Topic: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego

[Belmont Stakes]

I have been thinking about this subject for some time. I have a bit of passing interest in pisseyecology and I wonder what you guys think about the subject of narcissism and its roots in culture, religion and philosophy. This post is a spin off and tangent from the my dad is a racist post http://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/index.php/topic,4531.msg94446.html#msg94446. As the topic implies what do you believe is really the truth? Which one really exists? My own belief is the second one gives rise to the first.

[X]

I feel it is the Human Ego (biological identity) that gives rise to thoughts and ideas about what evil is and where it comes from. The Ego is of our finite minds; limited in it's thinking and believes it knows everything if given the chance to think so. The Devil never existed prior to Jesus' teachings and only came about during the time of Emperor Constantine and saint Paul (Three centuries after Christ). They were the sole proprietors of this twisted concept along with other biblical things. It's interesting to note that one of the original blueprints for the creation of the Devil is the Greek star constellation; Capricorn. I myself am a Capricorn so I do find the whole Devil thing to be a slap in the face somewhat. But even before the Devil came along there has been numerous explanations as to what evil really is and where it originates. A book I read; A History of the Devil, goes into a detailed analysis about many possible origins of evil from a purely philosophical point of view of cultures all over the world. But in the end what it all boils down to is humanity's own ego. Properly controlled and disciplined the ego can help us given the right situations, but if not controlled, the ego becomes the very manipulative and feeds the person feelings, thoughts and ideas that will make others believe that something is horribly wrong with that person. For a really good example of the Ego in action go see Star Trek: ToS episode "The Enemy Within". Other great references come from all the despots and dictators that have come and gone throughout the ages. They are also a great source of study what it comes to one's own Ego.

[Abnormal Freak]

The Devil never existed prior to Jesus' teachings and only came about during the time of Emperor Constantine and saint Paul (Three centuries after Christ).

Paul was three centuries after Christ? Josephus would like to have a word with you. ;p Unless you simply meant Constantine, in which case that's a poorly structured sentence.

And Jesus said that the Devil is Baal (hence Beelzebub), who obviously was worshiped long before Jesus was born.

I believe in a physical devil, the fallen angel Lucifer. Though I also believe in the fallen nature of man, that we're all born into sin because of the disobedience of Adam and Eve. Thus, wicked acts aren't necessarily the doing of the devil, though he performs only wicked acts and can goad believers and unbelievers to fall into traps of sin.

Dunno if anybody cares, but I wrote a poem that kinda deals with the issue you're asking about. ;p

http://www.variedcelluloid.net/dominique/unman.html

[PFG9000]

Holy Cats, Freak, I never thought you believed that.  That sums up my beliefs on the devil too.

[Dracula9]

This is a tricky one.
Since good and evil are truly relative and perceptive terms, I find it very hard to believe that there is a true, absolute good and a true, absolute evil. Where one group might see something as good, others might see it as evil. This creates more tension, in my opinion, than any debate over the existence of God or the Devil. Actually, I think that this opinionated conflict is either unknown or unmentioned, and is the very root of the 'greater power' arguments.

That isn't to say that I don't believe in anything; I do believe in God, just not in the manner in which he is portrayed so widely. my beliefs of the relativity of good and evil disproves the Christian teachings to me because the Christian faith, and the Catholic Church in particular, have done many a foul deed in the past under the pretense of justice or divine providence. The Crusades, for instance, were a mass slaughter of innocents under the gist of "because their holy stuff should be OUR holy stuff," and those that fought back were branded as evil, sacrilegious heretics who were either hunted and killed or exiled. One can preach "this is good, this is bad," but when they contradict themselves and do that bad and say it's good, they fall victim to the egotism of the true believer; that one can do no wrong if he or she is willed to do it by God or is repentant of his or her predefined sins.

The ego comes into play when a particular belief, however humble or true in its message, is contradicted by the actions of its followers. Those who will abuse the standing and power of a long-rooted faith will often justify themselves with the beliefs they are slowly killing. It's being able to get away with anything, and play the "it's God's Will" card or the "the Devil made me do it!" card. Either way, the original meaning(s) of the religion or belief are screwed over because of the egos of a few pious assholes.

[uzo]

Holy Cats, Freak, I never thought you believed that.  That sums up my beliefs on the devil too.

I third this.

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled, was convince the world he doesn't exist.

There are some interesting alternate theories and quirks about the devil too, which I may share sometime later.

