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Offline justin312

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Re: I finally actually read the Jap CV3 intro
« Reply #45 on: March 31, 2013, 06:02:29 PM »
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Gawaa-chan,

That's a pretty big leap. Matthias Corvinus and Vlad Tepes were two different people. Not to mention, the CV3 intro also clearly states that Vlad did terrible things (presumably when he was Vlad the Wallachian tyrant, before he became a vampire), but he wasn't satisfied and then started conjuring dark forces in the 15th century.  So even if you make the leap and assume some elaborate identity-switching thing, you're still left with Dracula not assuming his dark power until the 15th century, whereas Matthias Cronquist had already assumed his power hundreds of years before.

Any way you slice it, the Lament plot is very contradictory to the intro of Castlevania III.

Offline Gaawa-chan

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Re: I finally actually read the Jap CV3 intro
« Reply #46 on: March 31, 2013, 07:10:37 PM »
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Gawaa-chan,

That's a pretty big leap. Matthias Corvinus and Vlad Tepes were two different people. Not to mention, the CV3 intro also clearly states that Vlad did terrible things (presumably when he was Vlad the Wallachian tyrant, before he became a vampire), but he wasn't satisfied and then started conjuring dark forces in the 15th century.  So even if you make the leap and assume some elaborate identity-switching thing, you're still left with Dracula not assuming his dark power until the 15th century, whereas Matthias Cronquist had already assumed his power hundreds of years before.

Any way you slice it, the Lament plot is very contradictory to the intro of Castlevania III.

You know what else is a big leap?  Saying that Vlad the Impaler is a vampire at all.  Oh, and he had three sons, not one.  And it's also a rather big leap to make the Bram Stoker novel canon, but they did it.

Ultimately my point is that it isn't impossible that Matthias is Vlad the Impaler.  Alternate universe.  What happens in the Castlevania-verse does not align with ours.  It's silly to try and discount something based upon what has happened irl.

A possible explanation would be to say that Matthias Cronqvist became Matthias Corvinus, and switched places with Vlad III.  So Matthias becomes Vlad becomes Dracula.  But again, my point isn't that this is even remotely the case; it's more that I can easily think of ways that, in the context of the complete AU that is the Castlevania-verse, anything is possible to the point where it's very easy to dream up both very simple and very convoluted explanations for how Mathias got from where he was in LoI to where he was in CV3. Should have spelled it out in my first post, but whatever.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 07:17:27 PM by Gaawa-chan »

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Re: I finally actually read the Jap CV3 intro
« Reply #47 on: April 01, 2013, 12:07:36 AM »
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I'm surprised no one mentioned this before, but if the Pope was specifically looking for a vampire hunter doesn't that imply that Dracula is already a vampire before CV3 begins?

Also, the CV3 story says that CV3 takes place OVER one hundred years before Simon's battle with Dracula. So it doesn't technically contradict Christopher's battle taking place one hundred years before Simon's battle. LoI, however, is definitely a retcon of what was established in CV3.
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Offline Koutei

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Re: I finally actually read the Jap CV3 intro
« Reply #48 on: April 01, 2013, 03:07:16 AM »
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Old-game and IGA's canon isn't the same. In IGA's timeline, refer to IGA's canon. Since Dracula Densetsu and Akumajo Densetsu had inconsistency, IGA remodeled it with his timeline.
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Re: I finally actually read the Jap CV3 intro
« Reply #49 on: April 01, 2013, 03:20:52 AM »
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I really don't think Konami thought the series timeline out ahead of time. That's why all the retconning comes later on.
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Offline Koutei

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Re: I finally actually read the Jap CV3 intro
« Reply #50 on: April 01, 2013, 03:45:42 AM »
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Yep. Before, there was no supervisor.
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Offline Nagumo

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Re: I finally actually read the Jap CV3 intro
« Reply #51 on: April 01, 2013, 03:59:03 AM »
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Regarding Dracula's identity from CV3, they retconned that by saying Mathias eventually took the name Dracula Vlad Tepes. So it still makes sense except the manual text gets reinterpreted a bit.

The manual and the intro also have a few other wacky bits. For example, it seems to sugest Alucard was born human and that he became a dhampir later on. I don't think they came up with a retcon for that one yet. Also, the intro mentioned something about Dracula summoning Dark Gods to increase his strength, right? That's something you think they would ignore but these Dark Gods are actually briefly mentioned in the CoD manga. I thought that was pretty interesting.

CV3 and CVA's manual indeed don't mesh very well with each other. CVA pretty much states Christopher is the first Belmont who confronted Dracula. The way they combined the plots of the two games was very poor IMO. On the other hand CVA ReBirth has much better continuity with CV3, so maybe they wanted to kick out Adventure and replace it with that game? That would fix the issue.

« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 04:01:52 AM by Nagumo »

Offline Lelygax

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Re: I finally actually read the Jap CV3 intro
« Reply #52 on: April 01, 2013, 04:55:01 AM »
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Well, this video that Koutei posted made me really happy since I've never seem Iga in video before, he seems very humble.

About Dark Gods, maybe its a reference to all these Gods that we fight in various games? I mean these enemies and bosses that are Gods from various religions.
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Offline TheouAegis

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Re: I finally actually read the Jap CV3 intro
« Reply #53 on: April 01, 2013, 09:02:48 PM »
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Actually, on the issue brought up of the dark arts and that Matthias Cronqvist was already using them, that's never stated in LoI. If anything, LoI suggests that Matthias was an alchemical neophyte. Everyone was caught off-guard by him, no one suspected he'd be able to harness the power of the Crimson Stone or any of the other stones. So he possessed the stolen power of a slain vampire and was immune to Death's touch. Saying that means he was already versed in the dark arts is like saying a 5-year-old that shoots his 7-year-old sister with a handgun he found in his dad's dresser is a homicidal gunman.

And the idea that Vlad III had his identity stolen isn't that far-fetched. The Dracul and Danesti clans vied for power back and forth, back and forth, and Vlad III was on the throne multiple times, kinda like Grover Clevland (I think that's the president I'm hinting at). Plenty of time for an immortal sorcerer to worm his way in and take over.
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Offline Nagumo

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Re: I finally actually read the Jap CV3 intro
« Reply #54 on: April 02, 2013, 06:03:47 AM »
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Retconning Dracula back into Vlad Tepes would be incredibly convoluted. Better to set up an alternate continuity and firmly establish that he is the historical Vlad Tepes. It's clean and simple. Plus everybody is happy.  :P

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Re: I finally actually read the Jap CV3 intro
« Reply #55 on: April 02, 2013, 07:50:15 AM »
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They dont even need to change anything, Mathias will need a new name if he didnt want to be discovered. Taking the place of the real Vlad Tepes is only a "plus".
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