Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: limonpower on October 23, 2014, 05:56:39 PM
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I just finished HoD, and absolutely loved it, I got 200% of the castle and found all the furniture. I just got CotM and people seem to think it's better. I am only at the second bits, and don't get me wrong, I enjoy it, but just not as much as HoD. Please explain why HoD is generally disliked.
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Ugly sprites, odd music style, Juste looks like Alucard. I think that's the major points I see talked about.
I personally like HoD, and really appreciate it's background design as the best of the GBA Trilogy by far, and maybe even the best of the handhelds period. There's a lot of nice architecture and unique backgrounds that remind me of Symphony's structure.
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Personally I didn´t dislike it. Is a good game, and among the best for the GBA. I think that the main complaint is when you compare the other two games with HoD, in music terms mainly, ´cause the graphics are very good.
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I will say what I think to be the problem for who dislike it:
-It tries too hard to be a portable SOTN.
-Colors, it was made very bright because at the time GBA SP didn't existed and people disliked that they cant see properly the game in CotM, so they choose to give a "aura" to some enemies and playable character and brighten all colors, but then when GBA SP and Nintendo DS came out, it was too bright and people complained about that.
-Playable characters sprites aren't well made if compared to all the rest of the game.
-Music quality is outdated, also if you mix it with the dissonance style of music then a lot of people wont appreciate it since they cant decipher or simply doesn't like it.
-Enemies and save rooms tries to be identical to SOTN counterparts, also portals do that too.
-Bestiary without description
-Juste is like Alucard and even leaves a after-shadow.
-When you get your first magic book, you hardly will use hearts after that.
-Lack of difficulty, sure you can die, but there is a plenty of ways to destroy enemies very fast, even more if you have money to spend on mana potions.
Things like that. Since I know all of those flaws (some aren't really flaws and are even nitpicking from people) and still likes this game to the point of it being one of my favorites if not THE favorite, I must really love it lol
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For myself I just really disliked the level designs. As well as the songs as they sounded in the game, say what you will about the actual quality of the compositions. But that's me.
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when it was released, i bought a gameboy micro just to play it
i can see why some ppl dislike it. as a whole, its not a very inviting game for newcomers. if u are unfamiliar with the series & gameplay its very easy to get lost in the castle & give up (i admit even i got lost several times & had to consult a guide on what to do next)
yes it does feel like a diet symphony. i can see why they made it like that cuz symphony is so revered & critically acclaimed, of course they'd want to emulate that (and circle of the moon also sold a shitload of copies, being the first to emulate symphony). i recall seeing juste portrait the day it was revealed on the internet & immediately thinking "alucard." nowadays i can easily point out the differences between the 2 artworks but that was just very 1st impression, cant change that
so yeah, ppl dislike it cuz it tries too hard to be symphony, whereas ppl like it cuz it reminds them of symphony. if that makes sense lol. to each their own
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I think people dislike it because it very clearly tried to emulate SotN, from harvesting Dracula's organs to even parts of the castle layout (oh hey the final battle takes place in a square room in a pit in the center of the castle), but isn't dark enough in tone to really sell it. Colors, dialogue, etc. It just doesn't quite get that Gothic atmosphere that SotN had.
Not that I'm in that majority, though. I very much like Harmony...I just like CotM and Aria better.
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It's not a bad game by any means. In fact it has really cool things in it but as others have said Aria and Circle were better
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I don't mind the music quality, actually. People say it gets annoying when you listen to it for a while, but I have that more with music that uses FM synthesis, like Bloodlines or Adventure Rebirth.
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I always found it bizarre when people compare Juste to Alucard but give Trevor strongly resembling Simon a pass.
I also like how people accuse it of being a SotN 'rip-off' because of graphical similarities (can you even rip-off your own series?) when HoD's team was mostly SotN's team plus some of Rondo's peeps.
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People dont know what they want, when HoDespair was announced for the first time, everyone was jumping in joy thinking it was a HoD remake or sequel :P
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The reasons stated above are what I disliked about HoD. Yeah the music should have been given a better composition however the quality had to take the hit due to other things in the game the got precedence. Juste's look is what really gets to me though. It's too much like Alucard. From the pale complexion and white hair, to his leaving behind an aura whenever he moved. The castle was also a bizarre construct. I too had to check out a walkthrough because I couldn't seem to locate Dracula's heart, and I never even noticed the breakable wall in the save room eventhough I've been there a ton of times. But like others have also said, the background graphics are good. Some of them even surpass AoS's designs. Overall HoD tries to be something it's not; A SotN clone. It should have been it's own thing right from the start.
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Just an interesting thing I thought I'd share with you. The music sounds really awesome if you put it through an SGM soundfont and re-arrange the music to be symphonic and what not.
Run the attached midi through this midi to mp3 conversion and make sure the "SOUNDFONT" says SGM v2.01
http://solmire.com/ (http://solmire.com/)
With midis, you can either have the preset sound you normally have on the computer, or run it through a soundfont software making the instruments sound totally awesome! I did also re-arrange it to match that of a symphony set up as best I could ^^.
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Why are you promoting SolMiRe for MIDI sharing? Those asshats don't allow MIDI downloads.
And no offense intended, but this is nothing new. Jorge's been doing exactly this for quite some time now. Except I believe he relies more on the Unison soundfont than the SGM soundfont.
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The floaty jumping is enough to take the game down a notch or two. Juste's run cycle is also the worst animation out of any CV character, including John Morris. At least you have both shoulder buttons for dashing so that helps make the controls a little more bearable.
I'm replaying all three GBA games and HOD to me is easily the worst of them. I've played all of them through several times and HOD gets really tedious with its stale area designs and two castles. With SOTN you at least had an upside-down second castle to switch things up, HOD just feels like you're having to explore the exact same area twice. Cool the first time or so, but on repeated playthroughs, the game gets much less interesting.
Those are my major complaints with the game.
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First half of the game is ok, but when you have to start looking for Drac's body parts it becomes tedious and boring.
