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The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => Hardcore Gaming 101 => Topic started by: Highwind Dragoon on September 14, 2017, 01:00:33 PM

Title: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: Highwind Dragoon on September 14, 2017, 01:00:33 PM
https://youtu.be/UhOx-FpEAQk

I already have it pre-installed, just have to get the update at midnight to play it.

Are you getting it?
Title: Re: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: Jazz Paladin Productions on September 15, 2017, 08:00:09 AM
No. Played the original when it came out, and am ok leaving it with that.

I'd be a little more receptive with traditional sprites, to tell the truth. As in with the SoM remake, I am so sick of ugly low-res 2.5 remakes, games from this era lose a bit of their soul for me when they undergo this type of conversion.
Title: Re: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: X on September 15, 2017, 09:56:50 AM
Quote
I'd be a little more receptive with traditional sprites, to tell the truth. As in with the SoM remake, I am so sick of ugly low-res 2.5 remakes, games from this era lose a bit of their soul for me when they undergo this type of conversion.

I can agree with this too. Plus it is being handled by Mercurysteam so that kinda has me worried there as well. I'll be watching play-throughs before I make any rash decisions about buying this title. And it looks like Nintendo is still forking over their use of Metroid: OM's Samus rather then the traditional heroine we all know and love.
Title: Re: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: theANdROId on September 15, 2017, 06:45:24 PM
My wife pre-ordered this for me for my birthday.  I just have to wait until then to receive it an play it.

I only know because this is one of the few instances where it was a title I *really* wanted, and I didn't want to chance it selling out for awhile and not getting it.  I guess because it was part of my family's rules growing up, I'm still supposed adhere to the rule of not buying myself presents within a month of my birthday. :-/  (This really came about mostly because of my dad who wants very little, and when you finally find something he wants or likes, he just buys it himself and you are out of ideas.)  I think it's silly, not only because it was more for my dad, but also because there's always something video game related that I would want, plus other stuff in general.  Anyway, I at least have it.  I kinda hope it's the collector's edition, but I can't imagine my wife spending an extra $10 on that. :-P
Title: Re: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: zangetsu468 on September 15, 2017, 11:52:49 PM
I was initially worried due to MoF sucking goat balls. But this has taken my interest and I've pre-ordered a physical copy. It will be the last 3ds game I buy, probably also the last portable game/ console with the exemption of the Switch.
Title: Re: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: Eric Roman on September 16, 2017, 11:01:12 AM
They kiiinda pulled a Lords of Shadow/EVA 2.0/Star Trek [2009]/Maverick Hunter X on Metroid II!  Cute, but I'd prefer SotN-quality 2D.   
Title: Re: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: knightmere on September 18, 2017, 07:10:44 AM
This game is actually pretty good and I fucking hated the lords of shadow sub series.
Title: Re: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: PFG9000 on September 18, 2017, 01:34:12 PM
I assumed it would come nowhere close to AM2R, but I'm surprised to say it's actually not too far behind.  I'm only maybe 30% through the game, but I've been pretty happy with it so far.  I'm a little let down by the music.  I'd prefer more melodic and original tunes, but the music is pretty atmospheric, so I can tolerate it.  I'd also like to see more variation in the area themes.  So far prettymuch every area looks the same.

I would prefer 2D sprites too.  When I saw the previews, I thought the graphics were ugly.  But it looks quite good on the 3DS.  I also picked up the new Samus-edition 3DS, which is my first "New 3DS," and I really like it.  The 3D is so much better now that you don't have to keep your head in the sweet spot the whole time, and it's nice to get some SNES games on it.  Though my DS could emulate the SNES years ago, so I don't know why the original 3DS couldn't support SNES games in the Virtual Console shop.
Title: Re: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: Batandy on September 19, 2017, 02:48:52 AM
Quote from: X on September 15, 2017, 09:56:50 AM
I can agree with this too. Plus it is being handled by Mercurysteam so that kinda has me worried there as well. I'll be watching play-throughs before I make any rash decisions about buying this title. And it looks like Nintendo is still forking over their use of Metroid: OM's Samus rather then the traditional heroine we all know and love.

