Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => Fan Stuff => Topic started by: Zydalc on January 12, 2015, 11:06:22 PM
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I've decided to create a separate thread about any further discussion regarding a potential Carmilla based Castlevania game (note: she's not the same Carmilla from the Castlevania game which I'm trying to figure how to make them separate or rather the games take place in a different universe than what's considered 'canon') that I've mentioned about in several threads now which I do know for a fact that sprite has already been created based on the 'concepts' I've presented (http://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/index.php/topic,3650.msg172667.html#msg172667) in another thread (http://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/index.php/topic,7759.msg172675.html#msg172675).
Well basically let me explain about my story ideas I have (of course though there maybe people here who might have better ideas that they're welcome to share).
So I'm thinking of splitting two games, the first one being similar to Castlevania: Lecarde Chronicles (http://the-mig-page.wifeo.com/castlevania-the-lecarde-chronicles-2013.php) for which it doesn't involve Dracula but rather Carmilla (whose original name was Mircalla Karnstein) solving her own 'family issues' inside the Karnstein Family Castle somewhere in Europe that would look similar to Katharina Von Viltheim's from the Lecarde Chronicles and perhaps the antagonist is her own father who made a deal with Count Dracula during the 16th century which Dracula turned the entire Karnstein bloodline into Vampires and also their castle itself becomes alot like Dracula's & Katharina's. Of course I've also mentioned about the prospect of Mircalla get's betrayed by her own family (due to some reason..) and they put her into Torpor (Vampire: The Masquerade term for vampires sleeping for centuries) until Carmilla wakes up during the early 1870s and begins plotting revenge which she returns to the Family Castle which she is surprised that it's rather "changed" all these years than she remembered (like the Castle being bigger, and perhaps updated and "remodeled" from centuries following into a Rocco/Gothic/art nouveau/Victorian mixing in with it's original 16th century architecture in some places).
Or alternatively, I don't know if the creator of the "Lecarde Chronicles" posts in this forum but if so then I wonder if it's okay we could use the Von Viltheims instead of the Karnsteins which might be easier which Carmilla could easily be Mircalla Von Viltheim (or Carmilla Von Vilheim) and her mother could simply be Katharina and instead of Efrain Lecarde going after and destroying her, it's actually Carmilla during the late 18th century (or maybe it could be still the 1870s though and it's not like the Lecarde chronicles is 'canon' at anyway but rather a 'alternative universe' take on it).
As for the second game which is perhaps the easiest, it's when Carmilla/Mircalla goes after Dracula no doubtfully during the late 19th century (the 1870s) which she then meets a certain "Laura Belmont" who then become 'lovers'...
I wish I could write more on the story subject but this is all I can write for now but if anyone has a better 'story' idea I would be more than happy to hear it.
As for Carmilla's Vampiric powers, she pretty can access to all of them such as shape shifting into mist, shadows, bats (single and swarms when 'teleporting'), wolves, cats, owls, and even having her own demon form, flight, enhanced strength/speed/senses, Psychic Powers, Telekinesis, Pyrokinesis, Lasombra/Obtenebration style Shadow Manipulation (like "Arms of the Abyss" and such), Tremere/Thaumaturgy style Blood Sorcery, Necromancy, Demon Summoning (or using hellfire as a weapon), or basically any form of magic she can get her hands on or basically let's just say she'll be just as powerful as Dracula himself....
As for her feeding methods, I could imagine not only the traditional method (neck biting...if somehow that could be portrayed in a side scrolling game) but also Legacy of Kain style feeding including shooting a projectile that causes the victim's blood shooting out to her and a more powerful spell that causes everyone's blood go to her which quickly replenishes her blood meter. Speaking of which blood is basically her health meter of course her major weaknesses are holy items of course like crosses, holy water, etc that the Belmonts carry.
Well this is all I can write for now but if anyone is willing to add anything to this I would be glad.
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Carmilla and her castle both hail from Austria. Just in case you did know yet ;)
As for her feeding methods, I could imagine not only the traditional method (neck biting...if somehow that could be portrayed in a side scrolling game)
I'm sure you already know this but Carmilla doesn't feed like your standard vampire. She does this when both her and her victims are asleep; in their dreams essentially. This is where her Panther form comes into play. I read the book a good many years ago but I still remember it quite clearly. And while her real body is submerged in a blood-filled stone tomb beneath the ruins of her family estate, she has a physical projection of herself running around and interacting with things and people. I believe Carmilla is more of a metaphysical vampire then a regular vampire. This would help you to separate your Carmilla from the CV Carmilla as she would be able to project more then one copy of herself. This would also explain why she doesn't die since it's not her real body that was harmed. It would be interesting to see what you can do with her character in-game.
