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Off Topic => Off Topic => Topic started by: beingthehero on October 12, 2011, 08:10:23 AM

Title: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: beingthehero on October 12, 2011, 08:10:23 AM
I was out getting a burger yesterday when I ran into a Finnish guy I know named Peklo Putkimies, whom I thought was a decent enough guy. I asked him to eat with me so we could talk about the coldness. But instead, he just glared at me and said "I know you stole my water hose, and frankly I don't like your kind." There had been a rash of thefts near our village, so I understand his frustration. However, the last bit was very, very uncalled for.

Have you ever been actively discrimated against, and how did you deal with it?
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Gecko on October 12, 2011, 08:36:53 AM
I used to have long hair until recently. Whenever I was driving at night in my hometown, and not even particularly late (around 9PM), I noticed that I would get pulled over all the time without ever speeding. Now of course, police officers like to exaggerate any excuse they may have had to pull you over, so they often said I was speeding by about 10 miles over the limit(lies, I make sure not to speed BECAUSE I don't want them to have an excuse to pull me over). Anyway, the FIRST thing I would often be asked was if I was high because "your eyes look glazed". I'm not into drugs, so obviously, I've never been high while driving. So a little offended, I always would say, "No, my eyes are always dry at night. I don't do drugs." It's a little thing, and I never once got a ticket under these circumstances despite them happening all the time. They just figured a teenage-looking guy with long hair driving around at night had to be up to no good.



Also, I'm a psychology student at my university. I'm currently working on my senior project, which is to put together and perform a psychological study. Well as I was waiting in the psychology office to meet with my adviser, a girl who was just starting to put her experiment together was asking about gender differences without ever consulting any actual studies.  :rollseyes: Anyway, she was asking questions about what men and women look for in relationships. I think you can all see where this is going.

She said that she thinks that women just want someone nice, and men are "looking for the whole package". Now I'm not 100% sure what she meant by "whole package", but she motioned at her body, seeming to imply that men were absolutely all about the T & A and nothing else. So feeling a little offended, and being the smartass I like to be in situations like this, I responded, "Yeah, girls just want a nice guy. A nice guy who will take them to a nice resturaunt and buy them a nice meal using a nice amount of cash which lets the woman know how secure they will be if they stay near him and his nice cash. I've actually seen the studies, and they show that women rank a man's salary higher on the scale of who they would like to marry than men do. Men ranked love higher than women did in the same study. Look it up, then talk." She shut up after that.  ;D
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on October 12, 2011, 08:37:14 AM
Wait, don't we know a guy named Peklo?

I'm a Hispanic person living in the USA.  I got my green card, visa, and was summoned to the USA by my parents over 20 years ago, and quickly got my citizenship as well.  Thankfully the area of the USA in which I live has great acceptance of hispanics, so I do not actually get prejudiced against very often.  Sure, there's a joke every once in a while, but I also dish them out, and they're usually with my closest friends, so I know it's all in good fun.

Having said that, there are some topics which can be hurtful:
-Assuming I'm illegally in the USA.
-thinking I'm in a gang (even though my attire and manner of speaking clearly say otherwise)
-assuming I have four kids at home (I have no children).
-talking to me slowly as if I did not comprehend the English Language.

Thankfully these have not happened in quite some time, so that's quite a relief.
I use comedy to make the situation more light-hearted.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: crisis on October 12, 2011, 08:50:41 AM
Quote
Wait, don't we know a guy named Peklo?

It seems Peklo has a lot of fans at the Chapel.


But me? I haven't got prejudiced against in a while (the way I used to dress) so it's a non-issue for me. But if it happens nowadays I'll either A. Laugh it off, or B. Punch them in the face. Cuz if you hurt someone, they'll leave you alone! :)
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Opium on October 12, 2011, 09:06:53 AM
Some of us belong to groups that are pretty much hated by all of society, so we experience discrimination every single day.  We have no choice but to live with it.  What are we supposed to do, kill ourselves?
At the end of the day, most people are not more advanced than shaved monkeys and will throw their feces in a fear response to anything that they don't fully understand.  It doesn't matter what people are bigoted against, they all give the same reasons for their bigotry and it's always a list of things that are totally not true.  You can tell them over and over that those things are not true, but because of the social constructs which keep them feeling safe they cannot open their mind for even one second, so in essence they are 'willfully ignorant', which is the worst kind because it will never go away.
Just surround yourself with like-minded people and ignore the rest.  Life is too short.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: PFG9000 on October 12, 2011, 09:31:45 AM
Now of course, police officers like to exaggerate any excuse they may have had to pull you over

Well lookie here, I've just been prejudiced against.   :D
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on October 12, 2011, 09:41:46 AM
Ha ha, Irony! That just generated a healthy chuckle out of me.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Vampire Killer on October 12, 2011, 10:46:58 AM
I'm a WASP.






Life is good :D
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: X on October 12, 2011, 11:14:52 AM
Many people during my school years were prejudiced against me due to my last name, thinking it described my sexual orientation precisely. Pfft! Whatever scum suckers :P I can't even begin to tell you how many times I imagined torturing them for hours on end just to satisfy my own internal rage. From Elementary all the way through High school, it was like that for me. Those unevolved pricks just couldn't get it through their heads that they were full of their own egos (which is what I consider to possibly be the worst drug known to man). It's been over ten years since school and so far I have not dealt with any more of that s**t. But the people I do work with sometimes get similar treatment and it opens up those old wounds all over again.  >:(
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: crisis on October 12, 2011, 11:21:07 AM
That's why you have to punch them in the face, X.

Oh you're a pacifist? Then pass your fist through their face ;)
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Mooning Freddy on October 12, 2011, 11:26:56 AM
I don't remember ever been prejudiced against. I remember some occasions in which some kids tried to offend me by shouting curses in Russian, but they were idiots anyway so I didn't care.

However... Even though prejudice inside the Jewish society is quite rare (or at least under the table), there's a lot of prejudice between Jews and Arabs and vice versa. It ranges from severe xenophobia and distrust, to racist Jewish superiority belief (I am better simply because I'm a Jew). It's disgusting. The prolonged conflict is poisoning people's minds to the point where morality becomes clouded.

My father holds prejudice against Arabs and Muslims. It saddens me greatly. I often argue with him about the importance of an objective point of view, but he refuses to listen. He thinks the world is black & white, he even said it to me. I answered that it's a very immature point of view.
I think there was a time I used to see it that way as well, but I don't remember it now.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Gecko on October 12, 2011, 12:22:12 PM
Well lookie here, I've just been prejudiced against.   :D
Well... ;D

I actually don't have anything against police officers, and never have. After all, they're here to keep the peace. It just annoyed me that I'd get pulled over all the time without doing anything wrong. It hasn't happened since I cut my hair though.

But yes, it's easy to develop generalizations, like mine for example.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Opium on October 12, 2011, 01:26:38 PM
My father holds prejudice against Arabs and Muslims.

So do I, but I think it's OK to hate people for hating (and many religious people DO hate others, muslims are the most notorious for it).  If it weren't then we'd all be speaking german right now.

 
He thinks the world is black & white, he even said it to me. I answered that it's a very immature point of view.

*gasp!*  If I ever said anything like that to my father, I think it would be my death sentence.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: PFG9000 on October 12, 2011, 05:02:38 PM
Well... ;D

I actually don't have anything against police officers, and never have. After all, they're here to keep the peace. It just annoyed me that I'd get pulled over all the time without doing anything wrong. It hasn't happened since I cut my hair though.

But yes, it's easy to develop generalizations, like mine for example.
I'm just joking with you, no offense taken.  I read it and thought it was funny.  Lots of people have far worse to say about police.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: X on October 12, 2011, 07:00:32 PM
Quote
That's why you have to punch them in the face, X.

Oh believe me, I'd like nothing more then to simply "cut lose" with people that try to bring me down and others that I care for.

Quote
Oh you're a pacifist? Then pass your fist through their face ;)

How did you know I was a pacifist?? Did I mention it here before or put it in my bio? I can't remember  :'(
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Neobelmont on October 13, 2011, 12:49:52 AM
That's why you have to punch them in the face, X.

Oh you're a pacifist? Then pass your fist through their face ;)


 One of the main reasons I was hated and teased on was because of my weight it was always the fat jokes with me. However one fact will always remain I am and always will be a big guy. (hell I worked off freaking 100 plus pound I was 360+ now i am in the 250's I am 6'2 I can freaking wear a 2xlt shirt my pants size went from 50 something+ to 42 and I am a active guy I played Football and Lacrosse when I was in high school and I still do some good old walking/jogging/running) Yet I think that with all of that I think my high tolerence might have played a part in it but there is a point when enough is enough and YOU make a statement of don't mess with me.

