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Offline Dremn

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Re: Why does the majority seem to dislike Harmony of Dissonance?
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2014, 08:28:06 AM »
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First half of the game is ok, but when you have to start looking for Drac's body parts it becomes tedious and boring.


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Re: Why does the majority seem to dislike Harmony of Dissonance?
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2014, 01:05:05 PM »
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I personally like the game, but the dashing could have been better done (AKA dash-jumping)
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Offline PFG9000

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Re: Why does the majority seem to dislike Harmony of Dissonance?
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2014, 02:12:16 PM »
+1
I've always liked Harmony of Dissonance.  It's not perfect, and I don't like it as much as some of the other CVs, but it's still a really good game.  What's funny is that it was very well received when it came out, by critics and also by the CVDF crowd.  Everyone talked about how it was so much better than Circle of the Moon, although the music got a lot of criticism even then.  I'm not sure when it was that people started hating on Harmony.  It was sometime between the release of Aria of Sorrow and Dawn of Sorrow.

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Re: Why does the majority seem to dislike Harmony of Dissonance?
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2014, 02:23:41 PM »
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I'm not sure when it was that people started hating on Harmony.  It was sometime between the release of Aria of Sorrow and Dawn of Sorrow.

It was probably after they replayed it a couple of times, ha ha. I thought it was great when it came out but hooooly cow is it a chore to get through now.

COTM was always the better game in my book and it still is. AOS felt like the real successor to SOTN then and now. Loving playing through that right now. I've put HOD on the backburner for the time being.
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Offline Lelygax

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Re: Why does the majority seem to dislike Harmony of Dissonance?
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2014, 02:24:20 PM »
0
It is like I said PFG9000, people doesnt seems to know what they want. Same thing happened with the N64 titles but inverted, until they launched LoS.

But I dont think that someone here hates it, it only doesnt seems to be on their top list.

About Dracula's body parts, it was never a problem to me, since I get the first one using the Ice Punch to reach one in the beggining of the game. :P
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Offline DarkPrinceAlucard

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Re: Why does the majority seem to dislike Harmony of Dissonance?
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2014, 03:39:23 PM »
0
Wow, its weird to see all these people hating on HOD now, I could have sworn when this game first came out the ONLY complaints that where being thrown around where the music not being that good and the castle b concept being unneeded.

Now I see people listing all kinds of other things.

One thing in particular I don't agree with is the Alucard comparison.....so because he looks similar to Alucard this automatically makes it lose value?

But like beingthehero said its ok when CV3 did the exact same thing by having Trevor look pretty darn similar to Simon?

It did not do its "own thing" so why must that be required here?

CV3 was pretty much CV1 with added gimmick of differing paths and character switching, the same could be said for AOS and HOD in comparison to SOTN.

Its not really ripping off when they are part of the series, if it works well than it works well, Alucard is a popular character and SOTN was a critically acclaimed game, its should be perfectly ok with them wanting to adapt a somewhat handheld version of it through HOD sharing some similarities to it such as Juste resembling Alcuard for example.

But I honestly loved the game, the only thing I did not like about it was the music, it could have been a much better experience with better music rather than the mess that we got.

Otherwise I liked pretty much everything else about the game.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 03:55:43 PM by DarkPrinceAlucard »


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Offline crisis

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Re: Why does the majority seem to dislike Harmony of Dissonance?
« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2014, 04:24:11 PM »
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I dont have a problem with this boss, but I dont see how someone could die at this boss if they were at full health.
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Offline uzo

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Re: Why does the majority seem to dislike Harmony of Dissonance?
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2014, 05:09:16 PM »
0
This is pure conjecture but it makes me wonder why it seems people are less happy with HoD today. I know I also feel a little more harshly toward it too, but not by a lot.

What is going through my mind as I'm reading this thread in regards to that question is, maybe it's because the fanbase grew. Lets explore a potential scenario. CotM and HoD were bringing in more people into the franchise. This is backed up by CotM's crazy high sales figures, and most of the new fans from CotM would check out HoD as a result of it being the next new game. But then, maybe they started discovering other games, like say Symphony. At that point your view of HoD is going to worsen in comparison to the ridiculous quality of SotN. It may have seemed amazing without seeing other games before it. It's also known that many existing fans compared it to Symphony a lot. This would make the new fans look up SotN even more when it's being talked about in reference to the game they just played: HoD.

