Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: 71m07hySm17h on August 31, 2010, 05:05:37 PM
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Hi all, first post here, but I've been lurking for about a year now, so I thought I'd go ahead and register and post, as well as discuss a somewhat confusing topic. I saw it in the IGA topic and thought I'd move it to a separate thread instead of going even further off-topic.
What exactly is the Vampire Killer? I'm just curious because it's regarded as the 'kill-everything' whip but the games are very unspecific what it is. So I just wanted to hear the opinions of fellow Castlevania fans. But just to discuss some types, is it the regular bullwhip as shown in most of the cover art for most games (excluding Rondo, of course)? Is it a flail? Is it a chain whip? If so, what kind? The Asian one with sections or the chainmail whip with a bit of a morning star on the end? Or what? I'd just like to hear some ideas, on what it could be and what it seems would make sense in the term of the games.
Personally, I'd like to think of it as a chainmail whip, with a morning star attached at the end. But I would like to hear some other opinions as well.
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Well seeing as it changes from game to game/power up to power up, I would assume it's not all that specific, but im sure many would disagree with me.
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Going by LoI, it's a whip made from alchemy that is able to take on certain elemental magic properties (fire, ice, lightning). It can also be transformed into a morningstar type weapon. There are alot of other random definitions and opinions on what the VK is and is not, but basically it's a magic whip that can physically change itself and it's the Belmont family heirloom.
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It's a Belmont
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The Vampire Killer is a magical whip containing the soul of one of the best Ayami Kojima-designed characters in the series
even though that only gets mentioned once since it's a huge retcon.
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The Vampire Killer is a magical whip containing the soul of one of the best Ayami Kojima-designed characters in the series
even though that only gets mentioned once since it's a huge retcon.
Sara is one of the best Ayami Kojima-designed characters in the series.
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Sara is one of the best Ayami Kojima-designed characters in the series.
Yes. Uh, thank you for reiterating that.
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Yes. Uh, thank you for reiterating that.
That was supposed to have a question mark >.>
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Really? It houses the soul of the best Ayami charachter design. No not even close, it just houses the soul of one of the best plot devices of IGA.
The whip has had many inarnations. Originaly just a whip capable of killing evil vampires and other fiends. It was then changed to a magical weapon, and later again into a holy weapon. This before eventualy settling it as a mix of all the previous stuff plus a Soul that's now the source of it's evil slaying power. I say, the whip these days has better character development then the majority of castelvania characters we've seen over the years.
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In the first releases, it was called the Mystic Whip. Just check.
Not "the" Vampire Killer which is another stupid plot in Lament of Innocence. :P
(I'm sure many IGA fanboys will attack me again...) :-*
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I still call it the "Mystic whip" as well. And the american game manual for CV3 said that it was given to Trevor from the Polterguist king, but that's not the case anymore. Then IGA comes along and messes with whatever original origins the whip may have once had. To me personally, It has been and will always be an eight-foot long chain whip with a morning star spike-ball attached to it's end. E.P.I.C.!!!
-X
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Really? It houses the soul of the best Ayami charachter design. No not even close, it just houses the soul of one of the best plot devices of IGA.
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi53.tinypic.com%2Fvg5r86.jpg&hash=317226e75873388ff67445a3a924a609)
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi56.tinypic.com%2F29nxm6d.jpg&hash=4d39767871d93d87532b9640308b451d)
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi52.tinypic.com%2F30m0l5g.jpg&hash=67d68180abd6d3d675f0a8bf26fdaae7)
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^ Her eyes are so widely spaced apart. Heehee...
But yeah, it's Sara-chan. Belmonts' Lady.
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"Poltergeist King" never was the case, never made official by Konami. So the whip never had an "established origin" prior to IGA.
Hey X I heard IGA doesn't like the letter X. Doesn't that get you hot?
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In the first releases, it was called the Mystic Whip. Just check.
Not "the" Vampire Killer which is another stupid plot in Lament of Innocence. :P
(I'm sure many IGA fanboys will attack me again...) :-*
It was called the Vampire Killer in Castlevania Bloodlines.
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It was called the Vampire Killer in Castlevania Bloodlines.
Owned.
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*snip*
Her 3D model was absolutely horrible too. Leon, you have horrible taste.
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"Poltergeist King" never was the case, never made official by Konami. So the whip never had an "established origin" prior to IGA.
I'm aware that there never was a poltergeist king. I was just one of those american translations that got stuck in our minds for who-knows how many years.
Hey X I heard IGA doesn't like the letter X. Doesn't that get you hot?
