Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: theplottwist on November 09, 2014, 05:50:05 AM
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Am I the only one that thinks that Dmitrii Blinov was a brilliant opportunity to bring Dracula back, completelly wasted?
I mean, bear with me:
Dmitrii is a prideful, arrogant guy. He sets up an incredible gamble just so he can truly become Dracula, and actually succeeds.
On that Doppelganger scene, I just think it was the perfect moment to set up Dracula's return.
I know Soma is Dracula, but Soma actually feels more like he's a separate entity from what Dracula is. Dmitrii fits the role to become the new vessel perfectly well! He could've "copied" Dracula's soul, or have been outright corrupted by it, with Dracula's soul acting as a parasite when he escaped Soma's body. Dmitrii even had Dracula's memories, dang it.
At the end of the game it would be incredible if he turned into Dracula himself after sacrificing Celia, and the outcome of the battle actually negated Soma's dominance forever, effectivelly bringing Dracula back.
Think about this: Aren't the Dark Lord Candidates born with shards of Dracula's power, because Dracula actually "expelled" his power upon his Death? This could've been his gambit to survive all along, just like Dmitrii did! He did it on purpose, so he could be reawakened when his true soul (Soma) came in contact with the candidates, and defeated them. Then Dmitrii would do the same thing and actually enter Soma's body, but be corrupted inside and come out carrying Dracula. So Dracula did a gamble that was having Dmitrii do a gamble in the future to assure his return.
But nothing like that happened... It was disappointing for me, really. I reaaaaaaally wanted something else to come after Dawn of Sorrow, and have Soma removed from the story, having Dracula himself return.
I, personally, think this was a terribly wasted opportunity. One can dream...
What do you dudes think?
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Indeed, he even copied all Dracula memories and that is the funniest part because if he had all this knowledge, he should know that he couldn't abuse of all his abilities until he became stronger. But what about Dario? He is stupid and all, but he is still alive. Even if they say that they sealed his powers, maybe its a lie and he can still use it like Soma does.
IMO they should ressurect Graham, he have a lot of followers already and can absorb souls like Soma does without imploding.
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It could have been interesting, with Dmitrii copying Dracula almost completely, but not actually being Dracula, which only Soma can actually be. The way I see it, Soma is a full reincarnation of Dracula's soul, rather than a resurrection of Dracula. What makes him not Dracula is that he's lived a new life from scratch, and been shaped into a different person of sorts. The only way that Dmitrii could have even a hope of doing this would be trying to steal Dracula's soul, but that would lead to a battle of wills, and Dracula would obviously win. Yes, he could overtake Dmitrii's body if removed fom his own, but wouldn't he just prefer to stay/return to his own? The process would likely kill his human body, forcing him to return to being a vampire, even though he's stated himself that he's happy living a human life again. Cue an angry and pissed off Dracula once again.
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I've always seen the Sorrow games as the perfect opportunity to move away from the Dracula plotline, so I disagree with people who say they should bring him back. You can only do repeat a plot formula so many times before it gets stale. Moving away from the status quo would be a good thing. Otherwise just do a reboot.
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An interesting concept, but...Dmitrii can't possibly become Dracula. Dracula has an actual sense of fashion.
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I loved the Sorrow games, and must admit that I was sad to not see the plot arc continued. I always felt that there was an opportunity to bring Walter and possibly Joachim back, as a result of the presumed destruction of the Crimson Stone. Walter wants revenge on Mathias for trapping his soul in the stone for nearly a millennia, and so could easily be behind all sorts of nefarious plots. He could even be behind sending a number of the cults after Soma and co, using the cover trying to persuade them to resurrect Dracula. After all, he wants both Mathias, and the Belmonts, to pay for what they did, and take everything away from them. He could even be wanting to push Soma back into becoming Dracula, knowing that he now wants to live as a human, or just that he wants his old power back, and so make him a vampire once more and then take his soul and power for himself, as Mathias did to him.
By doing this, there could be a lot of chances to take the series in fresh, new directions, whilst still keeping its roots firmly entrenched in all of its history.
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I feel the entirety of DoS was a wasted opportunity. Dmitrii could have become the next Dark Lord but he could never be Dracula as 'Dracula' is not a title but Soma's past-life and sir name.
I know Soma is Dracula, but Soma actually feels more like he's a separate entity from what Dracula is. Dmitrii fits the role to become the new vessel perfectly well! He could've "copied" Dracula's soul, or have been outright corrupted by it, with Dracula's soul acting as a parasite when he escaped Soma's body. Dmitrii even had Dracula's memories, dang it.