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I personally like the game, but the dashing could have been better done (AKA dash-jumping)
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I've always liked Harmony of Dissonance. It's not perfect, and I don't like it as much as some of the other CVs, but it's still a really good game. What's funny is that it was very well received when it came out, by critics and also by the CVDF crowd. Everyone talked about how it was so much better than Circle of the Moon, although the music got a lot of criticism even then. I'm not sure when it was that people started hating on Harmony. It was sometime between the release of Aria of Sorrow and Dawn of Sorrow.
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I'm not sure when it was that people started hating on Harmony. It was sometime between the release of Aria of Sorrow and Dawn of Sorrow.
It was probably after they replayed it a couple of times, ha ha. I thought it was great when it came out but hooooly cow is it a chore to get through now.
COTM was always the better game in my book and it still is. AOS felt like the real successor to SOTN then and now. Loving playing through that right now. I've put HOD on the backburner for the time being.
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It is like I said PFG9000, people doesnt seems to know what they want. Same thing happened with the N64 titles but inverted, until they launched LoS.
But I dont think that someone here hates it, it only doesnt seems to be on their top list.
About Dracula's body parts, it was never a problem to me, since I get the first one using the Ice Punch to reach one in the beggining of the game. :P
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Wow, its weird to see all these people hating on HOD now, I could have sworn when this game first came out the ONLY complaints that where being thrown around where the music not being that good and the castle b concept being unneeded.
Now I see people listing all kinds of other things.
One thing in particular I don't agree with is the Alucard comparison.....so because he looks similar to Alucard this automatically makes it lose value?
But like beingthehero said its ok when CV3 did the exact same thing by having Trevor look pretty darn similar to Simon?
It did not do its "own thing" so why must that be required here?
CV3 was pretty much CV1 with added gimmick of differing paths and character switching, the same could be said for AOS and HOD in comparison to SOTN.
Its not really ripping off when they are part of the series, if it works well than it works well, Alucard is a popular character and SOTN was a critically acclaimed game, its should be perfectly ok with them wanting to adapt a somewhat handheld version of it through HOD sharing some similarities to it such as Juste resembling Alcuard for example.
But I honestly loved the game, the only thing I did not like about it was the music, it could have been a much better experience with better music rather than the mess that we got.
Otherwise I liked pretty much everything else about the game.
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Castlevania Harmony of Dissonance - Boss Max Slimer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSZFNFFSO7k#)
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I dont have a problem with this boss, but I dont see how someone could die at this boss if they were at full health.
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This is pure conjecture but it makes me wonder why it seems people are less happy with HoD today. I know I also feel a little more harshly toward it too, but not by a lot.
What is going through my mind as I'm reading this thread in regards to that question is, maybe it's because the fanbase grew. Lets explore a potential scenario. CotM and HoD were bringing in more people into the franchise. This is backed up by CotM's crazy high sales figures, and most of the new fans from CotM would check out HoD as a result of it being the next new game. But then, maybe they started discovering other games, like say Symphony. At that point your view of HoD is going to worsen in comparison to the ridiculous quality of SotN. It may have seemed amazing without seeing other games before it. It's also known that many existing fans compared it to Symphony a lot. This would make the new fans look up SotN even more when it's being talked about in reference to the game they just played: HoD.
There's just my initial thoughts on the thing.
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One thing in particular I don't agree with is the Alucard comparison.....so because he looks similar to Alucard this automatically makes it lose value?
Yep, because he's not only "similar", he's pratically a copypasta wielding a whip. His face looks like Alucard's. He was designed (much like the whole game) to be a handheld sotn. This is the problem, and makes the cashcow too obvious.
But like beingthehero said its ok when CV3 did the exact same thing by having Trevor look pretty darn similar to Simon?
And that's where "similar" and "copypasta" get their difference. Juste has no need to be so much like Alucard, and not even hardware allowed for it, but the artist has demonstrated that she can design an entirelly original character (even if she suffers from "same face syndrome" a little). Trevor and Simon? Both in a hardware with limited space and limited creative capacity, where only a small team (relative to HoD's team) of people worked, and where games had to be churned out fast with limited resources. The theming on the artworks had to be consistent to attract a fanbase to a game that didn't have such a big following yet, and just a while ago had a terrible entry in the franchise (Simon's Quest).
There's also an interesting point here: Trevor's sprite might look similar to Simon's (as pixel artist myself, I agree with this TO AN EXTENT, as I find that both are indeed drastically different, but keep a "theme"), and Juste's sprite might look drastically different from Alucard's, but back then they had to keep the "medieval barbarian" appearance on the artworks to attract customers since they did not have such a following yet, and the identity was already established. Juste's case is simply cash cow.
"Oh but your argument works with Juste too! They had to do it to attract customers!"
Yeah, before anyone says this, I'll turn your sights to Soma, who looks nothing like Alucard, yet has a giant fanbase himself, without needing to actually LOOK like a cashcow. Creating an Alucard copypasta was surely a way to attract customers by using Alucard's legacy, but it made the cashcow extremelly obvious, which detracts from the game's quality.
And even before Hod or Aria, Circle of the Moon added enough of a different spin to the "SotN" formula for it to be considered better than HoD.
CV3 was pretty much CV1 with added gimmick of differing paths and character switching, the same could be said for AOS and HOD in comparison to SOTN.
Except that, again, for that time, switching characters was a big thing for such a limited game, and each character made the game a different experience. Now you couldn't ONLY play as a whip wielding barbarian, but ALSO with a magic tank, a wall crawling pirate AND a character that can turn into a bat and fights similarly like Dracula.
The same can't be said for HOD when it copies everything from SotN, down to Alucard's face, but makes Juste a Belmont, now witnessed numerous times.
Times change, and more creativity is required as progression is made. You can't ask people to be lenient with HOD "because CVIII did it first". Different times, different creativities. CVIII improved on the formula on it's time, while HoD didn't.
Its not really ripping off when they are part of the series, if it works well than it works well, Alucard is a popular character and SOTN was a critically acclaimed game, its should be perfectly ok with them wanting to adapt a somewhat handheld version of it through HOD sharing some similarities to it such as Juste resembling Alcuard for example.
Except that Aria of Sorrow is much more well accepted than HoD. Can you point out why is that? I'll give you a hint: It actually improves on SotN's foundation instead of merely copying it.
