Topic: What do you believe is true the devil or the ego

[beingthehero]

As a kid, there was a short time I thought vampires were real.

I thought you still do...

[Kale]

As a kid, there was a short time I thought vampires were real.

So, you don't believe that the devil exist. That's great? Others do. I hear a lot about people shoving their religions in others faces, but you know, atheists do the exact same thing, and possibly more than Christians do it. And of course both people belittle the other as if either can prove or disprove it. Can christians/jews/muslim prove God/Allah exist? Probably not. Can Atheist prove that they don't? Probably not.

So it's best not to make fun of people belief by belittling it with stupid "humorous" analogies.

[Mooning Freddy]

On one of my courses, I was required to read about Egoism in the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. It was quite an interesting read.

The most interesting part about it was the issue of Psychological Egoism. It's basically a psychological argument that ALL actions people perform in their lives are ultimately selfish. According the basic idea, altruism is a made-up concept that does not truly exist in life, as for every altruistic action that a man does he receives something in return. Be it friendship, gratitude, or even the most basic good feeling of doing a good deed. They set the most extreme example of altruistic action- a soldier covering a grenade with his body to save his friends. In principle, he cannot receive any gratitude for this action of self-sacrifice.
Nevertheless, Psychological Egoism claims his action is egoistic because by doing that the soldier avoids the shame in not doing it.

So you see, if everything we do is egoistic, does the devil really matter? lol...
Also, those are great, I really love those:

(click to show/hide)

[Abnormal Freak]

And of course both people belittle the other as if either can prove or disprove it. Can christians/jews/muslim prove God/Allah exist? Probably not. Can Atheist prove that they don't? Probably not.

That's the funniest thing about it: God can neither be proven nor disproven with the use of science and so forth, so it amuses me to find people argue that it's a scientific fact that God does not exist, as if they can use mathematics to see beyond the reaches of space and see that God is not there. If you're certain in your own personal life that God does not exist, fine; but stating it's an indisputable fact? Come now. The human mind is so finite, it couldn't possibly understand everything pertaining to life and the universe.

[A-Yty]

Makes no difference whether or not God exists.

[uzo]

Makes no difference whether or not God exists.

This is exactly right. Jesus' teachings stand on their own, even without the religious component as a fall back.

[crisis]

Michael Scott about God

debate over lol


but seriously, can God make a stone that is so heavy, that He cannot lift it?


I personally believe that there is some order to the universe, and that there is a higher state of existence that we will experience after this life on earth. A "universal consciousness," so to speak.

[uzo]

God always seems to work within the rules of this universe when he does intervene.

[Belmont Stakes]

My whole thing about this is simply this. If there is an agent of malevolence if he was perfect at one time what would cause him to go out of that state. The Fallen Angel did not have a devil of his own. So some would say pride or arrogance. But the problem is he was made perfect (another thing that seems to be confusing). I think there maybe a clue in the story of Narcissus. As he was an admirer of his own beauty and in as such it caused his death. I have seen an ape look at it's reflection and treat the reflection as an rival primate but after a while the animal recognizes (at least seemingly) that the rival animal it sees is itself. In as such it starts grooming itself. I also want to point out that there are a lot of physical ailments in the world but mental ones seem to still be looked on as the person is a bad seed and has a behavioral problem. If such is the case then fine but how one or more than one changes the behavior is what seems to be getting put to the back burner. Think about the laptop shooting dad's daughter. Is it wrong to say that in regards to anti social behavior that anyone of us could have ended up a psychopath? Are we more moral or just lucky?

[Abnormal Freak]

Depends on how you would define being made "perfect." God doesn't make ugly or evil creations. But sentient beings He gives a choice to live out their lives as they choose. Defying God has its consequences, but people can do it all the same.

And that's what I mean by saying the devil isn't necessarily the force that makes people evil; evil comes out of a person's own heart and/or a desire to go against God. Lucifer wanted to be like God; he was described as the most beautiful angel. As such, he refused to worship God and turned aside, wanting to be worshiped instead. And personally, I couldn't be happier that we live under a God who allows us to decide.

"Sin" and "evil" I would define as disobedience toward God and going against/defying Him, respectively.

[Lumi Kløvstad]

I believe that the Adversary is as real as any of us, and often he will use the ego as his sword.

Lucifer's fall is a puzzling story, as Angels are not said to possess free will (being a gift God uniquely gave to mankind). Ergo, Lucifer's fall plays into the Divine Plan in a manner I believe we as a people do not understand, nor are we particularly meant to.

For my part, I believe that facing temptation, and then overcoming it through our strength of will, makes us grow spiritually in a manner that would not otherwise occur if all we could choose was to do what God said. In that sense, Lucifer's temptations create a trial to be endured, and by doing so, we become stronger, better, and more enlightened, and therefore closer to who we are meant to be.

This is a subject I'm very passionate and intellectual about, and I love to discuss it, but for the sake of the thread, I'll keep this reply as long as it is, and no longer.

[uzo]

I couldn't be happier that we live under a God who allows us to decide.

And welcomes us back when we screw up.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

Makes no difference whether or not God exists.

This is what I believe.
God's existence or lack thereof does not change the good I do for myself.  I don't do it to get into a heaven after I die, and I don't do it because I'm 'God-Fearing'.
However, if a higher being/power does exist, I think it would be pleased with the kind of person I am.

I am an Agnostic.

[TheouAegis]

What I don't understand is why everyone pushes Christianity, Catholicism, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism or Hindu in everyone else' face, and yet nobody's pushing Zoroaster's teachings. That came even before Christianity and explains where evil comes from. There's a good god and there's a bad god. Simple as that. No benevolent God with his tree-hugging son and flammable breath, nor malevolent devil bent on corrupting mankind. Well, the devil's in Zoroastrianism too, but Ahriman is much cooler than Satan.

And I don't believe in Lucifer. I read the excerpts from the Bible. Even logically it's a mistranslation or an awkward translation of a bad transliteration. If you believe in Lucifer, there's no reason to think Nyarlothep didn't write the Bible, because those passages read just like an HP Lovecraft story.

[Abnormal Freak]

Lucifer's fall is a puzzling story, as Angels are not said to possess free will (being a gift God uniquely gave to mankind).

To my knowledge (and feel free to bring up an example if it exists), nowhere in canonical Scripture does it state this.

Jude 1:6 says, "And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day." Or as the KJV puts it, "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

They left their home. Willingly. Leaving what was made for them, where they belong, to dwell unnaturally elsewhere.

There is a strange quality, however, where angels in heaven gladly and willingly and obediently do God's will and worship Him without exception; I imagine there's no doubt or disobedience in them. How could Lucifer have become so prideful and then taken down a third of the angels with him? It's hard to say. But the fallen angels have no means of salvation, and the angels in heaven have no need for saving grace.

One thing Scripture would seem to imply is that the angels would love to spread the gospel to man (that Christ died for the sins of all and was raised up), but are not allowed to, being a work of the Holy Spirit in man. I Peter 1:12 says, "It was revealed to them [the prophets] that they were not serving themselves, but you, in these things which now have been announced to you through those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things into which angels long to look."

I've heard it said that this could mean they're looking down and wondering why Christians aren't being more busy in spreading the good news. The angels desire to do so, long to, and yet are unable. That's a privilege that God gave only to men and women.