Topic: "The Dragon Returns" - Castlevania Lords of Shadow Sequel (HERE BE SPOILER INFO)

[Viskod]

People really trying to defend golgoth guards, REALLY??

Yes, because it's surprisingly easy to do in the context if the game. Especially when the argument against them is always just "I don't like stealth" which is a perfectly valid opinion that exists separately from the context of this games stealth segments.

I'm not saying they are the best examples of stealth mechanically, but they do work.

[Maedhros]

Yes, because it's surprisingly easy to do in the context if the game. Especially when the argument against them is always just "I don't like stealth" which is a perfectly valid opinion that exists separately from the context of this games stealth segments.

I'm not saying they are the best examples of stealth mechanically, but they do work.

They don't work on the context that they aren't fun, something that games should always strive for. They "work", but they aren't really good.

I could say the opposite: people are trying to give arguments to validate why the Golgoth Guards are overpowered in this game. While they are valid arguments/defenses, doesn't mean they are good explanations, at all. Specially while they are tied with such bad and unnecessary mechanic on this game. If it was ONLY for ONE time, I would be more understandable, as Dracula WAS really weak.

[Chernabogue]

I think Golgoth Guards were used to show Dracula was still weak at the beginning. When he becomes more powerful, Dracula still needs the "element of surprise", so he cannot rush through the buildings to reach the Acolytes. My 2 cts on the matter.

[Intersection]

Four chapters later, and my expectations for the game have plummeted. Here are a few more impressions. (Keep in mind that what I'd first enjoyed in LoS2 still stands; this is just to point out a few glaring faults).

- I'd said that the game was "genuinely nonlinear", but it's probably not the right term. LoS2's world is based on a nonlinear structure, and there can be some worthwhile backtracking to be done, but for the most part it's simply a series of rigidly linear paths that are connected by larger areas that serve as destinations. The map actually makes this pretty clear. There are definitely a few interspersed locations that you can explore, but when you've set on a linear path you're expected to follow it.

- Traversal segments through LoS2's city areas are more dull, disoriented, and just plain ugly than anything I've yet seen from MS. Especially once you've gotten used to the towering spires and breathtaking vistas you'd witnessed only a few chapters before, the uniformly grey, dark, and bare rooms of those dilapidated modern buildings you're forced to explore start to look like the ugliest environments you've ever laid your eyes on. Nearly every single room looks the same, with only one variation or another of the same damp walls, half-destroyed modern furniture, and utterly colorless surroundings. To make things worse, there's often very little logic to the paths you'll be forced to take; there were times when the level design became so incoherent that I lost sight of where I was going, or how I was supposed to be getting there. It wasn't rare for me to find myself platforming through random trial-and-error. After all, why on earth is Dracula forced to scuttle through a bookstore and restore power to a mental asylum if he only needs to reach the exterior of a corporate HQ (to which Zobek had already teleported Dracula in the first place)?
Even the Bioquimek segments, which are comparatively an improvement, don't offer much more past the miles upon miles of the same sealed rooms and metal platforms, electrical wires and pipelines, and crates and barrels of toxic waste. You're also supposed to be exploring a large, modern city, but there isn't a human being in sight, unless you count the mutilated bodies you'll find lying on the ground. I know that there's a plot point to take care of this, but this doesn't explain why every single area you explore is completely empty, save for the occasional mutant pack you'll encounter here and there.
There's also relatively little enemy variety in "Castlevania City"; the only monsters you'll consistently encounter are mutants -- mutants eating corpses, mutants with claws, mutants with sticks, mutants with sledgehammers, mutants with shotguns, big mutants with horns, all of which look like they're pasted straight from Resident Evil (which they probably are). Only the occasional dishonored vampire or riot police spice up the combat. Still, I'd like to understand just what kind of an idiot chose to paste flying, gun-toting mech armors into a gothic-styled Castlevania game centered on Dracula, taking place in modern (and not future) day. To the game's credit, though, mechs are still fun to defeat.

- I mentioned in my last post that stealth was terrible. I take that back. Stealth is absolutely atrocious. It's not even just linear -- it's "do exactly this or die" linear. And when you're not sure what exactly you're supposed to do, since the game rarely makes that clear, then you're completely screwed. Even the slightest glimmers of player ingenuity are punished as if they were fatal mistakes -- so what is there left to enjoy?
Incidentally, could someone explain why getting accidentally hit by a bat-swarmed guard's rocket launcher does as much damage as getting hit by the fired rocket itself?

- "Next Stop: Castlevania." Do I even need to mention how poorly-made this section is? I mean, if there absolutely needed to be a generic moving train sequence, it could at least have been done correctly. But no -- stick an obtrusive cutscene every ten seconds of gameplay, and you've clearly got a winner. Not that the gameplay is particularly interesting in the first place. Combat? There's combat, all right, interrupted as it invariably is thirty seconds after it starts. Stealth? Golgoth guards? You bet.  Stupid shimmying puzzles? How about "avoid the lights on the top of the train", and "avoid getting hit by the wall on the side"? That's called a recipe for success.

