Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: theplottwist on May 12, 2014, 10:21:36 PM
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Back at the Rumor topic, people started debating over Dracula being defeated by anyone, and I've my own speculation about it, which is, only Dracula's power can match his own power. The Vampire Killer is also part of his power.
It goes like this:
Everyone here is familiar with Lament of Innocence, so everyone knows that Mathias became a vampire by using Walter's soul. Now, the Vampire Killer is a part of Walter, who vampirized Sara. This means that the soul contained there is imbued with Walter's power, which is now Dracula's. So this means that the Belmonts have been using Dracula's power against himself all this time.
What about the other heroes, you say?
Alucard? Dracula's blood, even possesses some of his powers.
Hector? Dracula's direct apprendice. Learned his trade with Dracula himself (and possibly acquired some of his dark power manipulation).
Shanoa? Dominus.
Another detail is that Jonathan apparently used the Vampire Killer to banish Dracula, canonically.
All others are not canon, so I'm considering only canon battles. Also, I'm setting aside gameplay-related info, like the Vampire Killer being "holy" even though it's a vampirized soul inside it.
Finally, I think "normal" attacks can weaken him, but only a death-blow dealt with his power can banish him, as seen in Order of Ecclesia, where only dealing high enough damage (9999) BEFORE the death blow with Dominus can Dracula be destroyed.
What do you think?
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What about when someone completes the final boss battle in CV 3 using Grant or Sypha? That game is canon. Or using Maria in Rondo?
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What about when someone completes the final boss battle in CV 3 using Grant or Sypha? That game is canon. Or using Maria in Rondo?
That's a gameplay element. Aparently, Trevor was the one to land the final blow, canonically. Also, against Dracula there were all four characters, not two like the game allows. Maria is not canon.
Gameplay elements hardly weight anything on story elements (one of the reasons I find quite useless to try to explain why the whip gets longer or changes into a chain when you collect a powerup. Storywise, makes zero sense considering why the heck would Dracula hide a powerup on a candle for his enemy to take, or meat inside the walls).
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or meat inside the walls
It's the flea men's lunch. :V
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Gameplay elements hardly weight anything on story elements (one of the reasons I find quite dumb to try to explain why the whip gets longer or changes into a chain when you collect a powerup. Storywise, makes zero sense considering why the heck would Dracula hide a powerup on a candle for his enemy to take, or meat inside the walls).
Yeah good point. I was kinda tryin to be a bit of a smartass too with that one. But, on a serious note, one thing this topic made me wonder, is since the Morris clan is canon, and the part about Quincy dying while killing Drac is also a pivotal point brought up in the series, how exactly does the whip fit into the Quincy Morris story? Quincy killed Drac with a bowie knife, according to the novel, and died as a result of being stabbed by one of Drac's henchmen while Drac was fleeing to his castle. And, since John Morris was said to have witnessed his father's death, then are we to believe that John managed to tag along unnoticed all the way from England with Van Helsing's posse all the way to Transylvania? Or, did they have a re-imagining planned for the CV version where Drac was killed in England like in some of the film versions? It would be highly plausible for John to have witnessed it if it happened in England, but then Drac would have had no gipsy servants around to mortally wound Quincy with. All of that really makes me want to see a CV game done that is a complete retelling of the events of 1897, where Quincy becomes the main man recruited by Van Helsing to destroy Drac, with Carfax Abbey redone as his new "castle," with Quincy holding the Vampire Killer. And, to explain his death at the hands of Drac's minions, maybe Renfield could finally enter into the CV mythos and deal the mortal blow to Quincy.
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Or using Maria in Rondo?
Maria is actually a Belmont descendant and not at all blood-related to Annet Renard. Maria even mentions in Rondo that she has the same Blood as Richter Belmont in her. This would have allowed her to defeat Dracula. How she found that little fact out is not mentioned unfortunately. Story-wise she helps Richter defeat Dracula but that's all.
What about when someone completes the final boss battle in CV 3 using Grant or Sypha? That game is canon.
I personally think it's game mechanics and not the actual story element since Trevor is the one who is canonized to deal the deathblow to Dracula. The others added to weakening him but that's about it I think.
Shanoa was able to kill Dracula but she had more the just Dominus. The Magical properties of the Belmont decedents that Albus had collected along with Albus' soul was fused into Dominus and Shanoa took it all within her. However to use Dominus would be suicide so Albus took Shanoa's place as the sacrifice.
I was never fond of the CoD story that "conveniently" Removed Trevor so that only Hector could face Dracula. And the other "convenient" excuse was that Dracula was not at full power when Hector faced him. CoD should not have happened. Also I'm not entirely sure that Devil Forging is apart of Dracula's power. It might be something different. All I know is that it's powerful enough to rival Death's power.
Johnathan was able to slay Dracula. Not only by using the unlocked power of the Vampirekiller but also because he has the Belmont blood within him. Like his father Jon Morris before him. Eric Lecarde was also able to kill Dracula so he must also be of Belmont decent and was wielding the Alucard spear. However story-wise I'd say that while Jon battled Dracula, Eric was avenging his lover's death by slaying Elizabeth Bartly.