And you say "sharing some similarities" as if it was not such a big deal. Even the Save Room tries to be SotN's save room, dude. If they wanted Alucard to be in the game, why not freaking make the character be Alucard? It looks like they are making a blatant copy, but saying "No no no we're NOT copying! Of course, 80% of the game's content is BLATANTLY copied from SotN with no creativity at all, but it's NOT a copy". This is one of the factors that make the game so bad: It wants to be something while telling you it doesn't.
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butthurt rant
Sorry but all I'm seeing is a butthurt rant that is just making excuses with the whole "the time being different" worn out argument.
Fact remains that HOD is getting flake for being to similar to its predecessor CVSOTN while CV3 is not.
Juste is only aesthetically simiar to Alucard in face, hair, and the fact that he has a dash when he runs.
Fact its its only on the surface of things.
Everything else about the guy is different right down to the to his clothes to his whip wielding and witch related spells.
There is enough of a change to him to hardly call it a simple "copy and paste".
Soma is more close to a copy and paste of Alucard than he is given his gameplay aspect of swords and dark dracula related magic collecting.
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@theplottwist: You forgot that they added speelbooks, that was new.
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Even more butthurt rant
I was explaining the point about the time which, no matter how much you claim "butthurt", is true. Times change, and it requires developers to get increasingly creative. I'm sorry you can't understand that.
Instead of actually dismissing your entire response, I'll respond to it:
Sorry but all I'm seeing is a butthurt rant who is just making excuses with the whole "the time being different" worn out argument.
It's worn out, but it doesn't make it false. Time DOES change, and fanbase DOES change with it. You can't simply expect that something that worked 10 years ago will work again today if you're not original with it.
Fact remains that HOD is getting flake for being to similar to its predecessor CVSOTN while CV3 is not.
[Worn out time argument, that even being worn out doesn't make it false]
Besides as I explained above, it's not "similar" (you like decreasing the "copypasta" factor to make your point). It's copypasta. Juste's character design is Alucard wearing red with a whip. The castle's design looks like SotN's. Equipment format feels like SotN's. Two Castle concept from SotN (and they managed to make it SHITTIER on HoD). Save Room like SotN's. Teleport room like SotN's. I'm not even meaning that "It looks like SotN" in an "Aria of Sorrow" sense, where the system is the same, but the looks is different. I mean that it is copypasta. If they could have added the spinning coffin to the save room, they would.
Maxim mode feels more original than the game itself.
Juste is only aesthetically simiar to Alucard in face, hair, and the fact that he has a dash when he runs.
Fairly enough, he could dash foward, which I found pretty nifty. Still, it's like I'm playing with Alucard wielding a whip. Why not make him into Alucard with a whip at once? At least Mirror of Fate was more honest with this issue.
And it's not so much Juste himself, but the whole game screams "SOTN!" on your face. The issue is the game, not only Juste.
Everything else about the guy is different right down to the to his clothes to his whip wielding and witch related spells.
The game could've more of this "different right down to..." and less of "copypasta from SotN", don't you agree? The elements lifted directly from SotN overshadow the "different" things. There are many different things, but many similar ones , and more than enough copypasta ones. The copypasta ones, unfortunatelly, are game-defining elements. This is the problem.
There is enough of a change to him to hardly call it a simple "copy and paste".
Yeah, so lets call him "Richter Belmont that looks like Alucard, but can't slide jump". Now thinking about it... He DOES feel like a Richter-Alucard fusion straight from some bad fanfiction!
Well, as I said above, the problem is not only with Juste. The game's whole aesthetic drips SotN.
Soma is more close to a copy and paste of Alucard than he is given his gameplay aspect of swords and dark dracula related magic collecting.
Yeah! Remember how Alucard could collect EVERY SINGLE SOUL from his enemies, and use three at the same time PLUS his equipment, pratically changing the gameplay drastically in some of these combinations? Remember how Alucard had an overhead arching attack using heavy swords that could catch overhead enemies? And that time when Alucard could use firearms?
I will grant you this, but you're ignoring that the problem is the aesthetic, and not so much the gameplay. Juste was a Belmont that could equip things, and forgetting Simon's limited equip system on CVII, and Nathan, he was the first to actually be a Belmont that could equip things and make for a cool twist.
The problem here is AESTHETIC. A Metroidvania's formula, on its base, speaks about equiping your character to explore an giant map. There is not much you can do about it besides changing its aesthetic and improving level design. This is where HoD failed critically.
It has a second castle that is just like the first, with minor changing details, and an uglier palette. If you ask about Order of Ecclesia, people say that the game is good, but some things that detract from it are the copypasta levels. Now, imagine a game where an ENTIRE second castle is a copypasta.
And the aesthetics... Well, no need to mention.
You forgot that they added speelbooks, that was new.
Alucard had his fair share of magic, in many forms, that make the spellbook system look like a "rehash" of the same thing, to me.
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Yeah! Remember how Alucard could collect EVERY SINGLE SOUL from his enemies, and use three at the same time PLUS his equipment, pratically changing the gameplay drastically in some of these combinations? Remember how Alucard had an overhead arching attack using heavy swords that could catch overhead enemies? And that time when Alucard could use firearms?
I
Sarcasm doesn't suit this situation since you obviously missed the point and misconstrued what I was saying,
I did not say they where EXACTLY the same on all levels, only that Soma was more akin to Alucard than Juste is considering his gameplay is pretty darn similar, something many big name sites as well as fans make note of as well.
True Alucard did not have a "soul system" like Soma did (although he did have a soul steal ability), but everything else about Soma is pretty darn similar to Alucard from the kind of weapons he can collect to the type of armor and items he can find in the castle.
Does not matter if it expanded upon what symphony did with its new soul system, the fact remains that the game still felt very darn similar to SOTN in every other aspect, even more so then HOD.
That being said I'm not saying its a bad thing that It did that, but I felt the need to point out the double standards I'm seeing all around these days to throw hate at certain games, the game this time being HOD for it being to much like SOTN.
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One more thing: Am I the only person who thinks the HoD music was good? Of course the compression quality wasn't the best, but the composure was amazing.