I see what you're trying to enplane here but in terms of copying the soul, that is impossible on all levels. Every soul is unique and does not conform to any laws that we know of or can theorize. The soul is non-liner, non-mechanistic and non-Newtonian, and therefore cannot be copied nor duplicated. While Dmitrii did copy Soma's ability to steal souls of monsters it eventually failed. And that is because Dmitrii is not Soma (Dracula). He does not have the inborn ability to steal the souls of monsters no-matter how much he tried to 'copy' Soma's ability. And through his own arrogance, he killed himself.
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Dmitrii
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.game-art-hq.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F07%2Fdemitri-maximoff-darkstalkers-fan-art-by-kukurobuki.jpg&hash=070992ce9e5f499013ad596599f3d7a8)
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DoS is a lost opportunity.
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IMO they should ressurect Graham, he have a lot of followers already and can absorb souls like Soma does without imploding.
I would've loved to see more from Graham Jones. He has the perfect preacher/cult leader name(Billy Graham mixed with Jim Jones) and looks the part(I always thought he'd speak with a sorta Southern accent). I always though, next to Soma(who is the actual reincarnation of Dracula), Graham was the second strongest "dark lord candidates" of them all. Would be cool if he resurrected, claiming himself to be a sort of "new messiah" anti-Christ figure in the world without Dracula. Would've also loved to know more about his cult.
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DoS is a lost opportunity.
Yeah. The Sorrow games were very promising.
There were a lot of things that could make DoS a great game but due to (1) IGA's love for gameplay first before story, and the (2) rapid development turnover schedule required by Konami, we can only sigh and think of the what ifs.
I always felt that there was an opportunity to bring Walter and possibly Joachim back, as a result of the presumed destruction of the Crimson Stone.
Oh yes, yes, bring them back.
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@Laylgax
Hehehe. Dark Stalker's Dmitrii. He'd still have his @$$ handed to him by the Belmont's if he was ever in a CV game.
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Dmitrii's persona is wasted on his fashion sense, it's just terrible.
Duplicate/ Mirror are the key words here. I just don't think what Soma (Dracula) is can be superseded by a copy. Inevitably, something will go awry in the process. Most notably his soul not being able to handle what Soma's can. This is interesting, as DOS is not actually based in Castlevania, so why are all these random monsters materialising in this duplicate castle.. Okay so maybe they're being summoned by the 3 antagonists, there is after all a physical connection with the underworld in the castle. But wouldn't Castlevania be the place for the monsters to revive with their dark lord, rather than some abandoned theme park of a replica castle? I dunno, who knows. Games don't have to make perfect logistical sense and I'm fine with that!
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Wait...wasn't it Castlevania that was sealed? It's been awhile, so I don't even really remember...
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Castlevanis was sealed inside the eclipse in AoS. In DoS the castle the game takes place in is an abandoned amusement park meant to cater to the old horror fiction the was prevalent throughout the 20th century. However the park wasn't successful and was shut down. Then the cult moved in and made it their base of operations. In short there is no castlevania in DoS, just a look-a-like.
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Castlevanis was sealed inside the eclipse in AoS. In DoS the castle the game takes place in is an abandoned amusement park meant to cater to the old horror fiction the was prevalent throughout the 20th century. However the park wasn't successful and was shut down. Then the cult moved in and made it their base of operations. In short there is no castlevania in DoS, just a look-a-like.
Uh wat??
Where did you get this info o.O ?
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I stumbled across a website that had some pretty detailed info that was not mentioned in DoS. Mind you this was several years ago so I doubt i could find the site again. Also I just checked out the CV Wiki and it explains that it was the cult themselves whom built the castle, so I'm not entirely sure what's what.
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The amusement park sounds like a better idea to me, other than some cult having the funding and ability to just rebuild Dracula's castle complete with eldritch architecture and all that jazz. I like it better as an amusement park that they opened a portal to hell inside of.
Also, Id prefer if the whole Dark lord thing DoS did was forgotten. That was really bad. For one, neither Dario nor Dimitri were likable at all. Dimiitri had a VERY interesting power, with his copy ability being essentially an inferior derrivative of Soma's power, but he was still pretty bad.
Also, the idea of a bunch of superhumans running around with powers because they were born when Dracula died, really cheapens the idea that when Dracula died, he didn't just explode into confetti that spread his powers around, he specifically wound up reincarnating as Soma.
it makes Soma's existence feel cheap.
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It's funny because I always assumed that it was a castle in the Netherlands.
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@X: yeah, I think I remembered reading that too. And it is the most likely scenario since I don't think Celia's cult is greater than Graham's.
