Topic: "The Dragon Returns" - Castlevania Lords of Shadow Sequel (HERE BE SPOILER INFO)

[Nagumo]

Thanks for sharing lots of information about the game, Agreus. Take care.

Regarding the enemies, due to how serious LoS takes it self, most of the things it tries to pull off ends up trumping the ninja maids in silliness. 

 

[Agreus]

@Agreus, I see that you keep calling this a metroidvania, but from what I heard the game is not all the open world.\

In fact, Cox and MS have made it a note to distance this from a metroidvania in interviews if I recall correctly.

Like take for instance Curse of Darkness, that game is a 3.D metroidvania where you can go anywhere and backtrack at anytime in a vast world, is Lords of Shadow 2 similar to that level of exploration?

it is a metroidvania. Pure and simply. Believe me. Take my word from it. If Darksiders is a Metroidvania, if Arkham Asylum is a metroidvania, this is one too. Yes, you can backtrack everywhere and anytime.

As my psot got stuck on last post of last page lol I will dare to post it here again, as I would like people to read it, I'm sure it will reach mor epeople than my magazine's review! Sorry if it's against the rules.



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So, everyone, I think I'm out. Well, perhaps I'll stay around all this day but my time is coming to an end. It's my time for the final words.

Castlevania Lords of Shadow2 is quite an achievement. There are so many, so many things and could have go wrong and they didn't. It's finally the 3D castlevania game we always wanted, big, epic, with lots of exploration and platfforming, gorgeus (for the most part) setting and of course amazing combat. It's really nice to finally play as Dracula, you can't imagine the grin on my face the first time I did a "Hellfire" for example. The game treats both Castlevania series with uttermost respect, but is not afraid to make things feel new. That's what I want for the future. I don't want to go back to old predictable stories and settings, I want Castlevania to keep this path of boldness, it feels amazing, you feel as part of something you can't comprehend. I missed that feeling in gaming for many years (since the Legacy of Kain series) and I don't want it to go away.

So, as a summary, my (non so spoilery but kinda) pros and cons list.

Pros

(click to show/hide)

- Metroidvania. I can't stress how well done this is. The first big cohesive and fun 3D Castlevania metroidvania ever made. Finally the basic formula was nailed, this is the new SOTN in the way that future games of the series will emulate it.
- Combat. The skill trees are very long, I didn't unlock everything and I finished the game, the three weapons add variety and strategy to the game. Animations are fluid and the action is frenetic.
- Technical Aspect. The game features a dynamic resolution solution that feels weird in the demo part (pixelated enemies) but for some reason it never repeats itself latter in the game. This game is a technical marvel, almost no loading times, seamless connections, variety of textures, the most detailed enviroments you have seen this generation of consoles. There were compromises that you can feel but they are nothing compared to what is going on. Oh, and I had ZERO, and I repeat, ZERO framerate drops. I was expecting them but I didn't have them! on 360! What sorcery is this?
- The Castle. Pure porn. Lustfully designed, gothic, big, caves, forests, water streams, everything in between, Icy tops at daylight, stormy electric towers, statues and paintings everywhere. The throne room staircase is simply breathtaking. Mercury nailed the grandiosity and chaos of Dracula's Castle. Sadly, even if the game featured it prominently, I just want to see more.
- Attention to lore, travel book. MercurySteam are the best in this regard. every little item you get has a travel book page with illustrations and story. Every. Single. One. You get to know how Dracula's whip works, what's the deal with the subweapons, everything. Also every character in the game, enemy and friend has another page lustfully illustrated. Attention to detail is amazing, they didn't let a hole left filling.
- The bossfights. Not much to add here, just good. They always have you at your toes.
- The Last bossfight. The best of the western contributions to the genre this generation.
- Not trying to put the story in an historical context. The game's city knows where it came from, everyone knows Dracula existed and knows about what happened. I was afraid they were going for the "but the church hid everything from the world" IGA trope. Thank god they didn't.
- The atmospheric/calm parts. They are not many, but they are memorable, which lead me to..
- The Toy Maker Chapter. Probably the highest point in the game, the most inventive puzzle I've seen in a while, beautiful set up and resolution.
- Characterization. Each character behaves the way it should be.
- Significance. You will end the game thinking about yourself and your relationship with the series. It's an end as it is a celebration of everything Castlevania.
- Score. It was in my opinion not as good as the first one, but for some reason it's more memorable. Highlights: The rat form theme, the toymaker's theme, the Death theme.

Cons

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- FUCKING AGREUS. By far and far far far the worst part of the game, one that will certainly make people quit it. The mist form is not as useful as it lasts about three seconds, it's more about luck, I think the game was scripted to make it easy if you follow its whole path with the boxes, that worked for me, once I stopped taking "shortcuts" Agreus started to behave more stupid and I could do it. It seems there is no AI running, it's scripted. The bossfight was also not stellar.
- 2 of 4 stealth sections. The second and the last one. A good rule of thumb is, you have to use everything (mist, bats, possession) it's just a matter of guessing when. The second one is hard because you are stuck on a ledge and if yuo fall down you risk yourself to be spoted as the AI of those Golgoth guards is werid. They can't see you if you get behind them but a mere diagonal position spots you. The last one IS bullshit, because there are three guards, one is at a door that requires mist to cross, and two are guarding the hallway, you use bats in those 2, then pass them without using mist while they ar ebeing distracted but being careful of not touching the last guard's light AND then become to mist and cross in less than 3 seconds the remaining stairs and cross the door. I'm going to be honest, that one was pure luck. I don't know how I did it. That said, stealth sections are not really that, they are puzzles, that's why they only have one way to pass them.
- The explanation of those stealth sections. Yes, I get the golgoth guards have a weapon that fires hell into its prey, but it's Dracula he should be able to fight back.
- Some modern locations. The city itself is great and fits perfectly, but the Acolyte's headquarters are generic modern buildings and labs, it's all grey, dark blue and the occasional red. They are boring. Pipe halls are as boring as always.
- Dead City. I know the city is under attack, and people are hiding, but I think more context was needed, we don't meet their inhabitants or know about them. Missed opportunity there.
- Kinda lame scrolls. The first game's scrolls expanded the lore greatly, this game's scrolls tell almost all the same story of the Castle siege from different points of view.
- Lacking ending ending. The last chaper is great, th buildup is great, and what happens is arguably great too, but at the last minute the game cuts suddenly with motives left hanging, the biggest motives. It might be open ended, a la Legacy of Kain Defiance, but after that biblycal adventure we're owed one answer or two.
- It ends.