I wonder if I should become Vlad IV- WORLDS WILL PAY!!! *A-hem* 'scuse me...
-X
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The Poltergeist King was also included in the Captain N cartoon I believe
but ne way here is another totally kawaii picture of Sara Trantoul!!!!!
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv119%2Fc0mbat%2Fl.jpg&hash=c648d72a267a9808902233ec5057b458)
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Sara Trantoul's character art is okay. But she looked way too asian in the game itself. It was not a good translation.
-X
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It was called the Vampire Killer in Castlevania Bloodlines.
Absolutely. But the Vampire Killer plot is such a stupid plot !
I prefer the Legends theory, which explains that Belmont's ability is to fight with whips, no a specific whip. Sonia learned to use a whip with her grandfather, it clearly prooves there is not only 1 whip but many whips !
The whip alone isn't the key for fighting the evil forces
--> it's the Belmont's supernatural and strong fighting abilities !
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Vampire Killer be darned.
It's all about the Hunter's Whip.
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Absolutely. But the Vampire Killer plot is such a stupid plot !
I prefer the Legends theory, which explains that Belmont's ability is to fight with whips, no a specific whip. Sonia learned to use a whip with her grandfather, it clearly prooves there is not only 1 whip but many whips !
The whip alone isn't the key for fighting the evil forces
--> it's the Belmont's supernatural and strong fighting abilities !
That actually doesn't prove anything of the sort. It lends no credit to your argument at all really.
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It's not like the Belmonts aren't super strong without a whip either.
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That actually doesn't prove anything of the sort. It lends no credit to your argument at all really.
Actually I also thought that this was the case. Eversince playing my first CV game back in the late 80's (CV2) I had always assumed that the whip or weapons drew their strength from the wielder (Belmont). But I also believed that the "Mystic whip" also had some form of power all on it's own, but when used by a Belmont, it's power maxed out.
-X
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The Vampire Killer? It's a miserable pile of secrets.
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The Vampire Killer is a magical whip containing the soul of one of the best Ayami Kojima-designed characters in the series
even though that only gets mentioned once since it's a huge retcon.
Not really a huge one. Actually, the backstory of SQ contains a mysterious ghost lady who might very well be Sara.
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Heh, funny that you also laid that connection.
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A chain whip with magical/alchemical properties that can change it's shape/form. That's how I've always seen it.
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That actually doesn't prove anything of the sort. It lends no credit to your argument at all really.
Yo
How can you explain both Christopher and Soleiyu fight each other with a whip ? Both are using the Vampire Killer, maybe ? What's the hell....
Just play old games, and you'll see that the Belmonts are using many whips during their journeys to Dracula : Chain Whip, Leather Whip, MorningStar, Flame Whip, etc etc....
And the Belmont's main weapon has been called the Mystic Whip so many times...
Belmont's ability is to fight with whips, just think a little more, for one time.
All the Igarashi's LOI' Vampire Killer story is a stupid plot for kids. Definitely.
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Soleiyu is just...
...using a different whip.
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Soleiyu is just...
...using a different whip.
I agree but hey....A different whip is definitely another whip, which means/prooves the existence of many whips and not only VAMPIRE KILLER.
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Well, it's not like LoI dismisses the existence of other whips. I mean in PoR, Jonathan had Vampire Killer along with a ton of other whips.
It's more like the Belmont clan is skilled with whips, but only the most skilled of the clan can receive the heirloom of the Vampire Killer. Don't ask me why Jonathan can use it.
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Well, it's not like LoI dismisses the existence of other whips. I mean in PoR, Jonathan had Vampire Killer along with a ton of other whips.
Well done ! I have been waiting for this Portrait of Ruin argument.
It's a matter of fact that Igarashi storylines are non-sense with plenty timeline errors and other stupid plots. The Vampire Killer as a weapon supposed to KILL THE NIGHT is one of it.
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Yo
sup.
How can you explain both Christopher and Soleiyu fight each other with a whip ? Both are using the Vampire Killer, maybe ? What's the hell....
Like Alan said, he's just using another whip. Maybe Belmont younglings train with makeshift whips until they're old enough to wield the VK. Has that ever occured to you?
Just play old games, and you'll see that the Belmonts are using many whips during their journeys to Dracula : Chain Whip, Leather Whip, MorningStar, Flame Whip, etc etc....
The chain/leather whip can be argued to be one and the same. It changes through the power of magic infused in it, that's why we see variations such as it having flames, etc.
And the Belmont's main weapon has been called the Mystic Whip so many times...