One of these moments happened in 8th grade in middle school there was this one kid who just messed with me because I was a big passive person (thought he was a real tough guy) ever since 6th grade (I did not have to deal with him in 7th since I moved but well I still had my social problems) but when I came back I snapped at him (after he disrespected me for the last time) and kicked his ass badly. I recall that quite a bit of blood coming from him after I bashed his head (around one of the eyebrows) into the pointy edge of a pc and throwing him into a bunch of desks after we punched each other (he got me in the temple five times)  in history class after that for the rest of the year untill graduation day almost no one messed with me I had my peace. So in a nutshell I just tolerated their crap let it built up then when that one moment happens and bam!!! 

Lucky for me though that after all that I do not have to deal with those jerks anymore college is a different place I have my friends and my peace ;D

 Still the people who do this kind of stuff to other people(who never even did anything to them) to the point that blood must be shed shows that they are really weak or something in their life is just plain wrong. I am a peaceful guy and I always tried to never sink to that level but man don't get someone mad you never know what might happen. Some folks are crazy.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: A-Yty on October 13, 2011, 07:31:58 AM
So do I, but I think it's OK to hate people for hating (and many religious people DO hate others, muslims are the most notorious for it).  If it weren't then we'd all be speaking german right now.

(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.watchuseek.com%2Fattachments%2Ff2%2F489825-should-i-buy-rolex-sub-16610-first-watch-notsureifserious_re_oops_he_tripped_and_fell-s469x304-179758.jpg&hash=42cf31f1f2738e258267caed7a414112)
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Opium on October 13, 2011, 01:28:48 PM
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.watchuseek.com%2Fattachments%2Ff2%2F489825-should-i-buy-rolex-sub-16610-first-watch-notsureifserious_re_oops_he_tripped_and_fell-s469x304-179758.jpg&hash=42cf31f1f2738e258267caed7a414112)

I am serious when I say I hate muslims, and I'm not ashamed to say it.  If I lived in a muslim theocracy, I would be executed under sharia law.  I can't think of a better reason to hate them. Can you?
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Sul_Yong on October 13, 2011, 01:56:53 PM
I personally don't/cannot/unable to hate someone based on religion. If I lived in their theocracy, I'd be killed too. But I wouldn't blame the people or the religion, but rather the ones who are in power that use the cover of "religion" to stay in power. If their religion was questioned, it means their government is questioned, which means their power was questioned, i.e. the questioner is a threat. But the common people could care less if I not Muslim, so why blame them?
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: KaZudra on October 13, 2011, 03:33:46 PM
Why Hate People simply because they are different?
Cause your too lazy to KNOW people, therefore you are Worst than the People you hate simply because there is no valid reason.

You should at least find valid reasons to not like someone.

Religion doesn't tell people to hate those of other religions, its the hypocrite members of their "godly" society who even treat you like shit if you don't pay tithes.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Neobelmont on October 13, 2011, 11:46:36 PM
Why Hate People simply because they are different?
Cause your too lazy to KNOW people, therefore you are Worst than the People you hate simply because there is no valid reason.

You should at least find valid reasons to not like someone.

Religion doesn't tell people to hate those of other religions, its the hypocrite members of their "godly" society who even treat you like shit if you don't pay tithes.

I am serious when I say I hate muslims, and I'm not ashamed to say it.  If I lived in a muslim theocracy, I would be executed under sharia law.  I can't think of a better reason to hate them. Can you?

To some lack of understanding leads to fear, fear leads to hate and violence and so on.  Also sometimes all what it takes is just one bad seed to place it's self so all kinds of hell causes it also to break loose.  It does not matter what religion you practice in the end most talk about peace and respect for your fellow men but one person can just screws things all up and misuse religion for their own rotten use like the jonestown massacre.

As for valid reasons a person should not hate for hate if they did something to you it would be undestandable but come on there will always be a bad seed in a group thats how it's always been if I were to hate on most kids my age I would never had made all kinds of friends from different walks of life and converse with different people and to me it is because of their personality and the way they present themself. You don't need to love but at the least find some common ground and try to respect each other at the very least, yet the sad part is that some won't do that and never will.

Hell I have a muslim teacher for my political science class in college and he's cool for the most part just do not judge a book by the cover for the majority of them like for me it's african amercians I have never been able to mesh real well with my black side (I am a mix of black and white to keep it simple) for most of my life(yet my best friend when I was five was black and even though I have not seen him I still remeber him)  because I am not the ganster rap kind of person that surrounds me nor do I say nigga almost every single time even though there are some that are not that bad,yet in the end I say do your thing just leave me out of it.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Opium on October 14, 2011, 07:34:51 AM
Anyone who believes that myself and virtually everyone I care about doesn't even have a right to be on this earth is not going to be on my friend list.  All analogies about being peaceful kind of go out the window when they make that declaration.  And it's not just muslims, there are plenty of xtians who believe the same thing.  They believe that in their perfect world, I would be dead.  I can't think of a more insulting belief to have about someone, in fact it's far harsher than my own views about them.  I just hate them for causing so much unfair crap for me and I want nothing to do with them.  I wouldn't attack them or teach my children to hate them.
When I mentioned earlier that some of us are in groups that deal with discrimination as a daily part of life, I was talking about from the conservative religious groups, for they make up the most intolerant section of society.  If you are off their radar, then you probably have little idea just how bad it is because you would never see it happening, but trust me those people are ruthless in their quest to cause pain for some of us, and it's all justified in the name of whatever lord they're deluded about. 
Yes, there are people who claim to be members of certain religions but at the same time are not prejudiced, even though their sacred texts are extremely hateful.  I wish those people would either follow the rules of their club, or stop supporting it.  It's like they openly say that they don't believe in most of the tenets of their faith, yet they still support it - which makes no sense and they get very uncomfortable whenever anyone brings it up.  To me, supporting that faith and the hateful texts it upholds is synonymous with directly spewing the hate.  It's like sending money to a neo-nazi group but abhorring racism at the same time - makes NO sense at all.

EDIT:  I don't really intend to have a debate, since debates on this issue never go anywhere.  I just said what I think and I don't believe I'm wrong for thinking it.  It's not hypocritical to hate haters, and if it were then hitler would have taken over the free world because everyone would have been too busy offering analogies about pacifism and peace/love to grab a weapon and fight back.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: X on October 14, 2011, 10:52:26 AM
Quote
It's not hypocritical to hate haters, and if it were then hitler would have taken over the free world because everyone would have been too busy offering analogies about pacifism and peace/love to grab a weapon and fight back.

This is actually a scenario from Star Trek: ToS. The City on the Edge of Forever.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: A-Yty on October 14, 2011, 03:41:57 PM
It's not even a debate - yet Hitler card has been thrown..  :-X
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: KaZudra on October 14, 2011, 05:10:48 PM
It's not even a debate - yet Hitler card has been thrown..  :-X
FUCK! I didn't know Glenn Beck went to these forums!
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: A-Yty on October 14, 2011, 05:45:02 PM
Glenn Beck invented the Hitler Card?

Also, I had to Google Glenn Beck.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: KaZudra on October 15, 2011, 01:00:38 AM
Glenn Beck invented the Hitler Card?

Also, I had to Google Glenn Beck.
This video explains everything.

"GLENN BECK HAS NAZI TOURETTES!" - Lewis Black Steamrolls Glenn Beck! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1s4fj-5zlk#ws)
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Rugal on October 15, 2011, 06:20:23 AM
Where I do charity work, I am the only white person there. Everyone else is African/Haitian. I made one friend with a black man named Lennard and he's a really cool dude, but everyone else there just gives me dirty looks and stares at me. Maybe it's because of my AMAZING BEAUTY? Probably not..

I know they aren't directly being prejudiced, but I know what they are thinking when I see them glaring at me from across the room.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: A-Yty on October 15, 2011, 06:53:55 AM
What are they thinking?
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: X on October 15, 2011, 12:53:33 PM
Quote
Where I do charity work, I am the only white person there. Everyone else is African/Haitian. I made one friend with a black man named Lennard and he's a really cool dude, but everyone else there just gives me dirty looks and stares at me. Maybe it's because of my AMAZING BEAUTY? Probably not..

I know they aren't directly being prejudiced, but I know what they are thinking when I see them glaring at me from across the room.

