Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => Fan Stuff => Topic started by: BMC_War Machine on June 12, 2015, 03:46:41 PM
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Hey folks, as most of you know I have been working on Castlevania Chronicles - Dracula's Curse for some time now. Its in its beta stages now, and recently I have been getting into 3D modeling/animation. Which got me thinking; wouldnt it be badass to release a 2.5D version instead?! Given that, and by seeing a large outcry for a 2.5D remake online, what would you folks like to see more, a 2D or 2.5D remake? Keep in mind, if I make a 2.5D version its going to take quite a while to do it all, since ill be doing all the artwork. Or would you all rather see the 2D version get completed?
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I suppose the question for the 2.5D version would be: Is it going to be feasible?
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Finish your game first, then think about doing a 2.5D later.
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For me personally, I'd much rather have nice looking 2D sprites than the generic and muddy 3D graphics we seem to get on most 2.5D remakes these days.
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I say finish your game first as well. Better to avoid a possible slippery slope. Once you've completed your current project and have everything finalized (bugs worked out too ;)) then you can try your hand at a 2.5D version. You can think of it this way too. While working on your current game it will give you time to improve on 3D modeling. Then when you're ready, you'll have something good to work with.
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Castlevania should stay 2d pure and simple. I think your Castlevania game looks great in 2d. Graphics is just beautiful. We don't need some extra blocky 3d objects and scenery. Besides I don't think we want to wait another year for a finished game. Please just finish the game in 2d. If you really want it to be 2.5d then do it after you finish 2d version.
Best regards.
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Personally, I'm pretty excited about the 2.5D aspect; when done correctly, 3D models can be just as aesthetically impressive as the most intricate 2D artwork.
All in all, it's a matter of preference; but if you're willing to invest enough time into 3D modelling to make 2.5D a reality, then by all means go for it.
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I recommend finishing your current project first, since it has been in development so long. And secondly, if you are not using an engine made for 3d this would be a bad idea. I think we spoke about Fusion a while back but it isn't built for anything 3d/2.5d. You would have better results with Unity or Unreal 4. But in the meantime, finish your game!
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Finish your game. It's been years!
After that makes Castlevania Chronicles 2.5: Simon's Quest... Like that play on the name?
Yeah.
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I am curious about something. If you were to make game using all 3D assets, what tool would you be using to create the game? I'm pretty sure you use Fusion 2.5, but I'm not familiar with any 3D support it may / may not have.
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Sounds like 2D it is lol. I just thought about bringing it up considering im getting pretty good at 3D animation finally lol.
@Belmontoya
yeah I know lmao, its just about ready for another beta release :) and cool idea for the simons quest lol. Hell it would be cool to make the trilogy in 2.5D.
As for the concerns regarding the graphics, im using Zbrush to make the landscapes and they looks great in game! So no worries of cheesy looking 2.5D lol
@ ProjectDread - yeah dude im using CTF 2.5. Ive rendered my 3D stuff from a side view and set it up in CTF and it looks badass, its in full HD as well. The trick to make it look and feel more like 2.5D lies in Zbrush. When I render an asset, I put it at a slight angle to give it that depth of field and so far its turned out great!
So with that folks, im off to finishing up the polishing of cv3 in 2D :)
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So it's prerendered sprites instead of 3d meshes?
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What i was playing with was taking Genesis from DAZ3D and exporting to Zbrush to customize him, then set a side camera in DAZ to make the animations. I made a startup file with the camera preset to where it needs to be for it turn out good in DAZ, as well as staying at the same resolution. As for the backgrounds they are 3D mesh but i angle them a bit and render them as pictures, then just drop them in the frame in MMF.
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Gotcha. That is some of what I do in Daz for Anathema. I have a preset light and camera template that I created and use for maximum consistency.
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We can always go the doom route using 3d maps, Voxels for objects and 2d sprites
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You should post some screenshots or videos about how the 3D rendered graphics look in-game.
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Here ya go dude:
http://www.mediafire.com/watch/t4efmpfa9j3e9ww/Super_C_proof_of_concept_in_CTF2.5.avi (http://www.mediafire.com/watch/t4efmpfa9j3e9ww/Super_C_proof_of_concept_in_CTF2.5.avi)
The end is shitty looking because that's where i stopped - the ramps are chopped up lol. But this only took me less than 10 minutes to get the ground made up and put in MMF. Notice also that one of Bill's boots looks like it stretches, that's something i'll have to fix on the render, but this could very well be done in mmf. Granted, right now there are several little things - muzzle flash goes a little crazy, bullets sometimes, but this is more or less just showing that it can be done and look good, so pay no mind to the coding as of now lol.
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I just played the dracula x remake on psp in 2.5d and I think it sucked balls. 2d is the only time castlevania has been castlevania as far as I am concerned. So far every attempt to take a castlevania game beyond 2d has been disappointing even the ones that were still somewhat fun. It just doesn't feel like a castlevania game once the graphics are no longer flat. Even if the angle remains locked so the view is the same as it is in 2d the game handles differently and no longer has the same feel to it. I mean people even complained about the use of mode 7 in scv4 so I would consider what a change in graphics will do to the overall reception of the game.
If you really want to do this in a way that might succeed there are a couple things you could consider. Games on the snes by rare used a 3d model to produce 2d sprites by using the model like a clay animation and took snapshots of the model posed for each frame of the sprite animation. That might work and even look really amazing without the game being a 3d environment with a locked camera on it which I think is where the game begins to lose it's feel. In a 2.5d game the 3d models have to much freedom to float about if that makes sense. Unlike a 2d set of sprites with individual set frames to each animation that play out predictably in order every time the 3d model can move around more freely making it feel much different.
The other option you could consider is doing a high res remake of the current sprites. I am way more interested in a good HD upgrade of the existing sprites for a castlevania game than I am anything else that has been done. You keep the feel of the original because the frames are the same and play out with the same predictable pattern but the visuals are now crisp and detailed and not chunky and pixelated. I love sprites don't get me wrong but high detail smooth graphics are also amazing and the game handles exactly the same either way so it retains the feel. Anyhow I doubt this is the direction you want to go in since you were initially thinking 2.5d but this is another option that isn't really being explored. When I think of high detail 2d I think of a more hand drawn style of remake but this doesn;t even have to be the case you could also use vector graphics to create really sharp graphics while still remaining 2d and an example of that would be stuff like steamworld dig or maybe the HD spelunky I think both of those used vector graphics as a base to create the sprites used which also has a psuedo 3dish effect due to shading with gradients and lighting in the engine. Just keep in mind though that the sprites in those games are not whole graphics for each frame they use individual pieces like a puppet. The arms legs torso head etc are all individual pieces created as vector art and then rotated and manipulated around to create the frames of animation. It adds a lot of smoothing to the animation without feeling as loose and floaty as a 3d model would.
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Keep it 2D unless you want to utilize the 3D on Klonoa levels of awesome, shifting angles, winding stairways, and other such could gave a stage more depth rather than flat, but this requires a good deal of effort and some out of the box thinking to make it work
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Here's my opinion on the matter. This goes for Anathema too:
Keep the 2.5D for the backgrounds. Create your tilesets and scenarios with a 3D program, BUT when inserting them into the game, use a color-reduction tool with a fixed palette of vibrant colors to make them blend nicely with the sprites.
I'm fairly certain that this is what Konami did on the DSvanias, because the color count on those backgrounds is CRAZY high to be done purely by pixel-art. Not only that, but I can spot numerous instances of automatic anti-aliasing and numeous others of automatic shading, slightly corrected with traditional pixel-art.
Keep the enemies and characters in pixels only.