This is not true, they totally dropped Samus' design from that game (except for the zero suit's heels, ugh), she's back to her valkyrie-like height and body shape seen in Super Metroid.
(https://i.redditmedia.com/1nQfdRLjcXNSMHBb41i8yhAsStO8hIJV_7hdz9w4GLA.jpg?w=800&s=de3ce34881027da1226867c753366c0c)
The power suit is also bulkier and makes the OM suit look like an action figure.


I'm really satisfied with this game, i wasn't too impressed with the graphics in the trailer, but they are actually quite good when seen on an actual 3DS, the 3D effect is also really good (which is really unexpected considering that most of the 3DS games dropped it at this point).
The gameplay is very similiar to the other Metroid games, but it's also really unusual because enemies are way more aggressive and deal more damage than expected. You get more missiles compared to other Metroid games, but they are less effective on common enemies. Melee counter feels good, and it's actually quite challenging to get it right, especially later on when there are multiple enemies attacking you. The only thing i don't like is the wall jump, which feels more like an auto-jump and it's stiff compared to Zero Mission's.
Map layout is great, it's not as linear as Zero Mission or Fusion, but it's not completely open like Super Metroid. You've got these big areas where you must kill all the Metroids, and you can't go to the next area until you get all the Metroid DNA from the area you're currently in, it's really easy to get lost not know where to go, even with the map scanning ability or the Chozo gate showing on the map the next metroid you should go kill (both of these are optional).
I understand that you might have some doubts about Mercysteam because of their 2d Castlevania, but trust me, they made a real masterpiece this time, it's the Metroid game the fans really needed after all these years of nothing.
Title: Re: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: X on September 19, 2017, 10:48:02 AM
Now THAT looks more like the Samus we know and love! Although she could use a just a little more muscle definition on her arms, but her legs look good though.

Quote
I understand that you might have some doubts about Mercysteam because of their 2d Castlevania, but trust me, they made a real masterpiece this time, it's the Metroid game the fans really needed after all these years of nothing.

I never did play MoF or LoS2, I only ever tried the first game and was seriously let down by it. Mercurysteam has a a lot to make up for it, but so far that is looking to be possible. So long as they don't stray from the path as they did with Castlevania.
Title: Re: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: Highwind Dragoon on September 19, 2017, 09:05:00 PM
I encountered a glitch in area 3 that allowed me to bypass power bomb blocks and trapped me in.

....And I made good progress, too!  >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: X on September 19, 2017, 11:26:07 PM
Ouch. Guess the testers missed that one  :-\
Title: Re: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: Highwind Dragoon on September 20, 2017, 06:39:06 AM
Yeah, it happened when I was using spider ball and used several bombs on the spot.

Rolled right between the block and the wall.
Title: Re: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on September 20, 2017, 06:15:26 PM
So this game is FUCKING GREAT.
It's got the right amount of challenge and it's also got that "Just a little further... just ONE more room!" kinda thing!
They've got good enemy placement where you won't get too far before you get punished for it.  In addition, they've added those "SLIME WALLS" that stop the Spiderball/walljump (smart).

I am having a blast with this so far.  I'm on Area 3 or 4. Haven't looked.  Too entranced.

Some little qualms but super super little:
-The rehashing of stuff from other games (the Super Metroid death stuff, the sound effects from the SNES stuff, Lower Norfair/Magmoor Caverns music for 'Hot Zones').  It's OK, but it didn't need to be so close to Super Metroid/Prime stuff.  I mean, it's not 'exactly' the same, but it's similar enough where I wish it could've been slightly different.
-Timing is super-perfect for some spots, where I get mad at not having D-PAD control.  I get to a spot before the block regenerates but Ohhhh no I'm slightly behind due to controller issues.  I mean, it's OK, but it reminds me of old Metroid Fusion "you just missed your window" nonsense.  Also, I wish I could use the D-pad to Navigate and the Analog to switch AEION powers.  I want precision control, goddamnit!
-I LOVE COUNTERING.  It's probably the best thing out of this.  In the original, if I got hit by a dash attack I usually just had to 'take it like a man'.  At least in this came I can punish the attack if I see it coming, then BLAMMO take some shots to the face, asshole enemy!