A lot of people judge a book by its cover. But at least your new buddy Lennard was willing to read the book rather then brows it. A lot more people need to read the book's contents before making a decision. But sadly they aren't doing it.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Slayer on October 15, 2011, 07:09:13 PM
I am serious when I say I hate muslims, and I'm not ashamed to say it. 
That's strange, most people would be ashamed if they discriminated against ethnic minorities like you just did.
If I lived in a muslim theocracy, I would be executed under sharia law.  I can't think of a better reason to hate them. Can you?
Not all of Islam's followers are theocratic rulers. In fact, most of them aren't. I know this may shock you but you are horribly wrong.


Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Opium on October 15, 2011, 11:08:42 PM
That's strange, most people would be ashamed if they discriminated against ethnic minorities like you just did.Not all of Islam's followers are theocratic rulers. In fact, most of them aren't. I know this may shock you but you are horribly wrong.

A religion is not an ethnic minority, silly buns.  I'm anti-religious. I could care less about the color of someone's skin or what their ethnic heritage is.  I suppose you think xtian means white people? 
People who react with shock to any dissent against a segment of society are often brainwashed into a leftist ideology where it's wrong to say that others are wrong.  Meanwhile they ignore the fact that people are being stoned to death for trivial reasons because they live in a bubble where their biggest problem is figuring out ways to be more politically correct than others. 
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Kale on October 15, 2011, 11:44:52 PM
I literally, don't care either way. I think that's the only attitude you can really have if you want to go towards a world where there's not racism/sexism/ageism... etc.

When people stop caring, it stops being effective.

My advice, ignore the idiot that said that to you and stop being friends with him or whatever you were to him.

Now that I say that. I say A LOT of racist things at work. Since the people I've work with are cool with it, and they all know I'm joking anyway. (Don't do it with people you don't know for sure, that's bound to get you into a lot of trouble)

A religion is not an ethnic minority, silly buns.

Jews seems to think they are. That's what always lost me.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Slayer on October 16, 2011, 07:17:01 AM
Ethnicity is judged by culture. People who are in ethnic minorities belong to cultures that lack the same power as the majority culture. In Western society, which I assume we are referring to, members of the ethnic majority are straight white christians. [Keep in mind that ethnic minority status is different from racial minority status]
Muslims take part in a culture outside of the status quo. They are therefore ethnic minorities, as are jews and many other groups.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ethnicity (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ethnicity)

Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Slayer on October 16, 2011, 07:21:38 AM
People who react with shock to any dissent against a segment of society are often brainwashed into a leftist ideology where it's wrong to say that others are wrong.  Meanwhile they ignore the fact that people are being stoned to death for trivial reasons because they live in a bubble where their biggest problem is figuring out ways to be more politically correct than others.
People who react with shock to any dissent against a segment of society are often brainwashed into a rightist ideology where it's wrong to say that others are wrong.  Meanwhile they ignore the fact that people are being ethnically profiled and imprisoned without due process by developed countries because they live in a bubble where their biggest problem is figuring out ways to be more politically assured than others.

I'll stop here, but I think I made my point. I'll consider your further arguments but I won't respond to avoid a potential flame war.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: A-Yty on October 16, 2011, 07:58:40 AM
It's the way Islam is handled that worries me. South Park mocked that double standard well. There shouldn't be a taboo like that in modern world.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Slayer on October 16, 2011, 08:20:23 AM
It's the way Islam is handled that worries me. South Park mocked that double standard well. There shouldn't be a taboo like that in modern world.
I agree with this.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Mooning Freddy on October 16, 2011, 08:21:50 AM
I think you have it kinda wrong, Opium. You don't hate Muslim, you hate Muslim governments. Iran, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan are some of the countries where Medieval Sharia law has become the law of the state, therefore making the countries dark theocracies who don't give a crap about human rights, and at the same time are hypocritical enough to criticize Western cultures. Those countries are the scum of Earth and should be isolated until they reconsider their points of view on the world. Unfortunately, politics don't work that way.   

I'm an enthusiastic supporter of separation of church and state. Freedom of religion means you can believe whatever you want to believe as long as it doesn't concern me. However, once your religious views defy human or civil rights, or you try to enforce them on others, your break the law.

Unfortunately, in my country, the separation is only partial. The construction of places of worship (mosques and synagogues) is still funded from taxpayers' money, and some aspects of life, such as marriage, are still under a religious monopoly. What it basically means, is that marriages of Jews and non-Jews are forbidden by state law (since religious lobbies do not allow that), along with same-sex marriages. However, if the two get married in a different country, the marriage becomes legitimate.
NOW THAT'S BULLSHIT. Eventually, the law does not prevent people from getting married, it just compels them to get married outside the country. That's one of the laws which gets the most criticism in the country, but it seems like the law isn't gonna change. Religious lobbies grab the politicians by their balls. 

Quote
Jews seems to think they are. That's what always lost me.

Lost you? How about lost everybody? lol
You do realize one of the greatest conflicts in the state of Israel is answering the question "What is a Jew?"
Jews are the only nation who believe in the Jewish faith (I think "faith" fits better here than "religion").
The reason for that is because Judaism is the only religion among the three monotheistic ones which is not missionary. Jews never wanted other nations to believe whatever they believe in, on the contrary. They believe their faith has only been intended for one nation.
Now who belongs to the Jewish nation anyway? Now that's a hard question. After 2000 years away from their homeland, the Jewish communities all across the world lost connection with each other. You think Jews only lived in Europe and North Africa? Guess what. There were Jewish communities for centuries so far off as Ethiopia and India (black Jews, hehehe). How did they prove their Judaism to the skeptical Europeans? Jewish traditions, stemming from the Jewish faith.   
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Bloodreign on October 17, 2011, 01:50:03 AM
You punch them in the face, then kick the crap out of them while they are down.

Seriously sometimes I think this world still lives in the dark ages.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Opium on October 17, 2011, 11:09:27 AM
People who react with shock to any dissent against a segment of society are often brainwashed into a rightist ideology where it's wrong to say that others are wrong.

Right-wing people think it's wrong to say that others are wrong?  From where I'm sitting, that seems to be their favorite past time.  They're a thousand times more discriminatory than left-wing people.  As a bisexual atheist, I'm definitely more on the left than the right.  People who are on the extreme left or right annoy the hell out of everyone, and I'm talking about extreme leftists who preach pacifism and peace/love instead of being tough when it's needed.  There's nothing OK with the ideals that radical religious groups preach.  There's nothing OK about a world view where it's acceptable to exterminate people who don't think like you.  I hate those views, and not just from muslims but from xtians, too.  I hate religious dogma and the hell it has wrought upon the human race and I wish I would live long enough to see our species finally wake up and rise above it.  The stats show it's happening now, but there's definitely a ways to go.

Meanwhile they ignore the fact that people are being ethnically profiled and imprisoned without due process by developed countries because they live in a bubble where their biggest problem is figuring out ways to be more politically assured than others.
I don't ignore the fact that people are being ethnically profiled, I'm just not about to complain about it.  If there were a threat to society that 99 times out of 100 shared the same physical characteristics as someone just like me, then I would understand that I would get looked at with suspicion.  Bitching about profiling doesn't do a god damn thing except force people like TSA workers to strip search old ladies so that it appears to be 'fair' for far-left people.  It's like the affirmative-action of law enforcement, and it just doesn't work.  You don't make life more fair for some people by making it less fair for others, two wrongs don't make a right, etc etc.  If there were people who were unfairly detained by the US govt after 9/11, then that really sucks but it's definitely NOT an argument against my views. I hate those people and I've stated why, if some of them have been treated unfairly then that's a completely separate issue and doesn't have anything to do with the reasons why I hate the people that I hate. As far as 'politically assured' goes, I'm not familiar with that phrase so I really don't know where you're going with that.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Gunlord on October 17, 2011, 11:48:55 AM
Hmm...well, first off, Ms. Opium, if you do hate Muslims--or Christians, or any other religious group--it would not be a particularly good idea to make much of a fuss about it on forums like the CVD. This is not an attempt to censor you, of course, nor is it an attempt to mini-mod. It's simply an observation--the mods here, like Jorgey and Bloodreign, go out of their way to make sure this place is welcoming for everyone. Christians and atheists are both welcome here, along with Muslims, or pagans, or people of a wide variety of religious views. At least as far as I am aware, the only restrictions placed on any of them is that they treat everyone else with respect. A Christian who went around saying "I hate atheists/muslims/whatever" would find himself unwelcome in fairly short order, I believe. The same applies to atheists, I surmise.

Of course, that leads me away from a simple remonstration to a critique of your point more salient to this thread. You are correct in saying that being prejudiced against a religion is not the same thing as being prejudiced against a race, but the problem is, *both* are relatively irrational.