I also liked the idea of her victim Laura being of Belmont blood. This would put it in the CV universe but it would be like a Gaiden (side story) of sorts. And if you decide to make her a blood-Belmont then also give her a whip. Now since the Vampirekiller in in the hands of the main family line she could have a different whip; say the Undead killer from Portrait of Ruin. That whip has the ability to permanently kill those blood-soaked skeletons that keep regenerating. And with Carmilla's real body soaked in blood the Undead killer would become an indispensable necessity for taking her out permanently.
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Carmilla and her castle both hail from Austria. Just in case you did know yet ;)
So is the Von Viltheims....hmmm...potetial making Carmilla/Mircellia a Von Viltheim instead or maybe a connection with the Karnsteins and Von Viltheims? Maybe Carmilla/Mircella's mother's maiden name was a Von Viltheim and she married a Karnstein? Hmmm...maybe the Von Viltheim 'curse' also extended to Carmilla's mother and including Carmilla/Mircella since they are of Von Viltheim bloodline while her husband is not? Maybe something happens to him...
I'm sure you already know this but Carmilla doesn't feed like your standard vampire. She does this when both her and her victims are asleep; in their dreams essentially. This is where her Panther form comes into play. I read the book a good many years ago but I still remember it quite clearly. And while her real body is submerged in a blood-filled stone tomb beneath the ruins of her family estate, she has a physical projection of herself running around and interacting with things and people. I believe Carmilla is more of a metaphysical vampire then a regular vampire. This would help you to separate your Carmilla from the CV Carmilla as she would be able to project more then one copy of herself. This would also explain why she doesn't die since it's not her real body that was harmed. It would be interesting to see what you can do with her character in-game.
I also liked the idea of her victim Laura being of Belmont blood. This would put it in the CV universe but it would be like a Gaiden (side story) of sorts. And if you decide to make her a blood-Belmont then also give her a whip. Now since the Vampirekiller in in the hands of the main family line she could have a different whip; say the Undead killer from Portrait of Ruin. That whip has the ability to permanently kill those blood-soaked skeletons that keep regenerating. And with Carmilla's real body soaked in blood the Undead killer would become an indispensable necessity for taking her out permanently.
Well I originally intended to have Carmilla as a player character and you know, I just have a perfect idea how to enhance the story a bit with this in mind.
Maybe perhaps I could expand on the "betrayal" part which maybe the rest of her family members (maybe the Von Viltheims?) sealed her in a blood covered tomb during the 16th century, which Carmilla then created projections of herself that represent different aspects of her (like rage, melancholy, etc), as her only means of interacting with the outside world until maybe she lures Laura or someone into her tomb using one of her projections to finally free her from her prison which the Carmilla you play as is the real one that was released from her blood soaked tomb and now ready to wreck revenge who betrayed her centuries ago.
Of course though what's described in the novel is one of her projections with her interactions with Laura but maybe I could imagine the real Carmilla inside the crypt is more of a normal vampire like Dracula is.
I think further help on how the story goes would be appreciative (as long Carmilla and Laura are both the protagonists in the story...especially the former since if Dracula was the protagonist in "Lords of Shadow 2" why not Carmilla?) especially who betrays Carmilla (or maybe it was a act of a 'transgression' or something) which lead her being sealed up in her blood soaked tomb and who releases her centuries later (like during the late 19th century).
Also you may noticed that I'm somehow connecting the Lecarde Chronicles (http://the-mig-page.wifeo.com/castlevania-the-lecarde-chronicles-2013.php) with this or shouldn't be used at all? Of course one major problem with this is that at the end of the Lecarde chronicles, the Von Viltheim castle was destroyed along with it's members like Katharina and such which could be Carmilla's potential targets and the ones who betrayed her. Maybe instead we could use the Karnsteins or maybe both? Also according to Lecarde chronicles Katharina 'made a deal with the devil' of course the 'devil' could be Dracula himself which leads Carmilla to him?
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The title will be fun to watch. "Carmilla" with the moon shaped "C" :rollseyes:
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Just thought of something Zydalc. You've mentioned how you want Carmilla to be the protagonist in your game right? Why not do a sequel to it and that way you can have Laura as the Belmont protagonist in there. Heck you could even have it so as both Carmilla the vampire and Laura the Belmont are both playable characters in another game making this a trilogy of games.