So yeah, game is great.  Totally don't see any lingering Mirror of Fate shenanigans, thankfully. 
Title: Re: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: X on September 20, 2017, 10:34:57 PM
I picked this up earlier today -and yes- I am enjoying it. Nintendo must have been supervising Mercurysteam for this title as they did with Team Ninja in Other M as I'm not seeing their shenanigans either. I also don't like it how I cannot change the control layout. I want to use the D-Pad. This is a 2.5D game so why not? Seeing the remains of the former task force of the Galactic Federation laying about gives the original story a bit more element here then what wasn't in the original game. Although I don't know why they were members of the police when they should have been military (the special corps as Super Metroid had put it). Unless of course they are one and the same. I haven't gotten very far however I am looking forward to more playtime after I finish this up  :)
Title: Re: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: RichterB on September 21, 2017, 05:19:53 PM
What are we talking about here? Is this another nostalgia-driven "Super Metroid Revisited"? I have no doubt from what I've seen that this is a competent and solid game, but is it basically the Zero Mission (Metroid 1 + Super Metroid) of Metroid II? That's the overall impression I've been getting. I mean, it's great to have a new Metroid like this in many ways, but from afar, it feels like it sits in such a middle ground that it's basically fun but forgettable. I just feel the franchise should be beyond this kind of thing by now, so I'm torn.

What's weird is that Metroid and now Metroid II have gotten their identities altered to fit better with the mold of Super Metroid...but conversely, it means that Super Metroid's mix of abilities, areas, music, etc. is becoming diluted. The individual entries are losing their individuality and sense of progression; previously, each game had its own take on things that widened the definition of a Metroid game. And while this happens, the series just stagnates.

Metroid Fusion was the last time they tried to move the series forward...with iffy results in my mind, but at least they went for it. In many ways the Prime sub-series struggles with the ghost of Super Metroid, too. It seems like the whole franchise hinges on Super Metroid and Metroid Prime 1, and I'd love to see it be able to make its next big statement. (I don't believe Metroid Prime 4 will be that game, either. It's going to come down to what happens with Metroid 5.)
Title: Re: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: X on September 21, 2017, 05:34:48 PM
RichterB@

I do agree with this as well. Dispite having fun with the game there is the feeling of Prime here and there, and the reuse of elements from Super Metroid is also noticeable. Nintendo might be a little afraid of moving the series forward after the backlash with Other M, but who knows.
Title: Re: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on September 21, 2017, 06:16:07 PM
I don't know who keeps telling Nintendo that it's nice to lock the controls down.
I absolutely --HATE-- using the Analog Stick to move, when there's a perfect D-pad for me to use below it, but noooooo that's the Power-Switcher.  How about let me use the analog for that and the Dpad for precision control, like Metroid has always had?

I'm sick of areas where I need to quickly turn around and/or/aim/morphball only for the game to decide due to the analog input, that I want to crouch or some other nonsense.
Title: Re: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: knightmere on September 21, 2017, 09:39:31 PM
Not sure if you are aware but you can also tap the touch screen to go into morph ball instantly. Maybe they can Dpad control in a future update?
Title: Re: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: PFG9000 on September 21, 2017, 10:42:09 PM
I haven't had as many issues with the analog stick as I thought I would.  But I'd go for D-Pad controls in a heartbeat if they were offered.  Some of the puzzle rooms where speed is important get obnoxious with the analog stick.

I'm quite a bit further in now -
(click to show/hide)
  I still have positive thoughts overall about Samus Returns, but I'm really getting annoyed by the convoluted level designs.  The level layouts feel more like a fan hack than an official title, like they're as complicated as possible with no regard for believable world-building.  Also, I feel like the character progression is pretty uneven, like I'll go for long stretches with no upgrades, and then I'll get a bunch within a minute or two.  But that might just be my impression because I've been backtracking quite regularly trying to access previously missed items.

The game is obviously HUGE.  It seems like one or two areas in Samus Returns are the size of the entire original Metroid 2.