You rightfully point out that "Anyone who believes that myself and virtually everyone I care about doesn't even have a right to be on this earth is not going to be on my friend list." The problem is, many muslims--and "xtians," and members of bunches of other religious groups categorically DO NOT believe that. Quakers and liberal Christians in general are well-known for their tolerance of homosexuality, along with many other things. And it's hard to imagine Sufi Muslims wanting to eliminate anyone from the Earth, given how they stress self-perfection and mysticism and are known for their non-violence. My own parents, both of whom are Muslim, take a fairly dim view of homophobia, along with a relatively positive view of atheists, Christians, and other religious groups generally.

It makes no more sense, therefore, to "hate" Muslims, Christians, or whatever than it does to hate blacks or whites. You can hate specific groups of blacks or whites--you can hate black gang members or white KKKers--but hating entire races paints with too broad a brush. By the same token, you can hate specific sects of certain religions--Wahabi muslims, Christian cultists--but hating entire religions paints with too broad a brush.

To bring it all back to my friend Beingthehero's original post (though I get the distinct feeling he might have just been joking around with Peklo rather than being serious...XD), this would indeed seem to be a good way of dealing with prejudice, applicable far beyond just ethnic or religious prejudice, too. The world is a very complex place. Those who judge others based on only a single facet of their personalities, whether it's their origins, or their appearance, or their beliefs, or whatever, are blinding themselves to a great deal of that complexity. Thus, in the final analysis, they hurt themselves as much as they hurt the people they're prejudiced against.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Neobelmont on October 17, 2011, 04:02:49 PM
I do not even know why the hell I am putting it but this whole subject makes just makes me think of this :


Everyone's A Little Bit Racist -- ToS style (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNSrDy1Otas#)
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Slayer on October 17, 2011, 04:17:15 PM

Right-wing people think it's wrong to say that others are wrong?  From where I'm sitting, that seems to be their favorite past time.  They're a thousand times more discriminatory than left-wing people.  As a bisexual atheist, I'm definitely more on the left than the right.  People who are on the extreme left or right annoy the hell out of everyone, and I'm talking about extreme leftists who preach pacifism and peace/love instead of being tough when it's needed.
My apologies, I should not have assumed you were right wing just because you're against muslims. I know far too many people irl who have such views because of their conservatism, and I should not have lumped you in like that. The way I expressed my argument was also sophomoric.
That being said, as a fellow atheist, I also hate religious dogma. I just don't think it's right to hate a whole group of people because of that dogma, as people less often than more follow it to the extent it decries.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Opium on October 17, 2011, 11:18:32 PM
It makes no more sense, therefore, to "hate" Muslims, Christians, or whatever than it does to hate blacks or whites. You can hate specific groups of blacks or whites--you can hate black gang members or white KKKers--but hating entire races paints with too broad a brush. By the same token, you can hate specific sects of certain religions--Wahabi muslims, Christian cultists--but hating entire religions paints with too broad a brush.

Hating someone for what they believe or what they do is completely different than hating someone for what they are, so I really don't know how you can say that hating someone for their beliefs or actions is the same as hating someone for their race.  It's just not. The same. At all. 
And people always say the same thing: "Well, not ALL (insert religion here) people are like that."  So really there is no such thing as a xtian, or a muslim for that matter, because they all cherry pick which rules they want to deem as viable and which ones to ignore.  I'm not sure why that's not evidence to a rational person that the whole thing is BS, but my point is that these religions are the source of all manner of bigotry and prejudice.  It's no coincidence that visions of a utopian future always show mankind having moved past religious beliefs.  They are delusions which people have used to justify the most heinous acts that have ever been committed in our history. Why anyone would want to identify with one of those groups AT ALL, even if it's only half-assed, is beyond me.  But, even supporting it half-assed is still supporting it.  One can make donations to a neo nazi group all day long and claim to not be racist, but they're still supporting the hatred.  Truthfully, the xtians and muslims who advocate the extermination of peoples are not radical at all. They are the ones that are actually following their holy texts.  It's the xtians who say they are accepting and tolerant that make ZERO sense, because that is not what their bible says to do.  Jesus said it a couple of times, but he also said a lot of violent and intolerant things, and plus he's in a tiny part of the book.  This is the cherry-picking that I was talking about. 
I'm reminded of a saying: "If you want to make someone an atheist, just hand them a bible."   Most religious people have no idea what their religion is even about.  A Pew study last year made national headlines when it was determined that atheists knew more about the major religions of the world than religious people did.  Catholics actually scored the lowest, even when the questions were about xtianity.  I challenge anyone to read the bible, or the koran, and  say that they have ever met ANYONE who actually follows the tenets of those texts.  Nobody does.
I'm going off on tangents, so let me just make a point as it relates to this topic.  Many of the prejudices we have today simply would not exist if religion went away, since people have no other reason to feel the way they do other than 'because my church says so'.  That's the beef I have with it and those who support it.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Mooning Freddy on October 18, 2011, 12:42:58 AM
Quote
Jesus said it a couple of times, but he also said a lot of violent and intolerant things, and plus he's in a tiny part of the book.

You kinda lost me here. Didn't Jesus say "If someone slaps your cheek, turn the other cheek"? Like in, extreme nonsensical pacifism? Which is the reason he was hated by most Jews in his time?
For someone who learned the bible (the Old Testament that is) in school, I can tell you it's interesting to read as a historical documentation of life in the ancient world, if you ignore all the religious stuff, that is.
The religious idea behind the "Samuel" and "Kings" books is one and the same.

Israelites commit sins---> Israelites get punished (by God)---> Israelites repent---> Israelites are redeemed.

The formula keeps repeating itself for a period of maybe a thousand years, connecting all historical occurrences to it. The separation of the 10 northern tribes from Judea (caused by the tyranny of Judea towards the other tribes) is explained as a punishment for the sins of Solomon. The destruction of the Temple and exile of Judea by the Babylonians? Punishment for the prolonged infidelity of Judea.

It's a philosophical idea that has been borrowed into Christianity, and is a basic concept of Judeo-Christian faith. Long story short? Bad stuff won't happen to you if you're a good person. The problem? It doesn't work that way in real life. Even in ancient times, nobody believed that. You expect people to believe it now?
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: X on October 18, 2011, 01:07:05 AM
Personally I don't follow any religion of any kind as I prefer spirituality. I don't mean to go off-topic here but I think I should show you what I've discovered. Apparently these are the original ten commandments before man's ego stepped in and f@#ked it up.

1. Thou shalt worship no other God.
2. Thou shalt make thee no molten Gods.
3. The feast of unleavened bread thou shalt keep.
4. Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shall rest.
5. Thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of gathering at year's end.
6. Thrice in a year shall all your men children appear before the lord God.
7. Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven.
8. Neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of passover be left unto morning.
9. The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God.
10. Thou shalt not seethe a kid [ie, a young goat] in his mother's milk.

Paints a very different picture then what we were given in the end, doesn't it? This form of the commandments are a lot less strict on humanity then the other set of commandments will ever be.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Gunlord on October 18, 2011, 03:24:52 AM
Hmm...well, again, Jorgey and the other mods here don't really like big religious debates and stuff. If they want me to shut up, I'll happily do so, and I apologize for skirting the rules. If not, though, I hope I haven't said anything too out of the way, and given the reactions of the other people in the thread I think it's safe to assume I haven't...

"It's just not. The same. At all."

It's not exactly the same, it's just irrational for different reasons.

"And people always say the same thing: "Well, not ALL (insert religion here) people are like that."  So really there is no such thing as a xtian, or a muslim for that matter, because they all cherry pick which rules they want to deem as viable and which ones to ignore."

Arguably true, but this makes "hating xtians" or whatever irrational. If there's really no such thing as True Christian or True Muslim, how and why could you hate them? You can't hate something that doesn't exist.

More pertinently, though, and perhaps less flippantly, you also prove why hating people because of their religious identification is futile and irrational. The point you make here undermines the point you make later, that "bad" religious people are the only "true" ones, that they're the only ones who are "really" following their religious texts. The contradictory nature of those texts, however, makes this a spurious accusation. You're correct in that "good" religious people pick and choose which parts of the text they worship, but "bad" religious people do the exact same thing. They focus on the "bad" parts of the text while ignoring those which explicitly state to show love, forgiveness, mercy, and all that. A Christian homophobe cannot point to some verse in Leviticus as proof that "homosexuals deserve to die" without simultaneously ignoring the verses in the New Testament which are all about "judge not, lest ye be judged," and all that.

"It's no coincidence that visions of a utopian future always show mankind having moved past religious beliefs."

Not really. Aside from the fact that many utopian visions are explicitly religious themselves (the 1000 years of Christ's reign some Christians believe in, for instance), even in sci-fi you have nearly-utopian worlds in which religion is still present; the lovely Starways Congress of Orson Scott Card, for instance, is one in which Catholicism and traditional Asian religions are still present.