It's also interesting to note that while Carmilla "plays" with her food before eating it, she feels a much stronger love connection to Laura than any other woman. I felt this was evident in the novel and it would be useful in your game's story as well. And while Laura is slowly dying because of Carmilla feeding off of her life, Carmilla doesn't really want to hurt Laura, yet she can't resist the temptation to feed off of her.
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Just thought of something Zydalc. You've mentioned how you want Carmilla to be the protagonist in your game right? Why not do a sequel to it and that way you can have Laura as the Belmont protagonist in there. Heck you could even have it so as both Carmilla the vampire and Laura the Belmont are both playable characters in another game making this a trilogy of games.
It's also interesting to note that while Carmilla "plays" with her food before eating it, she feels a much stronger love connection to Laura than any other woman. I felt this was evident in the novel and it would be useful in your game's story as well. And while Laura is slowly dying because of Carmilla feeding off of her life, Carmilla doesn't really want to hurt Laura, yet she can't resist the temptation to feed off of her.
Well...one solution Carmilla can always turn Laura into a Vampire you know...
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There is that possibility. But what if Carmilla thought as Dracula did and didn't want to corrupt Laura. When it comes to vampires there is just something so tantalizing about humans. Maybe it's because we aren't cold-as-death to the touch as a vampire is. Dracula felt something for Lisa and I'm pretty sure Carmilla also feels this in a similar way about Laura. It would be easier to ask the writer of the novel about the Carmilla+Laura relationship, but unfortunately she's been dead now for over a century :P
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There is that possibility. But what if Carmilla thought as Dracula did and didn't want to corrupt Laura. When it comes to vampires there is just something so tantalizing about humans. Maybe it's because we aren't cold-as-death to the touch as a vampire is. Dracula felt something for Lisa and I'm pretty sure Carmilla also feels this in a similar way about Laura. It would be easier to ask the writer of the novel about the Carmilla+Laura relationship, but unfortunately she's been dead now for over a century :P
Maybe then again, Carmilla might be different than Dracula who might be a transhumanist who sees humanity not only as a source of feeding but also as a "chrysalis" that could become something more greater than they currently are (well rather Carmilla might be really picky who becomes a Vampire and who does not which she has her own reasons since she might feel that not everyone deserves eternal life [these are the ones she sees as food] only those she deems worthy and she 'rewards' them...maybe she has a "Angel of Death" complex which is one of the ways how she handles her vampirism) which might be one of the reasons she has a connection to Laura because she's a clearly a warrior in this adaption which Carmilla simply wants to take her to the next step up because she feels she's worthy of becoming of a vampire and she feels it would be a pity to loose her dying in old age....
In short, I think Carmilla 'saves' what she feels as the the best of humanity that are rewarded with vampirism but those otherwise are food, and possibly she doesn't really see Vampirism as 'corruption' but rather a 'evolution'. Perhaps in otherwords she might also see herself as just like vampire bat, tick, mosquito i.e. a force of nature as well.
As for Carmilla and Laura's relationship...Well let's just when Laura first meets Carmilla, she is in a cognitive dissonance where one part is the side that her family has drilled into her head which causes her to be first icy and skeptical/cautious because she's a vampire but the other part of her, maybe unlike the other Bemonts and other Vampire Hunters employed by the Church are more likely to quickly attack anything supernatural on sight (which to be honest, I don't like the idea that the "Church" and Christianity itself holds a monopoly on morality or defining of what's "good" and "evil" which is also one of the major themes played here), Laura is more open minded which overtime they become friends/allies and maybe lastly lovers.
BTW This is how I imagine Laura and Carmilla's first meeting would be like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqkvFgY-sKk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqkvFgY-sKk)
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double post
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double post
What was the reason of this? Are you that newb?
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What was the reason of this? Are you that newb?
It was a mistake I did while I was editing my posts which I mistakenly hit the "Quote" button instead of the modify which I thought I did.
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BTW This is how I imagine Laura and Carmilla's first meeting would be like:
That would be interesting.
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IIRC the novel implies that Mircalla was just another anagram/alias. You could probably rearrange it a third time and get away with it.
This sounds nifty, though. Gonna have to stay posted on this one.
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IIRC the novel implies that Mircalla was just another anagram/alias. You could probably rearrange it a third time and get away with it.
This sounds nifty, though. Gonna have to stay posted on this one.
Hmmm....very interesting, I guess we could easily make Carmilla a Von Viltheim then (if the creator of the Lecarde chronicles is okay with it somehow...).
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I'm currently working with Mig on another project, I'll ask him for you.