It's also called "The Holy Whip" in OoE. It's still the same weapon.
Belmont's ability is to fight with whips, just think a little more, for one time.
They can use other whips, but their main whip is the Vampire Killer. Always has been, always will be.
All the Igarashi's LOI' Vampire Killer story is a stupid plot for kids. Definitely.
You're right. Legends had a much better explanation.
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You're right. Legends had a much better explanation.
Thanks for this answer, Crisis.
About this last point : WHO needs an explanation ? It's a fantastical story with many impossible events : vampires, magical creatures and weapons, jumps every seconds without taking breath.....
It's a video game.
So ? Legends just explains that a teen woman is going to free her people from Dracula, fighting with a whip after having learn whip arts from her grandfather. How great. Who cares the scenario of a video game ? If you want a great tale, I suggest you to read tales or novels. Not to play video games.
Sara's story is inconsistent and ebony stones and crimson stones making supernatural vampires/whips are just stories for kids, that's what I think.
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Well, I think Sonia learning the whip arts from her grandfather to fight for justice is a story just for kids (so children's superhero show)! What do you think about that?!
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Thanks for this answer, Crisis.
:-*
About this last point : WHO needs an explanation ? It's a fantastical story with many impossible events : vampires, magical creatures and weapons, jumps every seconds without taking breath.....
If there wasn't an explanation, then we'd be reading countless "where did the Belmont whip come from" topics
It's a video game.
It is, so why do you get mad when people say CASTLEVANIA 64?
So ? Legends just explains that a teen woman is going to free her people from Dracula, fighting with a whip after having learn whip arts from her grandfather. How great. Who cares the scenario of a video game ? If you want a great tale, I suggest you to read tales or novels. Not to play video games.
WE care. And you do too, if you didn't then you wouldn't be talking about it right now, or ever.
Sara's story is inconsistent and ebony stones and crimson stones making supernatural vampires/whips are just stories for kids, that's what I think.
To each his own
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Well, I think Sonia learning the whip arts from her grandfather to fight for justice is a story just for kids (so children's superhero show)! What do you think about that?!
You're perfectly RIGHT.
Rather simple storyline which fits perfectly to Castlevania.
Castlevania is not Final Fantasy, Xenogears or Metal Gear. Just play THESE games if you want a story for everything.
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Rather simple storyline which fits perfectly to Castlevania.
It's not the 90s anymore. People expect more than a "simple story."
Castlevania is not Final Fantasy, Xenogears or Metal Gear. Just play THESE games if you want a story for everything.
A game doesn't have to be an RPG to have good gameplay, graphics, story, etc.
Did you know Hideo Kojima is involved with LoS?
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Yeah, LoS is going to be the heaviest on story Castlevania ever has been. I don't see why you're not hating on that more than IGA's, to be frank, simple and mostly absent storytelling.
Seriously. In LoS, there's a monologue before every stage. I wouldn't really mind LoS's story if it didn't seem like it will be as heavy-handed as it currently is with all those cutscenes, especially when they seem to just be ways to advance Gabriel through a level instead of letting the player walk Gabriel there. Of course, this is mostly based on my impressions from the demo and that gameplay video with the fetch quest.
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Did you know Hideo Kojima is involved with LoS?
Oh really ?
8)
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Of course, this is mostly based on my impressions from the demo and that gameplay video with the fetch quest.
There's a demo now? I need more information!
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I meant the one shown at E3. Sorry. ; - ;
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Oh, OKAY!
I was excited, for a moment. :O
Thanks for the clarification.
Not that I can do anything about it. PS3's in an uproar over this Jailbreak thing and there's updates to the PSP firmware that I don't feel like doing right now. Wouldn't be able to download anything right now anyway.
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Just play old games, and you'll see that the Belmonts are using many whips during their journeys to Dracula : Chain Whip, Leather Whip, MorningStar, Flame Whip, etc etc....
I actually laughed at this. Because there were THREE whips in Lament of Innocence. LoI never implied that the Belmonts only use one whip. Vampire Killer is the family heirloom/chosen/signature/best whip and LoI explained why that is. What this has to do with the bloodline/skill at using a whip each Belmont has is beyond me.
I get the distinct feeling that you're complaining for the sake of complaining. All you have to say is that you didn't like it. At the very least, it would make more sense.
All the Igarashi's LOI' Vampire Killer story is a stupid plot for kids. Definitely.
There, see? That's all you had to say. "It's stupid and I don't like it."