I'm annoyed by the repetition of older Metroid BGMs too.  Would it have killed Mercury Steam to come up with some new music instead of rehashing the same themes we've heard in so many other Metroid games?  It's like they went the completely opposite direction from the Lords of Shadow OSTs.  Instead of totally ignoring the source material, now they're afraid to stray from it.
Title: Re: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: Aridale on September 22, 2017, 02:34:21 PM
I havent played much of it but so far I like it. What I wanna know is... why the FUCK isnt it on the goddamn Switch!??!?!?! Stupid fuckin Nintendo!!
Title: Re: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: X on September 22, 2017, 10:45:52 PM
Well... I just had a rage-quite moment.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: knightmere on September 23, 2017, 08:10:10 AM
Quote from: X on September 22, 2017, 10:45:52 PM
Well... I just had a rage-quite moment.

(click to show/hide)

That sequence is not that much different from the SA-X chase scenes in Fusion which I believe is what they are going for.
Title: Re: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: X on September 23, 2017, 11:03:14 AM
I remember the SA-X chase and it is not the quite the same. There was only SA-X and no auto-screen movement to catch/kill you. That and you could stall the SA-X with your charged ice beam or ice missiles. No such thing here. It's a death gauntlet that you can't mess up or you start over again. Having to tap the screen to equip the necessary items in order to get through the gauntlet -while going through it- is a recipe for disaster. I've done similar gauntlets in other games, but I wasn't juggling with the stylus in order to equip what I need while trying to control Samus to keep ahead of the grinder. It is ridiculous.
Title: Re: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: zangetsu468 on September 23, 2017, 06:47:40 PM
I seriously don't know why people are complaining that the game is taking visual and audio cues from other Metroid games like it's gaming blasphemy. Zelda ALBW basically ripped the overworld from ALTTP, and it ripped music from OOT, and it's a Nintendo game! But you don't hear that getting slammed. Not that I think either are bad games (Metroid SR isn't thus far).

The only gripes I have are the dpad not being useable, and the game would've looked much better with a higher framerate, but it still looks decent. 
Title: Re: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: X on September 23, 2017, 10:08:15 PM
Quote
But you don't hear that getting slammed.

That's cause we already slammed it, lol.
Title: Re: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: knightmere on September 24, 2017, 07:28:17 AM
I thought the music in this game was good. I especially like the ambient remixes of the original metroid 2 tracks.
Title: Re: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: X on September 24, 2017, 11:39:23 AM
Quote
I especially like the ambient remixes of the original metroid 2 tracks.

I noticed this as well. Much of Metroid II was very little music except for maybe three tracks, Metroid larva track, the game ending track, the Metroid fighting sequence, and the Metroid Queen fight, while the rest was digital blips and such. It's nice to hear that they were kept intact and enhanced rather then replaced outright.
Title: Re: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: RichterB on September 24, 2017, 08:09:11 PM
Quote from: X on September 20, 2017, 10:34:57 PM
I picked this up earlier today -and yes- I am enjoying it. Nintendo must have been supervising Mercurysteam for this title as they did with Team Ninja in Other M as I'm not seeing their shenanigans either.

You know, Other M was the experiment that Metroid needed after the Prime series had been explored for four games (counting the DS entry). The initial trailer hyped me so much to see a 3rd-person 3D Metroid. It wasn't a flat-out success, but the overstated narrative issues and the lack of sales have buried the fact that it started to explore how to handle 3D Metroid beyond Prime. It will likely never happen, but I would love for Prime 4 to take a look at what was done and try to create a better hybrid experience; either that, or a future 3D Metroid project (Metroid 5...6?). My two biggest issues with Other M, which I had a lot of fun with, was 1.) that it was a little too insecure in the way it handled the mixture of 1st-person, 3rd-person, and over-the-shoulder perspectives. (I'd love to see it have a camera system like Breath of the Wild.) And 2.) it kept the same problem as most recent Metroid games in that it relied on the series' laurels, this time being a pseudo-remake of Metroid Fusion, and being too linear as a result. That actually bothered me more than anything else in the game. Samus almost always had a sensitive side (since Metroid 2's ending) and a reflective side (Super Metroid and ESPECIALLY Metroid Fusion). It may not have been handled gracefully in Other M, but it didn't deserve to be the only point of discussion that came from Other M. I'm concerned the lack of acknowledging anything positive from Other M will hold Metroid back into a box of nostalgia. I mean, again, Other M was sort of the "first experiment" to get Metroid's mainline up and running for a modern age (in 3D) in the same way that Samus Returns is a "first experiment" to get Metroid's mainline up and running again (in 2D). Both cover familiar ground with a new, unlikely team in hopes of getting to a major new mainline entry.
Title: Re: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: zangetsu468 on September 25, 2017, 01:52:01 AM
@RichterB
There are some fundamental problems with Other M though. Forget the story elements and narrative, there are a few things inherently wrong with the game which could've been easily solved:

- FPS puzzle sequences, including the final boss fight (notice I didn't lump firing missiles in with either of these); remove entirely
- Slow walking sequences; remove entirely
- "Recharge" ability; remove entirely
- Spammable dodge mechanic; solve by adding a meter which depletes
- Extremely Short Campaign; lengthen the game legitimately
- Poor graphics compared to previous console 3D Metroid games (they were still using billboarding for some of the blast effects); invest more in polishing the game.

These things alone are enough to make me dislike the game as a Metroid game. It strayed too far from the original series imho.

Some redeeming factors imo were:

- Melee elements
- Switching between 3rd and 1st person was interesting
- Generally the game played well

The linearity is a matter of opinion, the issue here with Other M is that everyone wanted a 3D version of a Super Metroid/ Zero Mission, but what we got was a linear 2.75'D Metroid Fusion. (Don't get me wrong, I don't hate fusion, but it's not one of my favourites.)

With Samus Returns I'm about 11 hours in now and as X said, I'm not seeing any bullshit here. I'm surprised the level of challenge is decent and stays pretty true to the original game. The semi-cinematics which occur only during Metroid fights in a moment of "meleeism" are handled well, and it doesn't take away the players viewpoint etc. (so they've taken something from Other M and it's worked). I can see where MS have put in their two cents in certain places (pulling the blocks with the grapple for one is reminiscent of Gabriel in LOS1 wrapping the combat cross around objects and pulling, for example) but it doesn't detract from the experience of being "Metroid". Enjoying it quite a lot thus far. It makes me want to go back and finish the original at some point.
Title: Re: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: RichterB on September 25, 2017, 01:11:53 PM
Quote from: zangetsu468 on September 25, 2017, 01:52:01 AM
@RichterB
There are some fundamental problems with Other M though. Forget the story elements and narrative, there are a few things inherently wrong with the game which could've been easily solved:

- FPS puzzle sequences, including the final boss fight (notice I didn't lump firing missiles in with either of these); remove entirely
- Slow walking sequences; remove entirely
- "Recharge" ability; remove entirely
- Spammable dodge mechanic; solve by adding a meter which depletes
- Extremely Short Campaign; lengthen the game legitimately
- Poor graphics compared to previous console 3D Metroid games (they were still using billboarding for some of the blast effects); invest more in polishing the game.

These things alone are enough to make me dislike the game as a Metroid game. It strayed too far from the original series imho.

Some redeeming factors imo were:

- Melee elements
- Switching between 3rd and 1st person was interesting
- Generally the game played well

The linearity is a matter of opinion, the issue here with Other M is that everyone wanted a 3D version of a Super Metroid/ Zero Mission, but what we got was a linear 2.75'D Metroid Fusion. (Don't get me wrong, I don't hate fusion, but it's not one of my favourites.)

With Samus Returns I'm about 11 hours in now and as X said, I'm not seeing any bullshit here. I'm surprised the level of challenge is decent and stays pretty true to the original game. The semi-cinematics which occur only during Metroid fights in a moment of "meleeism" are handled well, and it doesn't take away the players viewpoint etc. (so they've taken something from Other M and it's worked). I can see where MS have put in their two cents in certain places (pulling the blocks with the grapple for one is reminiscent of Gabriel in LOS1 wrapping the combat cross around objects and pulling, for example) but it doesn't detract from the experience of being "Metroid". Enjoying it quite a lot thus far. It makes me want to go back and finish the original at some point.