Hell, you could even throw in a Vampire Hunter D reference and call her Larmica. Plenty of ways to go about this.
I'd recommend reading the actual novel Carmilla if you haven't before.It's not that the game concept requires it, but it could certainly give you more reference material, resource concepts, and ideas in general about where to take the project. Plus it's a really good read.
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I messaged this guy the other day and said the same thing dracula9.
I think I'll check that book out myself. :-)
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You can read the book online at Mr' Ps. Castlevania realm. That where I found it last time.
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I would argue that this is one of those books best experienced in paper form. We're talking about a story which brought new ideas and thoughts on the vampire mythos twenty-six years before Stoker essentially landslided the genre. That it's fallen into obscurity by comparison is a shame, moreso when there are some heavy similarities between Dracula and Carmilla that Stoker gets more credit for (not to bash him or his work, of course).
It's worth getting a physical copy of, IMO. I've got a nice one I've never regretted buying.
Now if only I could get my hands on an original publication of the issue of The Dark Blue it first appeared in...
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IIRC the novel implies that Mircalla was just another anagram/alias. You could probably rearrange it a third time and get away with it.
This sounds nifty, though. Gonna have to stay posted on this one.
Carmilla and Millarca are the anagrams. Her real name is Mircalla Karnstein.
Also, the novel doesn't imply it so much as tell you outright.
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Ah. It's been a few years since last I read it, so my memory of details is admittedly a bit hazy. Thanks for clarifying.
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Perhaps I have another story idea which this one is inspired from Skyrim's Dawnguard DLC...
Maybe perhaps Carmilla was actually hidden away in a blood soaked crypt by her mother to protect her from Dracula to "sacrifice" her to resurrect a Powerful Ancient Vampire or Demon, or directly from Skyrim, create a "Eternal Night" for Vampires and Dracula's minions to come out freely since Carmilla is a pure blooded vampire, which Laura finds Carmilla's tomb via the help of one of her projections and frees her....
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Dracula and Carmilla have never seen eye to eye, especially in Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust. This idea of your could work as a game. You talked about having a Belmont and Carmilla team up in another of your ideas so why not? In order for Carmilla to kill Dracula she needs to enlist the aid of a Belmont. This where your other idea of Laura being a Belmont could also come into play. Carmilla is a powerful Vampire in her own right, but she's nothing like Dracula. He became a powerful Vampire/sorcerer through his own will alone in Bram Stoker's Dracula (excluding the LoI game story elements of course). And of course Dracula sees Carmilla as a threat to other vampires as well considering her perverse nature of playing and feeding upon women rather then men.
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And of course Dracula sees Carmilla as a threat to other vampires as well considering her perverse nature of playing and feeding upon women rather then men.
Actually I have in reverse, what if other Vampires see Dracula not only as a threat but also fear him since I think there should be factions of Vampires who oppose Dracula because they see that his arrogance and hatred towards humans over some petty reason (a death of a woman) and his ultimate plans (something to do with "eternal darkness" or something) might ultimately threaten the rest of their kind with humans raging a genocidal war against them and they prefer sticking to the shadows and Dracula might threaten that balance...(since I think Dracula isn't the first vampire and I think there should be vampires that are much older than him....)
and Carmilla might be one among of those Vampires and also as for her feeding habits, I think I would rather make her actual lesbian who is 'sexually promiscuous' who mostly prefers the blood of women especially during sex (even though she drinks their blood, she doesn't actually kill them and lets them live, not to mention I think her bites doesn't turn them into vampires since if I'm getting Castlevania vampire lore right, I think there's a reason why she's "sexually promiscuous" because three bites turn one into a vampire and she doesn't want to feed on the same 'lover' which she moves on to the next one...until she finds Laura who she feels compelled to turn her into a vampire because of her strength and fighting abilities but the only problem remains is the cognitive dissonance that Laura has towards Carmilla which one part of her is how the "Church holds power over mortals" such as being told that "Vampires are evil" and the other is her open mindess telling her otherwise that some Vampires might be decent people after all...) while she feeds on equally (both women and men alike) during combat.
I think I could take creative liberties here and as well try to make Carmilla a very likable protagonist character as possible as contrast to Dracula.
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Dracula and Carmilla have never seen eye to eye, especially in Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust.
In fairness, Bloodlust is loosely based on Demon Deathchase, and doesn't represent their in-novel relationship as well. I don't think, anyway.