"They are delusions which people have used to justify the most heinous acts that have ever been committed in our history. Why anyone would want to identify with one of those groups AT ALL, even if it's only half-assed, is beyond me."

Indisputably true, but it is also true that these "delusions" have been used to justify the most glorious acts in our history as well. The same Catholicism which gave us the Crusades and the Inquisition also gave us the Sistine Chapel and the Cathedral of Notre Dame. The same Catholicism which encouraged warfare against Muslims and Protestants is the some one which discouraged it among Europeans--the Peace and Truce of God (look it up on Wikipedia) was one of the only ways to get European knights to stop killing each other every day of the week. This is to take only one example.

"But, even supporting it half-assed is still supporting it.  One can make donations to a neo nazi group all day long and claim to not be racist, but they're still supporting the hatred."

The problem is, these groups don't support the hate *at all.* It's possible to be a Christian without supporting everything other Christians do, just like it's possible to be a capitalist without supporting everything corrupt businesspeople or whoever do, or it's possible to be a libertarian without supporting the more outlandish theories of Ayn Rand. As I said above, much of the "bad stuff" in the bible has to be cherry-picked or interpreted themselves as well--the "bad christians" or "bad muslims" are hardly exegetical savants. A Quaker who says Fred Phelps is interpreting the Bible wrong is no less correct than he is when he says a Quaker is in the wrong.

"Truthfully, the xtians and muslims who advocate the extermination of peoples are not radical at all. They are the ones that are actually following their holy texts.  It's the xtians who say they are accepting and tolerant that make ZERO sense, because that is not what their bible says to do.  Jesus said it a couple of times, but he also said a lot of violent and intolerant things, and plus he's in a tiny part of the book.  This is the cherry-picking that I was talking about. "

Again, read what I said above. Now, you can argue that the "good" parts of the bible are just a "tiny tiny" part of it, but this is simply untrue. You can find exhortations for love and tolerance all over it, including the Old Testament. The quote from my sig is from Leviticus, for instance (19:33-34). There's the lovely story of filial affection in the Book of Ruth, and the wonderful description of the Lord's mercy to the people of Nineveh in Jonah's story. You simply can't say "there's more bad than good" in the Bible or Koran or whatever and expect people to take it on faith. Many of read both those books and still disagree.

"I'm reminded of a saying: "If you want to make someone an atheist, just hand them a bible."   Most religious people have no idea what their religion is even about.  A Pew study last year made national headlines when it was determined that atheists knew more about the major religions of the world than religious people did.  Catholics actually scored the lowest, even when the questions were about xtianity. "

I've read that study--it's not as favorable towards atheists as you might like to make it out to be. That study had some questions about Asian religions such Buddhism and Hinduism. Since atheists come from all religious groups, i.e you have ex-Christians/Jews/Muslims *and* ex-Buddhists and Hindus and what not, the fact that many scored a bit higher on tests of general religious knowledge isn't surprising. When it comes to specifics, you're right that Catholics don't do well, but Christians (Evangelicals and Mormons in particular) still did better than atheists in regards to the Bible:

http://pewforum.org/U-S-Religious-Knowledge-Survey-Who-Knows-What-About-Religion.aspx (http://pewforum.org/U-S-Religious-Knowledge-Survey-Who-Knows-What-About-Religion.aspx)

Quote
Though white evangelicals have lower scores than Jews and atheists/agnostics overall, they do significantly better on questions about the Bible. White evangelicals correctly answer an average of 5.1 out of seven Bible questions, compared with 4.4 among atheists and agnostics and 4.3 among Jews. Mormons answer almost six of the seven Bible questions correctly on average.

(emphasis added)

"I challenge anyone to read the bible, or the koran, and  say that they have ever met ANYONE who actually follows the tenets of those texts."

I've read the NIV front-to-back. While I certainly don't follow its tenets to such a great extent, I've met a few people who do.

"Many of the prejudices we have today simply would not exist if religion went away, since people have no other reason to feel the way they do other than 'because my church says so'."

Debatable, and even if this were true (a dubious assumption), there are just as many prejudices which would "go away" if other things besides religion were to disappear. People are prejudiced against those of other countries (and you choose to be a citizen of any given country--national hatred is more similar to religious hatred than ethnic hatred), fans of different sports teams (or videogames), adherents of other political parties, and so on, and so forth. If hating people simply because of...not how they act, or even what they believe, but because of what particular ideological group they say they belong to, is legitimate, you'll find yourself hating far more than just "xtians" and muslims. And you may find yourself spewing as much hate as the worst of them, in that case.

...

Phew! Quite a long spiel. I suppose it was a bit foolish of me, given what I've said about the problems of religious debate on forums like these, but I thought it might be disrespectful to simply ignore your post, Ms. Opium. As I said, though, if Jorgey or the other mods wants me to lay off this discussion, I will most happily do so. <3 <3 <3 Jorgey-sama~!
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on October 22, 2011, 11:16:29 AM
That was.... a beautiful post, Gunlord. Well-written, properly thought out, amicable while at the same time correct in its presentation of both facts and opinion on the counterpoint to other poster's point.

You totally deserve that Peacekeeper award.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Flame on November 09, 2011, 02:50:23 PM
I never got really prejudiced against in any way- (although up till recently i had waist long hair which prompted a few jokes or such) but one thing that really bothers me, is seeing in any kind of application, the race question. "What is your race?" and then lists the options. It just bothers me, since it shouldn't matter.

So I just go to the "other" line and write "American".

Because that's all someone needs to know from my applications and forms.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Mooning Freddy on November 10, 2011, 07:10:08 AM
the race question. "What is your race?" and then lists the options. It just bothers me, since it shouldn't matter.

So I just go to the "other" line and write "American".

Now that's fucking stupid. I'd figure asking "what's your nationality" in America is quite pointless, but What the hell do they expect you to write as your "race"?
"Well, I'm a Semitic Anglo-Saxon with possibly certain Slavic roots."

How's that for ignorant people who don't understand the definition of "race"?
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on November 10, 2011, 07:20:37 AM
I actually take issue with "American", as "America" is a continent, not a country.
"UnitedStatesian" doesn't quite roll off the tongue, though.

People continuously get "Nationality", "Race" and "Descent" wrong.  This leads to people saying stupid things like:

"He doesn't look hispanic, he's white, has blonde hair and blue eyes!"  <----NO, race and nationality have little to do with one another.
"Umm... that's because he's Argentinian.  They look like that down there."

or

"What's your nationality?"
"I'm Dominican"
"I thought you were born in Queens"
"Yeah but my parents are Dominican, so I'm Dominican" <---No, you are of Dominican descent.  You were still born in USA so your nationality is still USA.

"What's your race?"
"I'm American" <---'American' isn't a skin color.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: TheouAegis on November 10, 2011, 09:10:16 AM
Mexicans smell like tacos.
Japanese girls smell like fish.
Korean girls smell like teriyaki.
"That's racist!"

I get that a lot. I'm like, "Mexican isn't a race. People in Mexico smell like taco spices. Japanese isn't a race, people in Japan eat a lot of seafood. ... And people from Korea who come to the US frequently open up teriyaki restaurants."
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Flame on November 10, 2011, 12:54:50 PM
Thats another thing. When the US goes and just assumes it owns the name "America".

I just write it to make a point. That my race shouldnt matter, im a citizen of the USA, and thats what matters. (also United Statesian- im not sure thats even a correct term- doesnt roll off the tongue as well and sounds kinda awkward.)

also, "White" and "Black" are not races. They are skin colors. and yet they appear on those sections.

Some Do say "Nationality" though, which is a bit better, but doesnt excuse the option for existing.

Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: TheouAegis on November 10, 2011, 08:46:37 PM
I don't get why I have to be Caucasian. The term's used these days to mean "white" but that's not correct. Turks, Arabs, Egyptians, Icelanders and French are all Caucasian, even though not very many frogs or Icelanders would say they look like an Arab. I'm technically Aryan, but if I put that on an application, I might get turned away because people are stupid enough to think that makes me a Nazi.

And yes, I do see "Caucasian" as a racial identifier in some places still.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: CastleToastM on November 11, 2011, 04:14:21 PM
I don't get why I have to be Caucasian. The term's used these days to mean "white" but that's not correct. Turks, Arabs, Egyptians, Icelanders and French are all Caucasian, even though not very many frogs or Icelanders would say they look like an Arab. I'm technically Aryan, but if I put that on an application, I might get turned away because people are stupid enough to think that makes me a Nazi.

And yes, I do see "Caucasian" as a racial identifier in some places still.