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Sarcasm doesn't suit this situation since you obviously missed the point and misconstrued what I was saying,
I did not say they where EXACTLY the same on all levels, only that Soma was more akin to Alucard than Juste is considering his gameplay is pretty darn similar, something many big name sites as well as fans make note of as well.
True Alucard did not have a "soul system" like Soma did (although he did have a soul steal ability), but everything else about Soma is pretty darn similar to Alucard from the kind of weapons he can collect to the type of armor and items he can find in the castle.
Does not matter if it expanded upon what symphony did with its new soul system, the fact remains that the game still felt very darn similar to SOTN in every other aspect, even more so then HOD.
That being said I'm not saying its a bad thing that It did that, but I felt the need to point out the double standards I'm seeing all around these days to throw hate at certain games, the game this time being HOD for it being to much like SOTN.
Did you read the rest, under the sarcasm, where I agree with you?
The main issue I have with your argument is that you pretend that HoD looks nothing like SotN, where 80% of it does, even the map layout, that not while 100% identical, carries strikingly similar portions of it, both in layout and level detailing.
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Alucard had his fair share of magic, in many forms, that make the spellbook system look like a "rehash" of the same thing, to me.
Even so you didnt mentioned it. Also these speelbooks works in a different way, since you dont use a motion and you need to equip it. Its more a "rehash" from DSS card system than Alucard magic, since Alucard could use spells anytime without equipping or enabling anything.
But even so, spellbooks changed effects based on your sub-weapon, a thing that isn't in your inventory to choose, so you needed to explore to change it, while with DSS you only needed to collect cards once. But oh, wait, a "thing" that enemies drops and you collect once and it will be forever with you, its like the Tactical Souls system from AoS, but primitive. Instead of cards, its souls, and they gave each enemy a different one, so it isnt 100% a idea that came on AoS too.
Also
I will grant you this, but you're ignoring that the problem is the aesthetic, and not so much the gameplay. Juste was a Belmont that could equip things, and forgetting Simon's limited equip system on CVII, and Nathan, he was the first to actually be a Belmont that could equip things and make for a cool twist.
Why? Because its convenient? In every Metroidvania the main character could equip things, so thats only natural that he would too. Castle B was obviouly a attempt to mimic the inverted castle, but its also like what they do on Silent Hill bizarre world, its creepy and have that "different aura" and they atleast gave a good explanation in the story, while there is none to why there is a Inverted Castlevania floating above another Castlevania.
Im being impartial here, I could point a lot of flaws in a game that I still love the same and pointing facts that even harm my argument, so please, if I can ask, dont look at only one side of the coin. Like in HoD, you need to explore the 2 sides to progress ;)
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I enjoyed it, and loved someo f the areas(Skeleton Cave is probably my favorite, and I love how some of it has a really HR Giger look to it). Though, to be quite honest, I would've liked it a WHOLE lot more if it was a direct follow-up to SotN, on home consoles(with just as much graphic detail and sound quality). ;)
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The main issue I have with your argument is that you pretend that HoD looks nothing like SotN, where 80% of it does, even the map layout, that not while 100% identical, carries strikingly similar portions of it, both in layout and level detailing.
And did you read the part of my post where I note that there is enough different about the game to hardly call it a simple copy and paste?
I never denied to the contrary, only said that you simply can not call it a copy and paste game given traits the game has going for it apart from SOTN.
That is the problem I'm having with you now, your sitting here calling this game bad for being to similar to SOTN while giving praise to AOS despite the fact that it has just as much in common with SOTN than the game you are being so critical of.
AOS has the soul system to mainly differentiate itself from SOTN while HOD has the whip based focused combat and spell books.
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Why? Because its convenient?
Nope. Because Juste was the first to be a whip user with a decent equip system, even though it was directly lifted from SotN.
Don't play me silly, Lelygax. If I wanted to intentionally overlook Simon and Nathan, I'd simply not mention them at all. But their equip system is terrible, and they are whip users, thus this is a point in favor of Juste, not against..
In every Metroidvania the main character could equip things, so thats only natural that he would too. Castle B was obviouly a attempt to mimic the inverted castle, but its also like what they do on Silent Hill bizarre world, its creepy and have that "different aura" and they atleast gave a good explanation in the story, while there is none to why there is a Inverted Castlevania floating above another Castlevania.
That's why I excluded Simon and Nathan from the mention, since they were bad equipment systems for whip users. For Simon because it was an archaic system, and for Nathan because it is limited when the hardware allows for a better thing (without mentioning the quite small and uninventive inventory of the game).
And about the castle, well... Story doesn't excuse bad gimmicks, and IGA already stated that he works gimmicks first, and story last. The story in this game will never justify why the second castle is a copypasta from the first beyond "Fake Longevity".
Since IGA got this out of the way, both castles are on the same "storyless" level (meaning that they both had no story-intent, Symphony's because it hadn't for whatever reason, and HoD's because IGA said so). Going by this, I think it's pretty safe to say that HoD's is the poor-man-that-must-deliver-a-long-game's copy from SotN's idea, but shittier.
Im being impartial here, I could point a lot of flaws in a game that I still love the same and pointing facts that even harm my argument, so please, if I can ask, dont look at only one side of the coin. Like in HoD, you need to explore the 2 sides to progress ;)
I honestly think you're not being impartial. Not only you, but also DarkPrinceAlucard.
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I honestly think you're not being impartial. Not only you, but also DarkPrinceAlucard.
Lol on the contrary, I feel you are holding clear double standards here, faulting one game for being to similar to the other while giving another a pass and even praise.
Your making excuses here and there to veil this double standard but its obviously still there.
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And did you read the part of my post where I note that there is enough different about the game to hardly call it a simple copy and paste?
I did, and pointed out why the argument doesn't work, including pointing out that it does have many differences, but the similarities are way too glaring to overlook. The intent to make this into a handheld SotN is obvious and shameless, and this is one of the reasons why the game is not very well received.
I never denied to the contrary, only said that you simply can not call it a copy and paste game given traits the game has going for it apart from SOTN.