[A-Yty]

The devil is as real as your imagination makes him. A convenient way to project human evil into a separate entity. Even if devil were a relentless corruptor and tormentor of souls, he could never be as evil as a human being at its worst.

[Abnormal Freak]

Holy Cats, Freak, I never thought you believed that.  That sums up my beliefs on the devil too.

I'm the religious one of ICVD. :p I used to bring it up on occasion, but now I mostly stick to dick and fart jokes. Keeps the peace.

[X]

Paul was three centuries after Christ? Josephus would like to have a word with you. ;p Unless you simply meant Constantine, in which case that's a poorly structured sentence.

I'll understand if you doubt me, however I've done my share of research that wasn't done behind the closed doors of any church (or the Vatican for that matter). I've looked in books, notes and watched documentaries about how Christianity got it's start. Saint Paul was a self-proclaimed Disciple of Jesus and there's the fact that they lived three whole centuries apart from one-another. Another fact to back this up is that both Paul and Constantine were the ones to usher in Pauline (Pauls's version of) Christianity together throughout the Roman world. So unless Paul is semi-immortal, then there is no way he could personally or possibly know Jesus. Besides, the Head Disciple that Jesus chose to replace him was Mary Magdalene. And here's another "Church-rocker". She was his wife and the mother of his children.

When it comes to Religion, I ask questions. The BIG questions that no-one else wants to or is afraid to and I dig and dig till all the secrets are brought up to light. I don't care if people castrate me, segregate me or threaten me with death for this as I do it for my own justification. God gave me a mind of my own along with his most important gift called 'Curiosity' and I'll use it how I see fit. God knows this and yet he hasn't sent down his so-called wrath to kill me. Maybe it's because She loves me and understands me unconditionally like she does with every other human being out there.

[Kale]

The devil is as real as your imagination makes him. A convenient way to project human evil into a separate entity. Even if devil were a relentless corruptor and tormentor of souls, he could never be as evil as a human being at its worst.

One could argue that human being at their worst is the devil's work.

[Abnormal Freak]

I'll understand if you doubt me, however I've done my share of research that wasn't done behind the closed doors of any church (or the Vatican for that matter). I've looked in books, notes and watched documentaries about how Christianity got it's start. Saint Paul was a self-proclaimed Disciple of Jesus and there's the fact that they lived three whole centuries apart from one-another. Another fact to back this up is that both Paul and Constantine were the ones to usher in Pauline (Pauls's version of) Christianity together throughout the Roman world. So unless Paul is semi-immortal, then there is no way he could personally or possibly know Jesus. Besides, the Head Disciple that Jesus chose to replace him was Mary Magdalene. And here's another "Church-rocker". She was his wife and the mother of his children.

The old bupkis continues to spread. I haven't bothered to look into much of that myself, but my brother who's also an extremely inquisitive person who knows well his history and studies it hard has come to the conclusion that it's all bunk.

Which it is.

[Inccubus]

Haven't read the whole thread, but I will say this: Narcissism (ego), on my ex's part is the root cause of my divorce last year and all the subsequent drama she caused us and our mutual friends.

[A-Yty]

One could argue that human being at their worst is the devil's work.

As a kid, there was a short time I thought vampires were real.

[Opium]

I don't believe the devil exists any more than I believe in the tooth fairy, unicorns, leprechauns, or any god(s).  I believe that human beings create fictional deities for several reasons, the most obvious of which is man's (the ego's) attempt to explain nature. So to answer the question: ego exists, the devil does not. The devil pretty much personifies evil, which is practically synonymous with fear.  I guess one could also argue about whether or not evil exists, but only if the definition were agreed upon.  I believe that anything could be described as evil, as any beholder can describe anything however they please since it's a matter of opinion.  So if evil is just an adjective, then of course it exists. But I think that most people who argue for the existence of evil believe it is an actual force or energy in the universe which can affect the physical world, and some even believe that there is a deity which is the source of that energy (the devil).  I don't see any evidence that evil, or good, exists as an actual force or energy.
I've also heard people argue that good and evil exist as forces which have some kind of balance, like positive and negative.  Again I have to say 'where's the evidence?'  And even if one did actually exist, that is no argument at all for the existence of the other.  Energy doesn't have to have some kind of polar opposite.  Like light and darkness -light actually exists, darkness does not.  Darkness is just a word which describes the absence of light, just as cold simply describes the absence of heat.  So if someone wishes to believe in good, they don't have to necessarily believe in evil.  Sounds like a much happier outlook, anyways.

[A-Yty]

If darkness is the absence of light, is life the absence of death..?