The game's plot is still a complete mess, and Marie's and Carmilla's appearances in the next chapter don't help in the least. But I'd given up on the narrative long ago. Besides, despite another stealth section (can't get enough of these, can we?), Drac's return to his castle marks the return of some solid combat and a good boss encounter. So I'm not one to complain here.

[Trevorcard]

I totally agree with all your points. I think the game is good but not the tight experience that Lords of Shadow 1 had. The weird thing is they took out fat that was in LOS1 but added more fat, so weird. Also train sequence had moments of Badass reduced by that stupid avoid the stupid lights on the train. Also I hate the fact that bug demon comes in all types in this game. IS HELL ONLY FILLED WITH GENERIC STUPID BUG DEMONS.

Also beauty of castle vistas really destroys the city stuff. They should have made this game 80% castle and 20% city and the game would been better for it.

[crisis]

ive been reading a lot of newfound praise for los1 lately

not even 2 years ago people were shitting on it left & right, and when i read stuff how los2 is seemingly worse than los1 that just baffles me

[Trevorcard]

The thing is Lords of Shadow 2 has really better combat but Lords of Shadow 1 had more interesting vista, better enemy variety. Lords of Shadow 1 was game that knew what it was, Lords of Shadow 2 is game that doesn't seem to know what it is. Is it a stealth game? A combat game? A exploration game? Bergaron said it best they tried to do too much. Lords of Shadow 2 is a good game but its mess. In short the sequel doesn't fulfill the potential of first one. Problems in development yeah you can see it in this game.

[crisis]

i recall people saying (on this forum & others) los1 is just a strange frankenstein-esque amalgam of several different games aesthetically & gameplay-wise, borrowing from everything else except the series it was supposed to be apart of, albeit much worse in execution, i.e. a "mess"

then people were shitting on los1's enemies too; the big-nosed trolls & goblins, the pig-orc vampires, chupacabras. most common word used to describe these enemies was "uninspired"


but it seems los1 is being looked back on as a "more-focused attempt at 3Dvania" which contradicts various opinions i've read since it was released up until now. its just funny to me how things can change so drastically over the course of a couple years

[Maedhros]

I think Golgoth Guards were used to show Dracula was still weak at the beginning. When he becomes more powerful, Dracula still needs the "element of surprise", so he cannot rush through the buildings to reach the Acolytes. My 2 cts on the matter.

So make it as that Dracula can fight and defeat them, (after he gets his Chaos Claws), if he gets exposed.

It just too weak strawman, this argument.

[Trevorcard]

i recall people saying (on this forum & others) los1 is just a strange frankenstein-esque amalgam of several different games aesthetically & gameplay-wise, borrowing from everything else except the series it was supposed to be apart of, albeit much worse in execution, i.e. a "mess"

then people were shitting on los1's enemies too; the big-nosed trolls & goblins, the pig-orc vampires, chupacabras. most common word used to describe these enemies was "uninspired"


but it seems los1 is being looked back on as a "more-focused attempt at 3Dvania" which contradicts various opinions i've read since it was released up until now. its just funny to me how things can change so drastically over the course of a couple years

I think that was because of the initial shock of people because Lords of Shadow is really different from previous castlevania. I think people have valid right to say they don't like the game because it was different from was before or the designs not to their linking. However, I am looking at Lords of Shadow 1 as its own thing and I think the game art design and look was pretty inspired and gameplay mechanics were good but just needed to be improved. It was first try after all. Unfortunately it seems mercury stream weren't able to improve on a pretty solid foundation besides the combat. I will say one thing about Mercury stream they really know how to do boss battles. At least they continued that tradition of Castlevania games.

[Dracul_Belmont]

(click to show/hide)

There's a scroll in the castle where it gives you the konami code. Nice

[Viskod]

They don't work on the context that they aren't fun, something that games should always strive for. They "work", but they aren't really good.

I could say the opposite: people are trying to give arguments to validate why the Golgoth Guards are overpowered in this game. While they are valid arguments/defenses, doesn't mean they are good explanations, at all. Specially while they are tied with such bad and unnecessary mechanic on this game. If it was ONLY for ONE time, I would be more understandable, as Dracula WAS really weak.

I do wish the game had given us opportunity to beat the tar out of one at a later point in the game. Catch one out and about somewhere, Dracula surprises him and knocks his gun away, guard looks in the Erie toon the gun flew then back to Dracula who us just cracking his knuckles.

[Shinobi]

Now currently playing the game, am I the only one that this game reminds me of Tenchu? I think that's the good thing in my own perspective that is. The rat thing isn't really a bad thing nor ineffective for me either.

[thernz]

but it seems los1 is being looked back on as a "more-focused attempt at 3Dvania" which contradicts various opinions i've read since it was released up until now. its just funny to me how things can change so drastically over the course of a couple years

well lords 2 is relatively worse in all those aspects, basically.
lords 2's thematic elements like stealth and modern city etc are also more distanced from older castlevania's themes i guess too?

dungeon's userbase has also changed since 3 years ago lol.

[KaZudra]

Get this, The Revelations DLC is real, and you play as Alucard!
http://www.justpushstart.com/2014/03/castlevania-lords-of-shadow-2-revelations-dlc-could-be-coming-soon/

maybe was can get a Victor DLC (Covers his part before death), and a True ending DLC (a Real Final fight with Satan)