I count as a "Caucasian" because I'm Celtic. I never did learn what the term meant. I guess I understand better now.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: TheouAegis on November 11, 2011, 05:42:33 PM
It's actually a pretty broad term. It covers most of Eurasia. All of Europe, the Middle East, northern Africa, and parts of south Asia are Caucasian. Then you have Mongoloids, Negroids. I'm not sure where Americans fall under, or if they had their own category. I'd assume they were Mongoloid.

Either way, seemed to be a lot of racism involved in identifying racial differences early on. Hitler drew on that and twisted it into total racism. Aryans were simply Turkish descendants. Semitics were obviously from Jericho. They were the two main Caucasian subraces, so Hitler didn't have to argue against Jews very hard, since he had medical science on his side to say that Aryans (which include most of Europe, not just the Norse) were superior to Semitics.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: KaZudra on November 11, 2011, 06:29:56 PM
I love that question, "What's your nationality?"
I simple answer with great truth, American.
If your born in America, your fucking American, none of that Asian-American, African-American Shit, Simply American.
If you are Asian Decent and Have no national citizenship in any Asian country, You're American.

This Applies to everyone.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on November 11, 2011, 07:33:08 PM
Yeah but if you're born in Canada, you're American, because AMERICA IS A CONTINENT.
Same if you're born in Mexico.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: X on November 11, 2011, 10:01:01 PM
Quote
Either way, seemed to be a lot of racism involved in identifying racial differences early on. Hitler drew on that and twisted it into total racism. Aryans were simply Turkish descendants. Semitics were obviously from Jericho. They were the two main Caucasian subraces, so Hitler didn't have to argue against Jews very hard, since he had medical science on his side to say that Aryans (which include most of Europe, not just the Norse) were superior to Semitics.

Hitler's super race dream goes even further back then that. I recently watched a program in which documents regarding Hitler's Aryan "super" race were made known. All members of Hitler's inner circle believed that they were descendant of a group of super beings that once dwelt on a continent in the north Atlantic (Atlantis). The whole super race program was all about reverting their people back to Atlantian statues; Blond hair, blue eyes, Nordic features, 8 to 12 feet in height, superior abilities, longevity, etc. Prior to the war, Nazi archeologists were sent all over Europe and Asia in search of any and all genetic linkage pertaining to Atlantian descendants. It was very informative and this was something I never knew before. More and more it seem the world in some fashion or another are all consciously or unconsciously directing attention back to this cradle of civilization. If not to recreate a super race then it's about recovering the lost technology or information. Hitler was obviously obsessed if he and his close-nit group were willing to murder over 6 million people for it.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: TheouAegis on November 11, 2011, 10:31:46 PM
It's a good thing they failed in their quest, too. Otherwise Cthulhu might have been awakened or a shoggoth unleashed upon our unsuspecting race.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: CastleToastM on November 11, 2011, 10:47:56 PM
Yeah but if you're born in Canada, you're American, because AMERICA IS A CONTINENT.
Same if you're born in Mexico.

Isn't America two continents, technically speaking?
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: TheouAegis on November 11, 2011, 10:51:34 PM
Was one until Roosevelt (I think) dug a swath of increased property value across Panama. Not sure. I thought it was one land mass until then. The last remnant of Pangaea.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: KaZudra on November 11, 2011, 11:10:36 PM
Okay, you got me there, but almost all U.S. Americans are reffered to as simply American, Canadians to Canada, and South Americans to that Part of the World where there doesn't seem to have anything else but drugs.

As for Hitler and his retarded Mumbo Jumbo about a superior race, its all pious.

I firmly believe believe in the X potential in human beings, X being in math terms of mystery (solve for X)
Also meaning that Human potential can also become unlimited if tuned and willed, this is why there are so many extraordinary people out there.

Although, I don't believe it stops there.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on November 12, 2011, 10:50:16 AM
Wow you're one prejudiced, egocentric man, Kamui Zero.
BTW I'm from South America (Ecuador, to be specific).  I can tell you that it's not about drugs at all, and generalizing it as such fills me with fear that there are others like you who would have such narrow-minded views of the world.  This is further noticed in your "Foreign Music" topic, where you assume everyone you speak to must be from the USA.

This is an international forum.  I suggest you exercise some tact and read a few books before writing your vapid statements based on your improper education on the world, and whatever drivel you've been spoonfed by movies/tv/media.  Not everyone in South America is running a Drug Cartel.

Congratulations.  The statements above are proof of how I deal with being prejudiced against.

Anyway...

In some countries in Europe these days, scientists have adopted the view that there are six continents.  They have lumped Europe and Asia into "Eurasia", so we've got North America, South, America, Africa, Eurasia, Oceania, and Antartica.  Some places erroneously say "Australia", which is slightly incorrect, as the continent and all the islands surrounding it are "Oceania" and "Australia" is just the island of Australia, and does not count New Zealand, etc.

In some other countries, they lump both America continents into one, which makes sense from a geographical standpoint; they are all one large mass of land, even with the separation being the Panama Canal.  In some other countries, they do political separations, so Europe and the Middle East are separated, so you have Europe and "Asia" (even though the middle east isn't very asiatic), and they also have Central America, which is the countries between Mexico and Colombia, starting from Guatamala and Belize in the north, and ending with Panama in the south.

Regardless of how you slice it, a person living in North, South, or Central America could, by at least one definition, be an "American", regardless of whether they were born in the USA or not.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Flame on November 12, 2011, 03:21:08 PM
and South Americans to that Part of the World where there doesn't seem to have anything else but drugs.
that's a pretty broad generalization. And pretty bigoted.


Quote
I firmly believe believe in the X potential in human beings, X being in math terms of mystery (solve for X)
Also meaning that Human potential can also become unlimited if tuned and willed, this is why there are so many extraordinary people out there.
SOUNDS LIKE MAVERICK TALK TO ME
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg818.imageshack.us%2Fimg818%2F517%2Fmmxh.jpg&hash=b16fe446fda9e9a1e309c92f297efb08)
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: TheouAegis on November 12, 2011, 03:54:40 PM
He forgot the tranvestites too.

I'll admit, that was an overly broad generalization by Kamui, but it's not far off for United Statesians (... :D ) these days. Mexico is notorious nowadays for its drug cartels almost as much as its immigrant laborers. But really, it's just Mexico and Colombia that are best known for the drugs. Argentina's known for Nazi survivors. Brazil is known for its transsexual transvestites from Transylvania. Cuba for its drugs, missiles, and government. I mean, when you look at it, there are three countries known best for their drug cartels. Yes, it's an overgeneralization, but three countries (and Brazil) have dominated Hispanic news in the US. Most United Statesians probably couldn't tell you where Ecuador or Peru are on a world map, but quite a few more could tell you where Mexico, Brazil and Cuba are. (Not dissing on Brazil at all, just saying they're a pretty well-known country because of some things :D ).

Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: X on November 13, 2011, 11:07:40 AM
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(Not dissing on Brazil at all, just saying they're a pretty well-known country because of some things :D ).

I've never associated Brazil with drugs or the like. Instead, every time I hear the word Brazil Mardi Gras pops into my head. Or maybe it's called Carnival, I'm not too sure. Either way it's one hell of a party!
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on November 13, 2011, 02:22:59 PM
...Most United Statesians probably couldn't tell you where Ecuador or Peru are on a world map...

This speaks volumes about two things:
1. lack of education (in other countries, it is extremely important to know your world, whether it's by culture, geography, or current events).
2. egocentrism (a large number of people in the USA are so immersed in their own culture, whether by their upbringing, their education, or their own influences so far as to just not care about any other cultures other than their own).

It's sad, really, to be so ignorant of the large world we live in.

Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: KaZudra on November 13, 2011, 03:24:12 PM
This speaks volumes about two things:
1. lack of education (in other countries, it is extremely important to know your world, whether it's by culture, geography, or current events).
2. egocentrism (a large number of people in the USA are so immersed in their own culture, whether by their upbringing, their education, or their own influences so far as to just not care about any other cultures other than their own).

It's sad, really, to be so ignorant of the large world we live in.

Study says most of the US population can't even point themselves on a map.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: TheouAegis on November 13, 2011, 04:54:29 PM
I can!

...

*goes to Google Maps and types in address*
...
*zooms out*
*pokes computer screen*
THERE I AM!
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: CastleToastM on November 13, 2011, 08:04:06 PM
I can!

...

*goes to Google Maps and types in address*
...
*zooms out*
*pokes computer screen*
THERE I AM!