If you exclude all the similarities and glaring copypasting, of course only the differences will remain, right?
That is the problem I'm having with you now, your sitting here calling this game bad for being to similar to SOTN while giving praise to AOS despite the fact that it has just as much in common with SOTN than the game you are being so critical of.
It has much in common in mechanics, as expected from metroidvanias, much like I mentioned, and Lelygax mentioned. But the aesthetic shouldn't be so obvious, and that's where AoS and CotM stands above HoD.
AOS has the soul system to mainly differentiate itself from SOTN while HOD has the whip based focused combat and spell books.
And I agree, that's why I said that the gameplay is not so much the problem, whereas the aesthetics are the real issue. Too much lifted straight from SotN, aesthetics wise, which makes you think that you're playing SotN, where Alucard wields a whip.
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Lol on the contrary, I feel you are holding clear double standards here, faulting one game for being to similar to the other while giving another a pass and even praise.
Your making excuses here and there to veil this double standard but its obviously still there.
Well dude, if you dismiss valid arguments ("mimimi time is a worn out argument and I won't explain why, it is because I say so mimimi!"), you can think anything you want, no? Already explained the point. Can't teach you to read.
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And I agree, that's why I said that the gameplay is not so much the problem, whereas the aesthetics are the real issue. Too much lifted straight from SotN, aesthetics wise, which makes you think that you're playing SotN, where Alucard wields a whip.
But you can use that very same argument for AOS.
Put Alucard in that game and simply add a storyline mechanic of Alucard unlocking new levels of dark power now has a soul system and you have a game that would pretty much be SOTN in 2035.
Soma has equipment as well as abilities that could very easily fit Alucard like a glove in AOS and no one would notice a difference.
But you get Alucard swinging a whip around and people would think to the contrary.
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Can't teach you to read.
And I can't teach you to pull your head out of your a$$.
If you want to take it there to insults than by all means.
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And I can't teach you to pull your head out of your a$$.
If you want to take it there to insults than by all means.
I'm not insulting you. I explained the time argument three times now, and it's valid. Some things worked before, some things won't work now, simply because one of the major factors is that things change over time. What you did to defeat it? "It's worn out because I say so", and proceeded to state the same thing as if the argument didn't exist. You lead me to deduce that you either can't read, or is dishonest. I prefer to believe that you can't read, but if you want to dress up the "dishonest" accusation, I'll gladly call you accordingly next time.
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Alright guys, enough is enough. Either agree to disagree or take it to the PMs. I already have enough of a headache dealing with stuff in my life, now I have to watch you guys have a petty squabble? Fucking. Quit. It.
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I'm not insulting you. I explained the time argument three times now, and it's valid. Some things worked before, some things won't work now, simply because one of the major factors is that things change over time. What you did to defeat it? "It's worn out because I say so", and proceeded to state the same thing as if the argument didn't exist. You lead me to deduce that you either can't read, or is dishonest. I prefer to believe that you can't read, but if you want to dress up the "dishonest" accusation, I'll gladly call you accordingly next time.
And I disagree with what you said and see it as nothing more than excuses, that just my way of looking at your actions here of blasting HOD for being similar to SOTN but praising AOS.
Its not so much as me not reading your posts or being dishonest, its me seeing you for what I honestly feel your doing here, which is keeping a double standard firm in place.
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Goddammit, did you just skip over my post? TAKE IT TO THE PMS OR JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP. Jeez.
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But you can use that very same argument for AOS.
Yeah can I? Tell me how many things on AoS are aesthetically similar to SotN, enough to surpass HoD. I'm open to change my mind.
Put Alucard in that game and simply add a storyline mechanic of Alucard unlocking new levels of dark power now has a soul system and you have a game that would pretty much be SOTN in 2035.
Put Alucard in HoD and give him a whip and... Oh, it's already been done.
Soma has equipment as well as abilities that could very easily fit Alucard like a glove in AOS and no one would notice a difference.
But you get Alucard swinging a whip around and people would think to the contrary.
And that's a metroidvania base mechanic. Already explained that this is not the issue with this game, but does aggravate the "similarity" issue.
Besides, give Alucard a whip and you have HoD.
For your "Soma is just like Alucard" argument to work, you have to redraw the character ground up. For the "Juste is just like Alucard" argument to work, you just have to give Alucard a whip.
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And I disagree with what you said and see it as nothing more than excuses, that just my way of looking at your actions here of blasting HOD for being similar to SOTN but praising AOS.
Its not so much as me not reading your posts or being dishonest, its me seeing you for what I honestly feel your doing here, which is keeping a double standard firm in place.
Did you even fucking see what VTC posted? If you did, I suggest you end the argument before a mod(s) has to get involved.
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Nope. Because Juste was the first to be a whip user with a decent equip system, even though it was directly lifted from SotN.
Don't play me silly, Lelygax. If I wanted to intentionally overlook Simon and Nathan, I'd simply not mention them at all. But their equip system is terrible, and they are whip users, thus this is a point in favor of Juste, not against..
That's why I excluded Simon and Nathan from the mention, since they were bad equipment systems for whip users. For Simon because it was an archaic system, and for Nathan because it is limited when the hardware allows for a better thing (without mentioning the quite small and uninventive inventory of the game).
I agree, partially.
And about the castle, well... Story doesn't excuse bad gimmicks, and IGA already stated that he works gimmicks first, and story last. The story in this game will never justify why the second castle is a copypasta from the first beyond "Fake Longevity".
Since IGA got this out of the way, both castles are on the same "storyless" level (meaning that they both had no story-intent, Symphony's because it hadn't for whatever reason, and HoD's because IGA said so). Going by this, I think it's pretty safe to say that HoD's is the poor-man-that-must-deliver-a-long-game's copy from SotN's idea, but shittier.
We receive the end product, so what matter is what we got. Sure, it is a copy of Castle A, but this time they gave a purpose and explanation to it. They could have done this in SotN too, but they simply ignored it as if it was completely normal to the series (well, CV is know for plotholes too xD).
I honestly think you're not being impartial. Not only you, but also DarkPrinceAlucard.