In my opinion, it was no less 'kid-ish' than any of the other plots in the Castlevania series.
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Say what you want about LoI's plot, but it was the first one to give an actual personal reason for the Belmonts to do what they do.
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LoI had a great plot that didn't stray far from the classic story style. It even had a captive love interest. I just didn't agree with the whip being an alchemical weapon, as opposed to holy.
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LoI had a great plot that didn't stray far from the classic story style. It even had a captive love interest. I just didn't agree with the whip being an alchemical weapon, as opposed to holy.
Rinaldo said, "The field (alchemy) experiments with the principles of God's creation of the world." So I guess one could interpret that as an application of holy power. But that's kind of a stretch.
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Alchemy in itself is not really all that mysterious. In reality, it is the patriarch of both Science and Chemistry. so in a sense, all of us are learning a form of alchemy when in school.
-X
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Alchemy in itself is not really all that mysterious. In reality, it is the patriarch of both Science and Chemistry. so in a sense, all of us are learning a form of alchemy when in school.
-X
Not really.
"Alchemy is both a philosophy and an ancient practice focused on the attempt to change base metals into gold, investigating the preparation of the "elixir of longevity", and achieving ultimate wisdom, involving the improvement of the alchemist as well as the making of several substances described as possessing unusual properties."
"Chemistry is the science of matter and the changes it undergoes."
Alchemy is bogus for the most part and was based heavily on wishful thinking and superstitions, but the research made in pursuit of the goals of alchemy did give birth to the scientific field of chemistry. That doesn't make chemistry a form of alchemy.
Though here's an interesting tidbit; we've actually learned how to synthesize gold from other materials, actually fulfilling one of the original goals of alchemy. Modern science acheived what real-world alchemy never could have.
If you stripped the concept of alchemy down to the bare minimum of "a method of changing one pure substance into another" then alchemy could be argued for as existing.
...
Sorry about the science lesson. XD
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Sorry about the science lesson. XD
No problem bro ;)
But I have looked it up from verious sources (not the internet) and I can safely say that my asumption is true to an extent. Nostradamus himself practist alchemy, but it's not just that whole 'turn lead into gold' thing as many of us are brought up to think whenever we hear the word. Alchemy was the first true science and chemistry of the ancient civilized world before it was branded herecy by the church. You are correct in what you've told me about alchemy, but I've also brought in some facts about it too. So in a sense, we've filled in all the mysteries about what alchemy real is. How any of this alchemy pertains to the creation of the Vampirekiller is all in IGA's head. IMO it probably should've stayed there. :P
-X
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LoI had a great plot that didn't stray far from the classic story style. It even had a captive love interest. I just didn't agree with the whip being an alchemical weapon, as opposed to holy.
The part about having to use the whip on her was interesting, but otherwise I found the love interest very simplistic and boring (like most other female vg characters). Sara had zero personality, which kind of killed any potential depth.
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The part about having to use the whip on her was interesting, but otherwise I found the love interest very simplistic and boring (like most other female vg characters). Sara had zero personality, which kind of killed any potential depth.
I agree, but then again, that's hardly uncommon in the Castlevania series...
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It also didn't help you didn't meet her until halfway in the game. The impact of Mathias being Dracula also suffered from this. Not that I think Castlevania needs deep and fleshed out relations between characters but they could have tried to make us care a little bit. :(
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It also didn't help you didn't meet her until halfway in the game. The impact of Mathias being Dracula also suffered from this. Not that I think Castlevania needs deep and fleshed out relations between characters but they could have tried to make us care a little bit. :(
And this could have easily been accomplished by having, say, Leon and Rinaldo talk about them. I don't really understand why they didn't do that...
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Actually I think they should have cut down the Rinaldo conversations a bit, I think flashbacks would have been better since that would have made it more exciting.
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One thing I wonder about is that whole thing with "The whips Memory" in PoR, so when they pass it down, they have to technically fight their fathers/grandfathers everytime? I mean I understand Jonathan wasn't belmont but that still makes me wonder about the whips memory. Which one last thing I wonder about is, is the whip alive? I mean if it has Sara's soul then I guess its her, but if thats true, what a picky b***h for not allowing John to use it!
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I think only the Morris' had to deal with the whip's memory, it wouldn't make sense for each Belmont to fight their father/grandfather, the ones who trained them.
Then again the whole idea of the whip's memory was kinda silly to begin with.
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I wouldn't let Jonafag use me if I was a weapon either. I'd be sure he would get his ass kicked like the little pussy he is. Makes complete sense to me. How can you trust a clown like him.