Phew, that was a long one. Hope I helped you. Castlevania fans, you get your well deserved reward for all your fidelity. This game will be remembered fondly by history and is well deserving of all the praise it can get. It has flaws that can be corrected and, why not, perhaps a good DLC will put the icing on the cake Bravo Mercury, Bravo and thank you! You changed my low expectations with awe and admiration!

Take care anyone! Any questions today will be answered gladly!

[DarkPrinceAlucard]

it is a metroidvania. Pure and simply. Believe me. Take my word from it. If Darksiders is a Metroidvania, if Arkham Asylum is a metroidvania, this is one too. Yes, you can backtrack everywhere and anytime.

But Cox has gone on the record of saying while it does carry elements from a metroidvania that it really was not intended to be one in the first place.

http://www.vg247.com/2014/01/30/castlevania-lords-of-shadow-2-progression-similar-to-metroidvania-titles/

"Cox stressed that Lords of Shadow’s 2 environment wasn’t consciously fashioned to feel like previous ‘Metroidvania’ titles and added, “Yeah, I mean it wasn’t a conscious decision to do that. People say to us ‘is this a Metroidvania style game,’ and I suppose in hindsight looking at it now, there are elements of that.

“But I wouldn’t say we’ve tried to model it on something like Symphony of Night, because it’s very different. Certainly there’s more scope for exploration and more scope for backtracking than there was in the original game, so it is closer to the classic games in that respect.”"

[Maedhros]

Metroidvania needs:

- A map that unlocks progressively as you explore (unless you find a map)
- Secrets areas that don't show easily on the map
- You can't advance there unless you get key/skill X/Y/Z
- It can have or not sequence breaker (as in not being linear, but still having importance to the gameplay, like in Super Metroid/SOTN where you could go to the underground first or explore the towers, etc).

[Flame]

They're mechs. Mechs need to stay out of Castlevania. Aria of Sorrow was in the present/future and handled it very well. It kept all the potentially crazy shit out of the spotlight and focused on what Castlevania is about.

Aria also did nothing to take advantage of it's modern setting outside of a zombie type and like 3 weapons.

[Agreus]

Metroidvania needs:

- A map that unlocks progressively as you explore (unless you find a map)
- Secrets areas that don't show easily on the map
- You can't advance there unless you get key/skill X/Y/Z
- It can have or not sequence breaker (as in not being linear, but still having importance to the gameplay, like in Super Metroid/SOTN where you could go to the underground first or explore the towers, etc).

All of them yes. Sorry Cox, your game is a metroidvania.

[DarkPrinceAlucard]

Aria also did nothing to take advantage of it's modern setting outside of a zombie type and like 3 weapons.

To be fair it was set in a old castle and the only reason why it had some modern elements in it was because thanks to the 1999 demon castle wars soldiers and other modern people had been there.

I'm sure if it was actually set in the city it would have also had just as much modern shit as Lords of Shadow 2 considering it is set even further in the future.

[Maedhros]

Aria also did nothing to take advantage of it's modern setting outside of a zombie type and like 3 weapons.

I think that was his point. It kept the Castlevania element there without going too crazy with the sillyness.

[DarkPrinceAlucard]

All of them yes. Sorry Cox, your game is a metroidvania.

Well Cox and MS disagrees lol, but I will find out for myself once I get my hands on it.

[Agreus]

Well Cox and MS disagrees lol, but I will find out for myself once I get my hands on it.

Which is weird, there's nothing to be ashamed of, that's awesome.

[Maedhros]

All of them yes. Sorry Cox, your game is a metroidvania.

At what point does the game stops holding the hand?
When do you/can you start exploring for real?

[Nagumo]

While I was watching walkthrough videos, I was thinking how this game took Aria's subtle method of bringing Castlevania to the future, beat it over the head, set it on fire, drove over it two times, and dumped its corpse in an abyss.   

[Belmontoya]

AOS and DOS said they took place in the future, and that was about it. I don't know if "subtle" is the right word to use, or "uninspired". In my opinion, those games took an opportunity to take Castlevania into new visual territory, and threw it away.

[beingthehero]

I agree with Jeffrey in that the sorrow games utilized the modern setting too little (though DoS was more upfront about it with the prologue and first stage), but I think Lords 2 has gone to the other extreme without hitting that sweet middle spot.

[Agreus]

At what point does the game stops holding the hand?
When do you/can you start exploring for real?

After the first Acolyte. You still have freedom when you first enter the castle though, but your habilities are kidna limited then.