Oh, I agree there was a real mix of weird ideas that should be dropped. Some traditional elements were taken away without good reason, much like Zelda: Breath of the Wild.

Those slow-walking sequences/1st-person examination sequences I lumped into "camera experiments." The slow-walking view was potentially interesting if reworked more naturally into the "Click-Stick" action-aiming view from the full-3D Bionic Commando game. I think some of the weirdness came from a desire to make it a sort of narrative-driven detective game; it was trying to be a new genre rather than being Metroid's Ocarina of Time. (One could argue that Prime was its OoT moment, but there's a little bit of difference there, IMO, because OoT didn't turn Zelda into 1st-person dominant, even though it probably could have successfully done so.)

Anyway, my bottom line for Other M was, as you said "generally, the game played well." Prime 1 is my favorite Metroid game after Super Metroid, but even with all of its sequels, it never took full advantage of how Samus could move and interact with her environments because of the 3rd person-dominant perspective. The speed-booster segments of Other M are a great example. As you said, it was sort of "2.75'D Metroid Fusion," but it showed me the potential of 3rd person 3D and that it should be expanded on rather than having all Metroid development retract back to Metroid Prime.

I think I'll enjoy Samus Returns when I get to it, but I don't know if I'll be overly impressed. I've beaten the original, and while it was a product of its time, it had its own unique spin on things that I respect.
Title: Re: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: zangetsu468 on September 25, 2017, 03:45:34 PM
@RichterB Have you played Primes 2/3? They made much better use of Samus' movement particularly with the use of off-the-wall kick jumping and introducing screw attack. In particular Prime 2 did a lot with spider ball,boss-fights and showcased more vertical environments. Not to mention it did the best job imo of giving that original/ Super Metroid feeling of isolation. (Prime 3 was more about interacting with objects and had more linear progression like Prime 1, but kept Samus' abilities from Prime 2.)
Title: Re: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: Jazz Paladin Productions on September 25, 2017, 04:42:38 PM
Prime 2 was pretty slick, much better than some people credit it for being...Amen to the Screw attack and morph ball battles!

I liked the atmosphere of Prime 1, it really did set the stage well...Even though prime 2 was pretty dark and bleak, the controls really improved and I still internally debate whether 1 or 2 was better...

The only thing Prime 3 did for me was to make Wii remote control viable for Prime 1 and 2....which made them even more immersive for me.

Title: Re: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: RichterB on September 25, 2017, 05:28:04 PM
I've played all the Prime games (except Pinball and Federation Force). I've played through Prime 2 two times, once on Gamecube when it came out and once on Wii via the Trilogy. While it was a nice "token" touch, I personally found the Screw Attack stuff to be awkward and forced compared to how it was handled in Other M. Prime 2 did double down on a lot of interesting ideas and mechanics, but the Light/Dark mechanic was way too overbearing (and uninspired) for me. I actually found it overly convoluted by the end. I did like the new suits it afforded Samus, but in terms of areas, I think only the Torvus Bog felt right to me.

Something about Prime 2's overall motif felt...sterile and bland. Prime 3 was too linear at first, but it got better as it went along and had some nice use of the Wiimote. I think I had more fun with it than Prime 2, and it had some interesting puzzles, but I don't remember too much about it. It seemed like it was remixing planet ideas, too, IIRC. I certainly wasn't blown away by it, I know that. I'll probably have to replay the first three again, eventually. What's strange is, while it was limited, I really enjoyed Prime Hunters a good deal--I'm talking the single-player. I felt it used the planet hopping with getting those special keys better in some ways than Prime 3. One thing I do know is I thought the Phazon stuff was overdone, especially by Prime 3. The Dark Samus plot bugged the heck out of me, because we were just coming off the SA-X plot, and to milk that for three games was overkill and uninspired.