So I dont know how to change your view, since I was one of the first to say what people dislike in this game and showing a lot of flaws. Im being impartial in a way that I will show flaws instead of hide it, but I will say about the good things too :)
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Goddammit, did you just skip over my post? TAKE IT TO THE PMS OR JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP. Jeez.
I was actually in the middle of posting a reply to your post, but you coming and and telling me to shut the fuck up is only going to make me tell you to SHUT THE FUCK UP.
One thing you will learn about me is that I don't respond kindly to be told to shut the fuck up by ANYONE.
Show me the proper respect and I will do you the same.
Now on to your post I was in the middle of replying to.
I already have enough of a headache dealing with stuff in my life, now I have to watch you guys have a petty squabble? Fucking. Quit. It.
Just want to point out that you can always ignore and report us man, you don't have to deal with it if you are honestly having this much of a bad day.
But I simply find it hard to agree to disagree when someone keeps on challenging my points and views on things, I can't help but defend those views.
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Did you even fucking see what VTC posted? If you did, I suggest you end the argument before a mod(s) has to get involved.
Read my above post, I was already in the middle of posting when he made that reply.
Don't get snappy with me.
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And I disagree with what you said and see it as nothing more than excuses, that just my way of looking at your actions here of blasting HOD for being similar to SOTN but praising AOS.
Its not so much as me not reading your posts or being dishonest, its me seeing you for what I honestly feel your doing here, which is keeping a double standard firm in place.
Well then, according to your logic, no one can ever evidence that HoD is just like SotN, down to aesthetics, because the main argument used is, according to you, "an excuse".
Arguing it's an "excuse" doesn't make it an excuse, you have to demonstrate how it's an excuse. You haven't. You call it an excuse, and expect your opponent to swallow it. This is called "dishonesty", just pointing it out.
Goddammit, did you just skip over my post? TAKE IT TO THE PMS OR JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP. Jeez.
Same reason as DarkPrinceAlucard above. This is also my last reply on the matter.
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Hey guys, please calm down. We are here to talk about the game, not to throw insults, why we couldnt continue like minutes ago and debate respectuflly? :-\
(inb4, please nothing about pointing fingers or mods will be irritated for sure, its obvious lol)
We dont need to stop if we continue to do it right.
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*sigh* i'm done here, I've grown tired of this,
Now we have people coming in all raging and butthurt trying to attack us.
The thing is I was in the middle of making a reply when that initial post from Vlad was posted so I did not see it, and yet he decided to be a douche and rage out.
And ZeroSaberGreen did not help one bit with his snappy remarks.
I'm tired it this, peace.
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I'll have to apologize for snapping there. It's just that instead of a prim & proper argument, you guys were calling each other names and shit. Now, if it were a civil argument I'd let it slide, but you guys had to start getting immature and paint yourselves a bull's-eye for my pent up frustrations.
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I'll have to apologize for snapping there. It's just that instead of a prim & proper argument, you guys were calling each other names and shit. Now, if it were a civil argument I'd let it slide, but you guys had to start getting immature and paint yourselves a bull's-eye for my pent up frustrations.
Just want to explain myself and then I'm done, but it only got that way once he said the "I can't teach you to read" part.
I saw that as a insult and threw one back.
After that however it got back to a debate on differing views that while somewhat heated was free of name calling.
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i love reading a good debate, but u guys are catching feelings over nothing
its all good bros, why so serious? always remember, nobody can get u mad/annoyed/frustrated without your consent
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Well, I think that atleast now "limonpower" have a lot of answers.
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Wow, its weird to see all these people hating on HOD now
Criticizing a game for its faults != hating on it.
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Criticizing a game for its faults != hating on it.
Faults by who's definition though?
Some of these so called "faults" are purely subjective and in some cases are not even considered faults by other fans such as the main one me and theplottwist have been debating about such as one of its faults of being to similar to CVSOTN.
Lol everytime I try to leave a topic alone someone just has to pull me back in, well bring it on man.
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Just so you know, I'm more or less primed to report this thread to Jorge in case it goes badly again.
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I'm too lazy to catch up and read all 4 pages of posts, but the reason I didn't like it at first is because I came straight from playing CotM to playing HoDissonance. The initial "look"of CotM seemed darker(which felt like a CV game) and the music sounded better in CotM, and HoD felt like a step back. I can literally remember saying something like, "I know this could be better! Why is it so bright? Why is the music awful? It sounds like it's coming from busted speakers! If CotM could look and sound like it did, why did they change that to something like this that looks and sounds worse?"
I played the game and beat it, since I'd already owned it by that point, and kept it to add to my collection. Didn't touch it for years, but replayed others. Finally, I came back to it, and I like it much more now. There is still a good bit of darkness in the game, even if the colors are rainbow-bright ;-P ...and the music is kinda good too -- there is an interesting harmony in the dissonance of the sounds. I still think they could have made it look and sound a little nicer, but I also have come to find some enjoyment in what's there.
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Holy hell, I didn't realize there were 4+ pages of this shit when I made my last reply, lol.
I see one or two people who mentioned it being similar to SOTN being a problem, then now I see two people bickering back and forth about it as if everybody felt that way. This thread got silly.
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Ok, let's settle this by two people punching each other repeatedly, and depending one who is the last one standing, it is decided if HoD is a SotN clone or not.
Or if you're not that mad about someone having a differing opinion than you on a video game forum, talk about normally or just agree to disagree. It appears the situation has been settled already, but if people can't behave decently I'm going to lock this thread.
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I don't really see the comparisons to SOTN myself. HOD was the first IGA Metroidvania since SOTN, so obviously it's going to have a certain familiar quality to it. At the time it was really exciting because yeah, the guy was back in the game. It just didn't feel as rich and satisfying to me as COTM did, although its background are indeed lush and beautiful and those giant lanky-armed armor guys are super cool.
The dislike of the music is understandable, although I think it sounds all right, and underneath all that mess are some wonderful compositions. Not as immediately poppy as other CV soundtracks, but it's pretty complex and interesting.