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Also, the idea of a bunch of superhumans running around with powers because they were born when Dracula died, really cheapens the idea that when Dracula died, he didn't just explode into confetti that spread his powers around, he specifically wound up reincarnating as Soma.
X-D HA! Confetti! There's a favorite death sequence for another thread (http://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/index.php/topic,7629.0.html) out there! ;-)
I always thought that was kinda silly too...I mean I guess the idea of there being "superhumans" out there could make some sense, if you consider the idea that the Belmonts were said to be quite super. But being born on the day Drac died, therefore being a potential candidate to become Drac reincarnate seemed silly...like the "soul" of Dracula had a smorgasbord to choose from...a "one-you-can-eat" buffet of who to use to bring him back. I guess that could be the point of these cults, gather all the potentials and make Drac come back, but it still seemed silly to me.
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And it is the most likely scenario since I don't think Celia's cult is greater than Graham's.
I think what had happened is that after Graham's death was confirmed by the authorities Celia started her own movement based on Graham's, and those who formally followed him flocked to Celia's cause. Arikado does mention that Celia is the leader of a new and rapidly growing cult so in that retrospect Graham's church could have been absorbed into Celia's. Either that or she took over and made it her own.
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The idea of the castle in DoS being a former amusement park would be pretty silly, I think. Seems like something someone just made up unless it originates from Japanese only material, but I doubt it. You could also argue the cult didn't neccesarily built the castle themselves. I'm sure they are plenty of abandoned haunted castles in CV universe's version of Europe. Also, I'm not sure, but I recall Graham's cult reappearing in Kabuchi no Tsuisoukyoku, so Celia's cult is probably unrelated.
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The idea of the castle in DoS being a former amusement park would be pretty silly, I think. Seems like something someone just made up unless it originates from Japanese only material, but I doubt it. You could also argue the cult didn't neccesarily built the castle themselves. I'm sure they are plenty of abandoned haunted castles in CV universe's version of Europe. Also, I'm not sure, but I recall Graham's cult reappearing in Kabuchi no Tsuisoukyoku, so Celia's cult is probably unrelated.
IGA's Japanese, so... There are a lot of abandoned Japanese amusement parks in Japan. A fictional one was featured in Miyazaki's movie "Spirited Away". He must have been thinking that such abandoned ones do exist elsewhere in the world.
That's what I believe as well. Celia's cult is different from Graham's. But there might be some people who are members of both. Or we see another one of IGA's plot holes.
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I think Celia explained her cult built the castle to be the exact replica of Dracula's Castle.
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Do you know which segment in DoS that happened? I'd be interested in reading it :)
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I think Celia explained her cult built the castle to be the exact replica of Dracula's Castle.
Which was their first mistake, since the true Castlevania has no singular form. Creature of Chaos and all that jazz.
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Koji Igarashi says "ドラキュラ城を模した近代建築 (Modern architecture which imitated the Dracula's castle)".
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So the amusement park thing was just somebody's fan fiction.
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Do you know which segment in DoS that happened? I'd be interested in reading it :)
Don't remember the segment but I found this from the Wiki (I think it's from Celia's official background in the manual): "(...) Celia arranges for the construction of a massive replica of Castlevania (...) and populates it with summoned Castlevanian demons, and then she proceeds to lure Soma into it, intending to see him die.'
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Well, at least it isn't an amusement park. But the idea of the castle being a modern construction seems kind off silly to me. I wonder which construction company they hired and if any awkward questions were raised.
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The cult would have had to do things from a shady sort of angle in order to build a replica of castlevania without drawing any kind of attention to themselves. Hiring construction companies that are next to criminal, money laundering as I doubt they'd have the funds for such a project, dummy corporate fronts and the like. All of this would have to be strictly an 'underground' sort of thing lest Arikado's organization finds out about the project before it could even begin. Heck, even making deals with the Mafia would net Celia some quick cash considering she has powers that they don't.
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The cult would have had to do things from a shady sort of angle in order to build a replica of castlevania without drawing any kind of attention to themselves. Hiring construction companies that are next to criminal, money laundering as I doubt they'd have the funds for such a project, dummy corporate fronts and the like. All of this would have to be strictly an 'underground' sort of thing lest Arikado's organization finds out about the project before it could even begin. Heck, even making deals with the Mafia would net Celia some quick cash considering she has powers that they don't.
Or simply summon demons to do the work. With all those monsters, a few ones could help xD
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@X/Nagumo The first stage is called Lost City, so it isn't too far of a stretch to imagine the cult chose an area with existing landscape/ architecture which was still fairly remote and built on top of this. Since there is a whole abandoned city fronting Castle, it's still feasible that it could be built, going relatively unnoticed.
