is under attack, and people are hiding, but I think more context was needed, we don't meet their inhabitants or know about them. Missed opportunity there.
- Kinda lame scrolls. The first game's scrolls expanded the lore greatly, this game's scrolls tell almost all the same story of the Castle siege from different points of view.
- Lacking ending ending. The last chaper is great, th buildup is great, and what happens is arguably great too, but at the last minute the game cuts suddenly with motives left hanging, the biggest motives. It might be open ended, a la Legacy of Kain Defiance, but after that biblycal adventure we're owed one answer or two.
- It ends.

Phew, that was a long one. Hope I helped you. Castlevania fans, you get your well deserved reward for all your fidelity. This game will be remembered fondly by history and is well deserving of all the praise it can get. It has flaws that can be corrected and, why not, perhaps a good DLC will put the icing on the cake Bravo Mercury, Bravo and thank you! You changed my low expectations with awe and admiration!

[DarkPrinceAlucard]

@Agreus, I see that you keep calling this a metroidvania, but from what I heard the game is not all the open world.\

In fact, Cox and MS have made it a note to distance this from a metroidvania in interviews if I recall correctly.

Like take for instance Curse of Darkness, that game is a 3.D metroidvania where you can go anywhere and backtrack at anytime in a vast world, is Lords of Shadow 2 similar to that level of exploration?