That sir, is stupidly brilliant.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Flame on November 13, 2011, 09:19:19 PM
This speaks volumes about two things:
1. lack of education (in other countries, it is extremely important to know your world, whether it's by culture, geography, or current events).
2. egocentrism (a large number of people in the USA are so immersed in their own culture, whether by their upbringing, their education, or their own influences so far as to just not care about any other cultures other than their own).

It's sad, really, to be so ignorant of the large world we live in.

Yeah. US History doesnt really go too in depth with World History and Geography. Its mostly US History, and SOME world matter.

Education in the US is abysmal compared to other countries like Europe, and hell, even parts of South America.

And yet, ironically enough, we still have some of the best Universities in the world, where people from all around the globe, (read: rich people, usually from Europe and the Middle East) come to study.

Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Kale on November 13, 2011, 11:12:22 PM
Oh, god...... Stop with this type of talk. I honestly don't give a rats ass where Peru is. Don't give teachers/universities/schools more ideas to cram down our throats on irrelevant things.

General Education is almost completely useless. Art should be something that you learn if you're interested not because it's there. Geography, history and such too. I've probably learned more when I look things up myself compared to the useless classes that pushed it on me.

It doesn't speak volumes on education, though I do think it's lacking. It's speaks volumes of interests. As for americans being into their own "culture" is bull too... because it's not only americans, it's everyone. You have koreans, chinese, japanese, mexicans, philippians, that come over here thinking it's heaven on earth and not a worry in the world, which is absolute bull. Everyone from everywhere is the same, they're all stuck up in their own culture, cuz if they weren't they'd realize america sucks just as much as all the other places in the world, barring 3rd world countries.

Not to mention, the only reason those countries may have more knowledge of US is because most of them are probably taught growing up that US is a huge commerce pie that they can take a piece of.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Mooning Freddy on November 14, 2011, 12:11:46 AM
Study says most of the US population can't even point themselves on a map.

As miss South Carolina (I think) said in response to the question: "I honestly believe, that the reason for that is because most people don't have a map, because there are too many poor people in America like in Iraq, or in South Africa and they can't afford to buy a map."  :-X

Holy shit people. Some of you have no sense of humor. Others defend ignorance by saying "I have a right to be ignorant because general knowledge is useless to my lifestyle."

You prove the point. You prove the damn point. What point? That democracy is useless, because most people don't know what's good for them and therefore vote for the candidate who is the most popular, or for whatever party their parents vote for, whatever. 
That's bullshit. If you're ignorant, don't vote. It's our responsibility to promote an intelligent society, in which people are aware of what's going on around them and don't just accept any government. People say that all politicians are corrupt and identical, but they don't do a damn thing to change that. Ignorance is a sort of slavery, or like Orwell wrote, "Ignorance is power" i.e. ignorance gives power to authoritarian governments. Think about it. Acknowledge that.

If you take no interest in politics, you have the right to do so. Everyone lives the way he or she wants to. But also acknowledge that: politics is all around you. It's in the prices of the food you buy in your store. It's in the roads you drive on. It's in the pollution in the air. It's in the electricity you power your house with.
Don't take those things for granted . They are the result of certain political conditions. The government doesn't owe you shit- but if you didn't have one, you'd have no police, no stable economy, no law, and you'd fear for your life.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Kale on November 14, 2011, 01:17:33 AM
Sounds like it was to me, so I'll answer.

One, we don't have a democracy. What we have is much more a republic than a democracy.

Ignorant people vote all the time. Why do you think Obama's in office? Would he be in office, if all the ignorant people didn't vote? I don't know, maybe he still will be. But have you seen the election and people that went to DC screaming Obama's our messiah and all that BS.

Everyone in the world is ignorant, one way or another, if you aren't then you are fucking omniscient. But yes, it does give right to authoritarian government, but guess what, intelligence does too. Because without the intelligent people takign advantage of ignorant people, then no one would be able to get into that kind of power. So saying ignorance is what's bad, or what ever is just looking at it one sided.

The government does owe me, and other citizens. We are what holds it up, we are also the one who ends up paying them in what we call taxes. They do owe me, you and everyone else that pays their taxes. That's why there is police, law, and an economy. Governments that think they don't owe you shit would be the totalitarian government.

I never said general knowledge is useless to my life style. I said General Education... or rather to be more specific, forced General Education is. If you are interested in that, then you take it. I would take some, but not all this bullshit that they enforce upon me. Wtf is a reading of an italian book going to do me? Of course I could've taken other fine arts classes, but it's just the same shit in a different book.

Also wanted to add, with concerning to my last paragraph there. I've read more books than the books that was enforced on me. When you're interested, you can look things up yourself. You don't need it shoved in your face. If you do you probably won't remember it anyway.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Mooning Freddy on November 14, 2011, 07:11:17 AM
First off, conspiracy theories aside, you do have a democracy. You may say your country isn't entirely free, when compared to, IDK, Finland for example (the country rated highest in Freedom house), but still you have more freedom than most of the world.  Obama is exactly my point. Obama is a decent president (in my non-American opinion) and he makes good points.
Maybe I'm wrong? That's what I learned from various sources. I may be wrong.
Anyway, Obama WAS chosen because he was popular and had a good campaign. Maybe a little bit like Kennedy. Would he be chosen purely for his political agenda? I don't know. I do know that after Bush, the general opinion in America was increasingly pro-democratic.   

The second statement, well, I agree with you and you missed my point. When I said the government doesn't owe you shit, what I meant was that the only reason the authorities build roads, enforce law and and give you education is because the public demands it. The meaning of democracy is that the government exists for the people, not visa-versa. And when the public doesn't demand anything, the government wouldn't do anything. It's really simple- you mustn't take rights for granted- you fight for them.   

General knowledge against general education. Hmmm. It's a different argument than mine. You may say that the general school program is... Well... Incorrect in the matter that it forces you to learn minor subject instead of subjects that are more important to make you an intelligent man. I somewhat agree with that. You still must understand that ignorance is bad for a healthy society. You need a certain amount of intelligence to avoid a close-minded way of thinking. You don't see many intelligent people who are racists, do you? That's because racism is a kind of ignorance.
As you said, intelligent people are using people's ignorance to control them. Well, guess what. If there weren't so many ignorant people that wouldn't work. And then we'd have a society that's more free than we have today.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on November 14, 2011, 07:13:49 AM
@Kale:

It's called enrichment.

If you cram yourself up only with the ideas and knowledge you're interested in, you tend to develop a closed-minded, narrow view of the world.  You need to be taught everything, not just what you like.  Since when is it about just what you like?  You have to take in everything. It's like food.  When you're a kid, you don't want to eat the bitter vegetables, but guess what?  You have to eat them because they're good for you.  They're good for your body.  The same with knowledge you don't like. You don't want it, but it's good for your mind.

You can argue that it's your right not to learn what you don't like, but I can argue that it's not what's best for society, overall.

You'd be surprised when something that was 'shoved in your face' years ago, turns out to be of importance later.  I didn't think I'd ever need the Pythagorean theorem or the knowledge of projectile motion physics, but it turns out I use both of those for a number of ways, these days.

@Freddy:
Wow, you don't skip a beat turning something political, do ya?
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Flame on November 14, 2011, 11:26:15 AM
I dont want to talk politics, because people will stick to what they believe, and no amount of internet arguing will change that. This could become a 15 page political debate, and NOTHING except wasted time and high frustrations will come out of it
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Kale on November 14, 2011, 01:55:34 PM
@ Jorge

That's fine... in primary school. But it should not be forced on you when you are going to college when you are going to study a profession or skill. I didn't hate it in highschool. There is a difference... or rather, there should be a difference. I think most of the things I learn in highschool is definitely useful. Not all, of course, but it's rare when it's everything would be useful. But there is no reason why a electrical engineer needs to know what time and date that Hitler attacked Austria. I'm not against a general knowledge course that covers some of this and some of that, but it should not be concentrated and then forced upon you.

When it's enforced, it's not enrichment, it's cramming. I don't even cram for these tests for the most part but I know pretty much everyone else does. Everything that was shoved in your face does not enrich you because they are something you are learning for that one time period and then you forget. If you don't believe me, youtube "stop women suffrage." I'm almost certain everyone asked has been "enriched" in the way you are suggesting.

And why I say that it's fine when you are in primary school, secondary, high school is because often in those times you have not decided or have not had enough knowledge to decide for yourself truly what you want to do. But when you're in college you often have a goal already in mind, and when you don't you will take classes to see if they are somethign you are interested in.

@ Freddy

I'm not talking about it in a conspiratorial sense that it's a not a democracy. It's just the truth, what we have is a democratic republic, the republic part of it is the bigger part. Sure, citizens vote, but they vote people into republic offices as their representatives, who then votes on laws on their behalf.