If anything, AOS feels far more like SOTN than HOD does. It was the first Metroidvania to really feel like the one that spawned the sub-series. Soma controls like Alucard (except he doesn't have a down-forward slash which bugs me), he uses swords, he has a backwards dash maneuver, he doesn't float all over the place the way Juste does, and the excellent graphics and music just look and feel so much more like this was the true successor. And that's a good thing: it being like SOTN—to date the uncontested best of its sub-series—is what propelled it to being perhaps the best of the GBA trilogy (although I sometimes go back and forth between it and COTM).
HOD's similarities to SOTN are fairly superficial. Juste's portrait looking like Alucard's doesn't amount to anything within the gameplay, especially since his sprite and movements don't resemble Alucard in the slightest. He uses a whip and you can't switch it out for something else. There's two castles, OK, that's similar, but HOD surprisingly feels more lazy and retread-y. Warp rooms? Why would you want a Metroidvania without them? That's as basic a function as leveling up. Grabbing Drac's body parts, you do that in Simon's Quest as well, so what.
Between HOD and AOS ("hod aos," huh-huh), the latter is by far the one that resembles SOTN the most, and again, it's a positive rather than a detriment.
As I mentioned before, a lot of people's (I'm talking friends of mine, YouTube reviews, Kalata in his HG101 book, etc., not necessarily users on this board) problems with HOD are the floaty controls and the samey feeling of the two castles. It just doesn't hold up over time as well as AOS and COTM do, IMO.
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Its like I've said on the beggining, I was giving info of why people dislike it, not why ME/WE dislike it :P
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My only issue for the game is the 8-bit-ish music, Juste's floaty jump when he attacks and the bosses are way too easy/predictable.
IMO graphically-wise along with aria of Sorrow, it has a better quality than the rest of Igavania's I mean their sprites was made from scratch instead of reusing existing sprites from the previous games, yes they were look redrawn from SOTN or Rondo of course but still not recycled.
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I wasn't too fond of Castle B either. I mean...in the long run, I was glad it was there and I wouldn't get rid of it, but it felt cheesier than the inverted castle. I don't know why...an upside down castle is probably more silly than a "parallel dimension" -like one. I can't remember for sure at the moment, but I think it was recolored while SotN wasn't...and the way the castles were connected was neat (though I think that could have been used a bit more and/or better than it was). SotN was first to do it though, and -- to me -- the inverted castle felt more "new" and "different" than the parallel one. I like both though...I'm generally glad for gimmicks like that to make play last longer.
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...The fuck happened in here? That's the last time I go two days without checking the boards.
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Why are you promoting SolMiRe for MIDI sharing? Those asshats don't allow MIDI downloads.
And no offense intended, but this is nothing new. Jorge's been doing exactly this for quite some time now. Except I believe he relies more on the Unison soundfont than the SGM soundfont.
promoting?....huh? I'm confused. I don't know what you mean. All you do is download my midi, and then click browse to look for the midi you got from me, then it'll convert it if you don't have a sound font converter already.
But if you guys have the SGM soundfont already in your computer, I use Coolsoft virtual soundfont. I've never heard of Unison Soundfont ^o^ I'll have to try it out and hear if that'll make my arrangements sound better.
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I think people dislike it because it very clearly tried to emulate SotN, from harvesting Dracula's organs to even parts of the castle layout
Except in Sotn you weren't actually harvesting his organs to resurrect him. It just happened to be coincidence that when you collected those body parts/ relics, the final boss door opens. In HoD Juste was resurrecting Dracula, and this is evident in his final form.
If anything, AOS feels far more like SOTN than HOD does. It was the first Metroidvania to really feel like the one that spawned the sub-series. Soma controls like Alucard (except he doesn't have a down-forward slash which bugs me), he uses swords, he has a backwards dash maneuver, he doesn't float all over the place the way Juste does, and the excellent graphics and music just look and feel so much more like this was the true successor.
I agree that AOS feels more like SOTN overall. Alucard is quite floaty in comparison with Soma, but he has much more let's say 'gravity' than Juste.
I think HoD was a solid entry at the time. For me, although the musical quality wasn't great but the Castle Keep track is one which really captures the gothic feel of CV and still feels 'creepy'. Dare I say that post AoS, the creepy aspect was all but gone even from the 2d entries.
I'm not over the moon about a castle with 2 layers, but I thought the castle itself was well designed and fun. The only thing with HoD is that it's the easiest in the series by far, unfortunately there should have been a crazy hard mode included, because it certainly merits this.
All this talk of Juste/ Alucard, but does any one not think Juste and Leon resemble one another? (along with Maxime and Grant)
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Except in Sotn you weren't actually harvesting his organs to resurrect him. It just happened to be coincidence that when you collected those body parts/ relics, the final boss door opens. In HoD Juste was resurrecting Dracula, and this is evident in his final form.
I'm aware. But HoD mimics a lot of gameplay elements that SotN had. I don't mean themes, I meant strictly aesthetical elements. Sorry, should've clarified.
And no, Juste doesn't look like Leon because Juste is the product of Trevor and Alucard having magic babies at the end of CV3. Likewise, Maxim is Trevor and Grant. Harmony of Dissonance is a paradox of spacetime narrating the events of two separate lives so that they ran together, because spacetime does what it wants. Harmony is "what would happen is retconned baby A and retconned baby B grew up together?" and fits accordingly.
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Unfortunately, I'm one of those people who isn't a big fan of HoD. It is the easily the worst of the GBA/DS titles for me. I bought it at release and remember feeling very let down that it looked and sounded so much worse than COTM, which I was a big fan of. Other than Juste's main theme/castle entrance theme, I don't really like any of the music in HoD. Some of it is actually unpleasant to me and I'd rather it not even be there. Juste looking like Alucard isn't a huge deal for me, even if it is a bit "Hey, look, it's like Symphony!". The characters/story weren't really that interesting for me, either. I played the game to completion once, and haven't gone back ever since.
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I'm aware. But HoD mimics a lot of gameplay elements that SotN had. I don't mean themes, I meant strictly aesthetical elements. Sorry, should've clarified.
And no, Juste doesn't look like Leon because Juste is the product of Trevor and Alucard having magic babies at the end of CV3. Likewise, Maxim is Trevor and Grant. Harmony of Dissonance is a paradox of spacetime narrating the events of two separate lives so that they ran together, because spacetime does what it wants. Harmony is "what would happen is retconned baby A and retconned baby B grew up together?" and fits accordingly.