Metroid Prime 1 felt the most balanced, but then, I readily admit it relied a lot on Super Metroid. I think the Chozo ruins/jungle and the frozen drifts areas, which were not in Super Metroid in any form, were more exciting than anything new the series did afterward. As for the Spider Ball...it's nice and all, but it's not the Metroid II Spider Ball. It should have been called the Magnetic Ball or something. I don't want another 1st-person-centric Metroid...or, if I have to have one, then I want a game where you can switch between 1st and 3rd person on the fly after that entry in a much more fluid and comprehensive way than what we got in Other M. And to be clear, I'm not saying Prime 2 and/or 3 were bad games, I just felt I'd already gotten enough out of that scan-visor-type FPA formula with Prime 1. Prime 1 was actually set to be 3rd person originally, but the developers had too many troubles dealing with it, so they settled on 1st person. So to me, the work should go on. I mean, we wouldn't want every 3D Zelda to be 1st person, as far as I am aware. (By teasing the elaborate Morph Ball sequences and Screw Attack sections, it's kind of a concession that there is more to be done in the 3rd person.) But I'm pretty sure Metroid Prime 4 is just going to be Metroid Prime, with maybe a bit of the newer Halo games thrown into it. Maybe I'll be surprised.
Title: Re: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: theANdROId on November 21, 2017, 11:43:51 AM
I finally finished Samus Returns, so I came back to read through this topic.  I think I agree with just about everything Jorge had to say.  I was a little worried about how Mercury Steam would handle the game, but I think it was pretty phenomenal and overall a welcome addition to the series.  I absolutely hated being stuck with using the Circle Pad thing for movement though.  The 360 degree aiming was kinda neat (which might be difficult to do when using the d-pad) but I'd sacrifice that for the better/tighter control that the d-pad would offer.  Although I loved the chase and battle with the giant digger when all is said and done, it was these areas especially (and battles with the various metroids) that made me really want the d-pad for control.  I think there were plenty of hits/deaths I could have avoided -- caused by a slip or error resulting in jumping straight up and not at an angle, or turning into the morph ball, or whatever else.

Did anyone feel like damage taken was a bit high for the normal mode?  While I did just say I think I took hits I could have avoided with d-pad control, throughout the whole game it felt like I only took a few hits before nearly being out of energy, even at the end when I had a bunch of E Tanks.

Any thoughts on the story progression as seen in the Chozo memories?
(click to show/hide)

And how about that ending?!
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: BLOOD MONKEY on November 21, 2017, 04:36:11 PM
I played through it and found it to be a fairly mediocre reimagining of what seems to an experience pre-destined to be flawed no matter what you do to it. The new features didn't open any new possibilities for exploration and honestly just slowed down my experience. For what tries to be a streamlined game, it still has too many speed bumps. 6/10.
Title: Re: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: theANdROId on December 02, 2017, 08:54:46 AM
Quote from: Bloo on November 21, 2017, 04:36:11 PM
...what seems to an experience pre-destined to be flawed no matter what you do to it...

Wait, do you mean that about the original setting and story of Metroid 2?  If so, I don't think it's fair to say it's that bad.  The idea of Samus being alone on this planet, wandering around to find and eradicate all of these creepy life-sucking creatures seems like the perfect setting for a Metroid game.

The original Metroid 2 seemed kinda easy though and (at least for me) didn't evoke the feelings that other Metroid games did even though the story seems like it ought to do that really well!  The apprehension I felt when I first made it to Tourian in the NES game; in Tourian and Maridia (and maybe a little in the Wrecked Ship) in Super Metroid; in the Phazon Mines and some of Phendrana Drifts in Prime; in the Dark World in Prime 2; any time the SA-X showed up (especially that chase scene!) in Fusion...I wanted that from Metroid 2 while I hunted the various forms of Metroids, and I think it's fair to say Samus Returns did alright with that.  That's my favorite part of Metroid games!
Title: Re: Metroid: Samus returns
Post by: BLOOD MONKEY on December 02, 2017, 10:52:39 AM
Quote from: theANdROId on December 02, 2017, 08:54:46 AM
Wait, do you mean that about the original setting and story of Metroid 2?  If so, I don't think it's fair to say it's that bad.  The idea of Samus being alone on this planet, wandering around to find and eradicate all of these creepy life-sucking creatures seems like the perfect setting for a Metroid game.
I'm not talking about the idea behind the game, but the game itself. You hunt down 40 bosses, many of which are the same, and
the spider boss
ugh
The whole concept to me seems flawed at his core. There's also the segments with the spiderball, which are still slow and dumb.