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Shanoa was able to kill Dracula but she had more the just Dominus. The Magical properties of the Belmont decedents that Albus had collected along with Albus' soul was fused into Dominus and Shanoa took it all within her. However to use Dominus would be suicide so Albus took Shanoa's place as the sacrifice.
We have no guarantee that these "magical properties" were fused into Dominus. All we know is that Albus injected himself with the blood because he believed it'd allow him to control Dominus, which was not true, resulting in his madness. (Which leads me to believe that Belmont blood is not directly strong against Dracula, and Dracula COULD drink from it if he wanted, like the other topic is discussing).
I was never fond of the CoD story that "conveniently" Removed Trevor so that only Hector could face Dracula. And the other "convenient" excuse was that Dracula was not at full power when Hector faced him. CoD should not have happened. Also I'm not entirely sure that Devil Forging is apart of Dracula's power. It might be something different. All I know is that it's powerful enough to rival Death's power.
The game mentions somewhere, if I recall correctly, that Dracula taught them how to manipulate darkness into forming demons. I think Hector himself says this upon Dracula's final gloating. Besides, Hector fell under Dracula's Curse, but "relinquished" it's influence. Maybe it could make him have Dracula's power inside him, now being used as part of his strength?
Johnathan was able to slay Dracula. Not only by using the unlocked power of the Vampirekiller but also because he has the Belmont blood within him. Like his father Jon Morris before him. Eric Lecarde was also able to kill Dracula so he must also be of Belmont decent and was wielding the Alucard spear. However story-wise I'd say that while Jon battled Dracula, Eric was avenging his lover's death by slaying Elizabeth Bartly.
Well, like you said, Eric didn't fight Dracula. Story-wise, only those either in possession of the VK or having something with direct ties with Dracula were able to kill him. About the VK, I think Belmont blood is necessary only for wielding it, and nothing more. Belmont blood has no relation to Dracula's defeat. It's all about the whip itself, which has Dracula's power in it.
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I did find CoD unnessesary to exist, for a few reasons...
Trevor's slaying of Dracula is what made the Legend, Hector's story completely tarnishes the Belmont legacy before it even started.
Devil Forging was cool, but didn't have any Cv3 referencing, What was the entire use of having devil forgers if a curse spawns all the monsters?
also, why can't you summon anything referring to Cv3, It's like saying you helped but contributed nothing.
It could have worked out better if IGA remade Cv3 first, added Hector/Isaac as indirect bosses, and then made CoD.
All and all CoD is just a victim in the bloating in the timeline, I think Konami knew this pre-IGA with Bloodlines and Cv64 being alternate timelines.
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It could have worked out better if IGA remade Cv3 first, added Hector/Isaac as indirect bosses, and then made CoD.
that would have been cool.
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I did find CoD unnessesary to exist, for a few reasons...
Trevor's slaying of Dracula is what made the Legend, Hector's story completely tarnishes the Belmont legacy before it even started.
Devil Forging was cool, but didn't have any Cv3 referencing, What was the entire use of having devil forgers if a curse spawns all the monsters?
also, why can't you summon anything referring to Cv3, It's like saying you helped but contributed nothing.
It could have worked out better if IGA remade Cv3 first, added Hector/Isaac as indirect bosses, and then made CoD.
All and all CoD is just a victim in the bloating in the timeline, I think Konami knew this pre-IGA with Bloodlines and Cv64 being alternate timelines.
Regarding Issac and Hector not being bosses in CV3 and a remake of CV3 possibly having them as bosses, no. If you remember, some years back, there was a CoD manga (cancelled after 2 volumes) and in it it is explained that while Trevor and company were fighting Dracula, Hector had already left Dracula and Issac had be sent after him. Actually, there is a scene in the second volume where Hector and Issac are fighting when they sense Dracula's defeat and Issac's behavior suddenly changes (probably when the curse took hold of him).
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u know whats funny? i've had those cod mangas for several years now (as well as the Belmont Legacy comic book series), but i still havent even read any of it :-X
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The CoD manga was incomplete. It really needs the cancelled 3rd volume.
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Wasn't the art incredibly hideous, though?
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Wasn't the art incredibly hideous, though?
Not really.
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Wasn't the art incredibly hideous, though?
Only if your not into excessive doses of pretty boys. The manga is the same as the box art work last time I read the net translations.
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Not really.
Huh, I've no idea what I was thinking of:
http://castlevania.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Curse_of_Darkness_Manga_Clip_Art (http://castlevania.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Curse_of_Darkness_Manga_Clip_Art)
At worst it's just the usual manga look. Maybe I was thinking of the CV Adventure comic's tubby blue dracula.
Only if your not into excessive doses of pretty boys. The manga is the same as the box art work last time I read the net translations.
I think you're thinking of the pre-order manga that game with the Japanese version of Curse, not the two-volume comic book.
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I think you're thinking of the pre-order manga that game with the Japanese version of Curse, not the two-volume comic book.
I'd have to agree as I've already inspected the manga from that link you posted and it's not the same one I read.