But even so, I do like the sentiment in your post. I think that would be an interesting parallel. We've seen in CotM that Carmilla is willing to work with Dracula, but I think it'd be a cool take if Carmilla either worked with Dracula waiting for the opportune moment to usurp his power, or to work with the protagonists against him and become the antagonist once he's beaten.
since I think Dracula isn't the first vampire and I think there should be vampires that are much older than him
I like that idea. Depending on whether you go by the Castlevania or Stoker mythos, Dracula can either be the Dark Lord or just a greater vampire. Stoker's take on him, I think, paints him as a powerful vampire with considerable wit and influence, but isn't exactly THE vampire or by any means the oldest or strongest. It's never really detailed in Castlevania whether or not he's the original, only that he's the strongest due to his black magic and age (since vampires almost universally get stronger as time goes on).
I think your take is a very unique one. All too often Dracula as a character is portrayed as THE bigbad, or one of the biggest fish period. The idea of lesser vampires plotting a coup de'tat to preserve their own status quo is one I can definitely get behind.
As for the Castlevania's lore on turning a human, I don't remember if it's ever actually specified. There are some lores that go by a certain number of bites, some by where the human's bitten, etc. I'm partial to the Hellsing/Anne Rice mythos in which the human must have all of their blood drained, and then drink the blood of a vampire to turn, and have a cycle of full-blood transfusions before the turning is complete. In this way, the human's blood is cycled through the vampire multiple times until it becomes vampiric, and then the human is "refilled" with vampiric blood. Whether or not the human chose to be turned or willingly offered their blood to the vampire(s) in question can also play a part.
I think a certain catboy said it best:
"Blood is the currency of the soul, the vehicle of life. Having blood offered...is a very different experience than taking it."
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But even so, I do like the sentiment in your post. I think that would be an interesting parallel. We've seen in CotM that Carmilla is willing to work with Dracula, but I think it'd be a cool take if Carmilla either worked with Dracula waiting for the opportune moment to usurp his power, or to work with the protagonists against him and become the antagonist once he's beaten
Well actually I've originally intended to have a different Carmilla than in the games, well I could say that maybe it's possible that Carmilla is humoring Dracula the whole time until the right opportunity to strike but actually I've also originally intended to have Carmilla as THE protagonist however since I find your latter suggestion about "Protaognist at first but turning antagonist" seems at least cliche and overused so many times which I think I could have different ideas to play unto this while keeping Carmilla as the primary protagonist and Laura secondary...
I think after defeating Dracula, Laura is almost dying from battle from heavy wounds Carmilla then saves her life by turning her into a vampire like herself (by Laura's request) and maybe they come into agreement that maybe perhaps it's best if they becomes the "Dark Ladies" or the new lords of the castle and have her and Laura 'rule the night' (although not as arrogant and tyrannical Dracula was) by her side to keep Dracula at bay which then ends with Carmilla and Laura sitting side by side each other in their own thrones but then...Laura's Father and his gang comes in....which triggers another boss battle which if there's two endings, if Carmilla and Laura die, and then whole cycle repeats itself with the prospect of Dracula coming back to power, but if Carmilla and Laura win, they prolong him at bay....
As for turning Vampires...I think it maybe best if a Vampire completely drains the victim and then drops their own blood into them and becomes a new vampire.
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Then Varney shows up and throws them both into Mt. Vesuvius!
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Then Varney shows up and throws them both into Mt. Vesuvius!
Heh...I also always wondered how Varney, Lord Ruthven, and Clarimonde would fit into Castlevania....
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You know maybe perhaps there should be a another perspective amoung the Vampires which perhaps why not portray the Belmonts, the Church, etc as antagonists while Vampires as protagonists? Although Vampires (like in VTM) may have some politicking around though like the Von Viltheim's and other Vampire clans might oppose Dracula for their own reasons but doesn't mean they ally with what the series considers "the heroes" like the Belmonts, the Church and such and plus LeCarde just destroyed Katherina's castle out of "Van Helsing Hate Crime" rather than observing Katherina's own reasons for example that I'm using. Or Dracula himself has a "Fallen Hero" complex who sees himself who has "good intentions" if not he's a Well-Intentioned Extremist who wants to alter the world for his own ends while other Vampires simply want to be left alone (probably like the Von Viltheim's perhaps possibly...) so some can have their own private 'rulership' of the night while Dracula wants the whole world fall into his dominion which other Vampires might see that as a threat to their existence.
Hmmm....
If the makers of the LeCarde Chronicles would ever consider the possibility of portraying Katherina in a 'positive light' (from a Vampire perspective than a human's perspective) even when a Vampire especially what if she's the mother of Carmilla...