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inb4 it all took place on Battleship Island
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Maybe Celia summoned these demon bricks from Haunted Castle one by one to construct all of this :P
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I personally though DoS's castle Walter's Castle(LoI), just renovated over the centuries and modernized by the cult. All the areas of Walter's Castle are accounted for(Garden, Waterfall, Theater-like area, Chapel, Alchemy Lab, Keep), as well as the Prison of Eternal Torture, which I can see the Condemned Tower and Mines of Judgement being built on. Other newer areas were built centuries later. I mean, if you take it that LoI happened in 1094 and we never return to it. Within that time(between LoI and DoS), a LOT of things could've happened, different nobles could've reconstructed the castle, towns were built around it, and it's dark history summoned those with evil intention. It lacks the great power of Dracula's Castle, but I could still see it being a sacred "unholy place" to Dracula sympathists(it basically was where Mathias became Dracula, after all). Symbolism and all, especially for Dark Lord candidates.
That's just me, though.
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But this castle was on Japan isnt it? Walter's castle was on Europe.
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But this castle was on Japan isnt it? Walter's castle was on Europe.
Was it? I don't recall them saying it was specifically anywhere. And while the intro takes place in Japan, the arrival of Soma and crew in the snowbound area could've been somewhere different altogether. Besides, other than Soma, Mina and Yoko, nobody else is Japanese, nor the cultists. Celia, Dmitri and Dario seemed very European.
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But this castle was on Japan isnt it? Walter's castle was on Europe.
Nope. I believe it was somewhere in Europe.
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It's not precised that Celia's castle is in Europe, but I think she would try to build a replica of the castle at the location of Dracula's original castle, or even of its ruins (since it's now in the eclipse). Plus, Soma & co. travels "a few days" to get there.
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And the geography of the place, as seen in the Lost Village, is very European. Soma and crew carpooled.
Now, that is indeed an interesting theory, DragonSlayr. Since I don't myself believe that the Bernhard castle is Castlevania, that's a concept I can really get behind.
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And the geography of the place, as seen in the Lost Village, is very European. Soma and crew carpooled.
Now, that is indeed an interesting theory, DragonSlayr. Since I don't myself believe that the Bernhard castle is Castlevania, that's a concept I can really get behind.
I thought this up after hearing the castle wasn't Castle Dracula(Castlevania), and kinda picked up on how some of the areas were pretty much similar to the ones in LoI(particularly the "garden" area, which not many CVs feature an enclosed garden area). I saw DoS's castle as an evolution of Walters(my theory) and always felt, if there were cults dedicated to Lord Dracula, a place such as Walter's Castle would be considered sacred for the fact it was literally the place "Dracula" was born.
That and how sometimes, you see on the second screen a image that is most DEFINITELY that of Walter's Castle(the render from LoI).
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mobygames.com%2Fimages%2Fshots%2Fl%2F301258-castlevania-dawn-of-sorrow-nintendo-ds-screenshot-title-screens.png&hash=3f8c43915314c0b3969278a8aeb4848d)
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mobygames.com%2Fimages%2Fshots%2Fl%2F264200-castlevania-lament-of-innocence-playstation-2-screenshot-like.jpg&hash=15b302095bd227543a9f99d867a03d35)
Coincidence, maybe, but I do think within a little less than 1000 years, something could've transpired in that area. I mean, hell, a lot of the great modern cities aren't THAT old and blew up considerably fast by comparison. Within the time of LoI and DoS(which is still decades in the future), things could've happened, cities could've been built, castles renovated, people moved in, moved out, yadda yadda yadda.
And yeah, i was also under the impression that Walter's Castle wasn't Castlevania either. Dracula goes and finds his own abode. Walter's Castle's like Carmilla's Castle(CotM) or Castle Proserpina, different castles sorta like Castlevania, but not.
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Yeah. It's like I said in the Dracula's Castle thread, all these other castles may contain similar powers of darkness as Castlevania does, but the lack of a connection to Chaos is what makes Dracula's true castle so powerful.
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Yeah. It's like I said in the Dracula's Castle thread, all these other castles may contain similar powers of darkness as Castlevania does, but the lack of a connection to Chaos is what makes Dracula's true castle so powerful.
It's very much like Dracula himself. He's become the Dark Lord, the lord of all vampires(all others bow to him). Doesn't mean there aren't other powerful vampires, it's just Dracula rules them all.
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So in other words...
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-HdNzIwY6ESU/AAAAAAAAAAI/AAAAAAAAACI/qZaP2_xqSUs/photo.jpg)
Pecking order.