So the merchant is Trevor and himself alone asexually magic baby.
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In HoD Juste was resurrecting Dracula, and this is evident in his final form.
Not quite. Juste had collected all the body parts in the game, however it was Maxim that first collected them in order to grant his wish. Not sure what that wish was about as it is never followed up. It might have been wanting to become stronger then Juste so he could relieve him of his fate as a hunter. Who knows. It was coincidental that the evil spirit created by Maxim's will coupled with Dracula's remains, sensed the body parts Juste had on him and used them to create itself a new body to inhibit. Hence the Dracula wraith.
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Maxim didn't collect them to get a wish as though Dracula was some sort of genie. His 'wish' was to be better than Juste and destroy Dracula. Of course only a Belmont or Alucard can safely handle Drac's remains without getting possessed by Drac. Shanoa seemed to be the oddball in that she could somehow carry them as well, but that's why she was so valuable to Barlowe.
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I really enjoy Harmony of Dissonance. It does have flaws, like being way too easy, but I think it's the best "intro" Castlevania, meaning that it's probably the best one for new players to start with.
It also has two of my favorite themes: "Successor of Fate" and "Offense and Defense." (Thank you Jorge, for your great remixes.)
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Not quite. Juste had collected all the body parts in the game, however it was Maxim that first collected them in order to grant his wish. Not sure what that wish was about as it is never followed up. It might have been wanting to become stronger then Juste so he could relieve him of his fate as a hunter. Who knows. It was coincidental that the evil spirit created by Maxim's will coupled with Dracula's remains, sensed the body parts Juste had on him and used them to create itself a new body to inhibit. Hence the Dracula wraith.
I understand but I'm saying in his final form, Dracula's physiognomy is comprised of the organs collected by Juste.
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Unfortunately, I'm one of those people who isn't a big fan of HoD. It is the easily the worst of the GBA/DS titles for me. I bought it at release and remember feeling very let down that it looked and sounded so much worse than COTM, which I was a big fan of. Other than Juste's main theme/castle entrance theme, I don't really like any of the music in HoD. Some of it is actually unpleasant to me and I'd rather it not even be there. Juste looking like Alucard isn't a huge deal for me, even if it is a bit "Hey, look, it's like Symphony!". The characters/story weren't really that interesting for me, either. I played the game to completion once, and haven't gone back ever since.
Could you clarify how Harmony of Dissonance looks much worse than Circle of the Moon? I think the general consensus is that it looks much better. In fact, the high quality graphics are often used as the reason the sound quality took such a hit. I understand Harmony is brighter, but if you compare Harmony to Circle on the original, non-backlit GBA, I think Harmony looks much better. Because you can hardly see Circle on the original GBA unless you're sitting right under a strong light source.
I've always thought Harmony has the best graphics of the three GBA Castlevanias. They scaled the graphics down a bit for Aria, but in doing so they struck a great balance between graphics and sound quality.
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I understand but I'm saying in his final form, Dracula's physiognomy is comprised of the organs collected by Juste.
Oh definitely that of course. That was a weird looking final form.
Maxim didn't collect them to get a wish as though Dracula was some sort of genie.
Not sure where this conclusion came from but it's not what I meant in my post.
His 'wish' was to be better than Juste and destroy Dracula.
This is what I meant. Sorry if it wasn't clear.
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Could you clarify how Harmony of Dissonance looks much worse than Circle of the Moon? I think the general consensus is that it looks much better. In fact, the high quality graphics are often used as the reason the sound quality took such a hit. I understand Harmony is brighter, but if you compare Harmony to Circle on the original, non-backlit GBA, I think Harmony looks much better. Because you can hardly see Circle on the original GBA unless you're sitting right under a strong light source.
I've always thought Harmony has the best graphics of the three GBA Castlevanias. They scaled the graphics down a bit for Aria, but in doing so they struck a great balance between graphics and sound quality.
Your post is taking me back... waaaaay back. I remember being so psyched for COTM and buying a gba. I had this massive fluorescent tube light in my bedroom, and only under this light could COTM be seen clearly with no relection. (possibly the only place in the world) There were those crappy lights they used to sell at retailers that hooked around the screen with 2 light bulbs, man they were terrible - all they did was reflect light off the screen!
HoD probably had the most vibrant colours, but I would not say the graphics were better than AOS. For one thing the sprites were smaller, and less detailed. Juste also has that horrible outline around him,
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Maybe it's just the brightness that makes people say they're worse? (or the outline! I liked the shadow/echo thing, but the outline...UGH!)
For a short time I had what I felt was a really good light for the GBA (it somehow made it more like a backlit screen), but then I got a GBA SP which was even better. Either way, I never felt like I was struggling to see what was on my GBA/SP screen, and liked the look of CotM best...and really, comparing the three GBA titles, I'd still pick CotM as best in my opinion. Throw in the DS titles though, and I think OoE may have it beat!
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Man I don't understand "SOTN clone" as a negative point. In a perfect world we would have TONS of SOTN clones and they would battle each other for supremacy =)
A proper SOTN clone would be a great thing. But HoD only has the framework, and pretty much nothing of what made SOTN great.
I remember when COTM came out everyone was ecstatic because we'd FINALLY get a new SOTN! After playing the game, it turned out to be a much more straight forward, linear game, disguised as a metroidvania, and a lot of people were disappointed by that, myself included (I've later learned to appreciate the game for what it is, one of the best portable CV's in fact).
So when HOD followed up on COTM, history repeated - THIS would be the SOTN "sequel" we had been waiting for. So I don't mind it coming across as a "clone". And I really liked the smooth controls with a button for each dash direction, but as a whole the game was just extremely repetitive and uninteresting in its design, and the complete lack of any kind of challenge resulted in no real memorable moments from the game.
It's by no means a bad game, but looking back at it today, I'd say HOD is without a doubt the worst of the handheld Castlevania games. Every game since HOD has been an improvement of the formula, and COTM was an incredible one off for what it was.