As for what you said for rights being taken for granted. I completely agree. But the way you said it before sounded like that sort of manipulation that happens in media and government. Also, it seems like our representatives in offices are probably thinking just that.

I don't know about that racist thing though I do agree with you for the most part. I think most racism happens when people are offended unnecessarily or if they are influenced by others, mainly their communities. I don't have any statistics to really back that up, but that is what it seems like to me.

I personally say racist stuff all the time, to friends, because for the most part they know I don't have any racial intentions behind them. But I think most blacks are taught of their enslavement and they take it to heart even though we should be past that and they get a sense of entitlement. Many of them, in turn say racist things to other people. One example was this one guy on my school bus back in high school who called me a chink, if I had retaliated in a racial manner, people would get on my ass but not his. I'm not trying to say all blacks are like this, but it does seem to be the majority of them ones I've met.

Now on to ignorance. Like I've said I have nothing about learning about general knowledge... but it should be general, not how these general education classes I've taken. We should learn how wars started, and why it's bad and how it ended, things like that. Or why this book or that book is considered good. But the classes I've taken teaches the Eiffel tower was built in this year, and Hitler committed suicide on this day at this second after this happen of this year. No one will remember that, unless they were REALLY interested. I admit that I was somewhat interested and I did look into these things, but not to the details that was taught, because I know it's not some I need to know.

Finally, I agree that people shouldn't be ignorant because it's bad. But when you do not intend to step into that field, you are alright. Politics is definitely not my field, but I am somewhat interested, which is why I do look things up. I don't try bring up things I have no clue about, it may happen (I'm not perfect), but I tend to try to stay away from things that doesn't interest me or I have no knowledge about.

I might've missed some things, feel free to point them out.

@ Flame

I agree... but I do like talking about politics every now and then, regardless of how it turns out. Much like video game arguments... I just don't like it when people say one thing then another and when pointed out they ignore it and still press on because then... they are just trolling. I also tend not to get too frustrated about these things, or so I try.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: TheouAegis on November 14, 2011, 08:24:32 PM
Here's one plus side to college general courses, or what could be construed as general courses (History 101 isn't a general course if you're a history major  :-X): No nationalistic bullcrap. Sure, you might get a steadfastly patriotic professor, but you may also get a real historian who won't feed you full of pro-American propaganda. I had one professor, she was pretty cool, albeit a bit odd, who had us read "War Without Mercy" (about how the war trials of WWII were racially biased against the Japanese and more lenient toward the Germans) and taught us about research that suggested the atomic bombs weren't about stopping the war, but rather about using Japan as a proving ground -- that the atom bomb wasn't a fluke. Colleges teach that Columbus was a douchebag or that Russians valued vodka over rations at times during WWII (makes sense too, if you think about the situations). High school textbooks were always written to glorify the US. Hell, I never even knew the Pledge of Allegiance wasn't required until I was in college.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Kale on November 14, 2011, 08:58:18 PM
That is true about highschool glorifying US more... but then again... I always did think that how school works is retarded.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Mooning Freddy on November 15, 2011, 07:27:55 AM
@Jorge

Well, hahaha, he was asking for that, wasn't he?

@Kale

Nice arguments. It's a good debate. Sometimes I make points and miss the other one's points. But then again I like to argue. And I'm an asshole.

@TheouAegis

Oh, boy. Historical lessons about the war are so often one sided.  Ever try to discuss WW2 (or like they call it, The Great Patriotic War) with Russians? You would hear tales of Russian heroism and incredible courage. What they won't tell you about are the great atrocities and war crimes committed by Stalin, many of which were so gruesome that they can be compared to the crimes of Hitler's third Reich.
Even today, when the Soviet Union is in the past, modern Russia still refuses to publicly apologize to Poland for the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact which divided Poland between The Union and the Nazis. Russians being the bad guys? Oh no! That never happened!
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: TheouAegis on November 15, 2011, 06:30:12 PM
IKR. Three or four chapters on the European campaign (of which one page was pre-US involvement). Six pages about the battles of Midway, Iwo Jima and the Marshall Islands. One or two paragraphs about Japanese-American internment camps. No mention of Japanese-American soldiers. Maybe a paragraph about African-American troops. One page on Fat Man and Little Boy alone. Two chapters on their aftermath. One chapter dedicated to Nuremberg. One sentence on the Tokyo Trials. Allied forces combated Axis forces in North Africa and Middle Eastern factions in Iraq. Wait, where was that in the book?!

That's a generalized breakdown of WWII coverage in high school text books. ... And odds are it's probably not too far off.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: thernz on November 15, 2011, 07:11:29 PM
really shouldn't expect much from a generalized history course
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Arma on November 17, 2011, 06:25:58 AM
I was out getting a burger yesterday when I ran into a Finnish guy I know named Peklo Putkimies, whom I thought was a decent enough guy. I asked him to eat with me so we could talk about the coldness. But instead, he just glared at me and said "I know you stole my water hose, and frankly I don't like your kind." There had been a rash of thefts near our village, so I understand his frustration. However, the last bit was very, very uncalled for.

Have you ever been actively discrimated against, and how did you deal with it?

This may sound like an stupid question but what he tried to imply with that? from my point of view it could have been racism or maybe he meant "your kind" like the "thief kind" trying to reiterate you're a thief rather than refering to your race.

The guy may be hysterical for all the robberies but that doesn't mean he gets the freedom to bully his neighbors like that, he's a douche and you should ignore him from now on. That's what I usually do with the brainless, they don't deserve attention, nor even a filthy look. It's not a good idea to acknowledge their existence, it makes them happy and encourages them lol
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Donvermicelli on November 23, 2011, 01:31:02 AM
This may sound like an stupid question but what he tried to imply with that? from my point of view it could have been racism or maybe he meant "your kind" like the "thief kind" trying to reiterate you're a thief rather than refering to your race.

The guy may be hysterical for all the robberies but that doesn't mean he gets the freedom to bully his neighbors like that, he's a douche and you should ignore him from now on. That's what I usually do with the brainless, they don't deserve attention, nor even a filthy look. It's not a good idea to acknowledge their existence, it makes them happy and encourages them lol

You do realize that what you do is also a form of ignorance? It's not like he will stop existing when you don't look at him.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Arma on November 23, 2011, 05:21:26 AM
That's not the point at all, obviously I know they're not going to dissappear just because I'm ignoring them, I'm not a newborn thinking someone's hiding just because I'm covering my eyes.

The idea is to ignore these people provocations so you don't get yourself into unnecessary fights. That's it.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Donvermicelli on November 23, 2011, 06:45:47 PM
Well that is true, I got a different impression from your post  :P
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: X on November 24, 2011, 10:25:48 AM
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I was out getting a burger yesterday when I ran into a Finnish guy I know named Peklo Putkimies, whom I thought was a decent enough guy. I asked him to eat with me so we could talk about the coldness. But instead, he just glared at me and said "I know you stole my water hose, and frankly I don't like your kind." There had been a rash of thefts near our village, so I understand his frustration. However, the last bit was very, very uncalled for.

Sounds like this fellow here needs some serious discipline in his life followed by deportation (in my mind anyways). You invited him out for a friendly get-together and he treats you like a natural-born criminal without even a shred of evidence to back up his claim or wanting an explination. Maybe you should forcibly sit this guy down and have a chat with him whether he wants to or not. It also sounds like his parents spared the rod thus spoiling the child (him) as he's throwing a tantrum about his stolen water hose and can't wait to blame the first person he sees. However if he's deliberately targeted you for his anger and frustrations then you have every right to act to defend yourself. This Finnish guy needs to be brought back to reality rather then living in his own convenient, concocted fantasy. Some here may disagree with me on this, but I feel that this guy needs a really good life's lesson. If you even wanted to you could get the police to lean on this guy too. Tell them word for word everything he said to you and they just might be the intensive this guy needs to "Grow up" a little. You don't need to take this s**t lying down. Do what you feel you need to.
Title: Re: How do you deal with being prejudiced against?
Post by: Dracula9 on December 05, 2011, 06:59:13 AM
I laugh it off if I find the given subject amusing or otherwise ignore it completely. If it's not my family or friends, I completely lack a shit in which to give. I mean, really, what point is there in getting angry or upset when group X says, "I don't like you for reasons X, Y, Z, so instead of acting like a mature adult and understanding that people are different and not everyone will meet my standards, I'm going to act like a child and single you out or otherwise attempt to hurt you," because 99.99% of the time, nothing will change how they feel or act at that given time. Now, in the future, they may grow up a little or whatever the case may be, but for the time being, why get upset over the unchangeable? It's like locking the door after all your stuff's already been stolen; there's just no point in it.