There's just my initial thoughts on the thing.

Offline theplottwist

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Re: Why does the majority seem to dislike Harmony of Dissonance?
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2014, 05:11:33 PM »
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One thing in particular I don't agree with is the Alucard comparison.....so because he looks similar to Alucard this automatically makes it lose value?

Yep, because he's not only "similar", he's pratically a copypasta wielding a whip. His face looks like Alucard's. He was designed (much like the whole game) to be a handheld sotn. This is the problem, and makes the cashcow too obvious.

Quote
But like beingthehero said its ok when CV3 did the exact same thing by having Trevor look pretty darn similar to Simon?

And that's where "similar" and "copypasta" get their difference. Juste has no need to be so much like Alucard, and not even hardware allowed for it, but the artist has demonstrated that she can design an entirelly original character (even if she suffers from "same face syndrome" a little). Trevor and Simon? Both in a hardware with limited space and limited creative capacity, where only a small team (relative to HoD's team) of people worked, and where games had to be churned out fast with limited resources. The theming on the artworks had to be consistent to attract a fanbase to a game that didn't have such a big following yet, and just a while ago had a terrible entry in the franchise (Simon's Quest).

There's also an interesting point here: Trevor's sprite might look similar to Simon's (as pixel artist myself, I agree with this TO AN EXTENT, as I find that both are indeed drastically different, but keep a "theme"), and Juste's sprite might look drastically different from Alucard's, but back then they had to keep the "medieval barbarian" appearance on the artworks to attract customers since they did not have such a following yet, and the identity was already established. Juste's case is simply cash cow.

"Oh but your argument works with Juste too! They had to do it to attract customers!"

Yeah, before anyone says this, I'll turn your sights to Soma, who looks nothing like Alucard, yet has a giant fanbase himself, without needing to actually LOOK like a cashcow. Creating an Alucard copypasta was surely a way to attract customers by using Alucard's legacy, but it made the cashcow extremelly obvious, which detracts from the game's quality.

And even before Hod or Aria, Circle of the Moon added enough of a different spin to the "SotN" formula for it to be considered better than HoD.

Quote
CV3 was pretty much CV1 with added gimmick of differing paths and character switching, the same could be said for AOS and HOD in comparison to SOTN.

Except that, again, for that time, switching characters was a big thing for such a limited game, and each character made the game a different experience. Now you couldn't ONLY play as a whip wielding barbarian, but ALSO with a magic tank, a wall crawling pirate AND a character that can turn into a bat and fights similarly like Dracula.

The same can't be said for HOD when it copies everything from SotN, down to Alucard's face, but makes Juste a Belmont, now witnessed numerous times.

Times change, and more creativity is required as progression is made. You can't ask people to be lenient with HOD "because CVIII did it first". Different times, different creativities. CVIII improved on the formula on it's time, while HoD didn't.

Quote
Its not really ripping off when they are part of the series, if it works well than it works well, Alucard is a popular character and SOTN was a critically acclaimed game, its should be perfectly ok with them wanting to adapt a somewhat handheld version of it through HOD sharing some similarities to it such as Juste resembling Alcuard for example.

Except that Aria of Sorrow is much more well accepted than HoD. Can you point out why is that? I'll give you a hint: It actually improves on SotN's foundation instead of merely copying it.

And you say "sharing some similarities" as if it was not such a big deal. Even the Save Room tries to be SotN's save room, dude. If they wanted Alucard to be in the game, why not freaking make the character be Alucard? It looks like they are making a blatant copy, but saying "No no no we're NOT copying! Of course, 80% of the game's content is BLATANTLY copied from SotN with no creativity at all, but it's NOT a copy". This is one of the factors that make the game so bad: It wants to be something while telling you it doesn't.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 05:17:11 PM by theplottwist »
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Offline DarkPrinceAlucard

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Re: Why does the majority seem to dislike Harmony of Dissonance?
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2014, 05:20:29 PM »
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butthurt rant

Sorry but all I'm seeing is a butthurt rant that is just making excuses with the whole "the time being different" worn out argument.

Fact remains that HOD is getting flake for being to similar to its predecessor CVSOTN while CV3 is not.

Juste is only aesthetically simiar to Alucard in face, hair, and the fact that he has a dash when he runs.

Fact its its only on the surface of things.

Everything else about the guy is different right down to the to his clothes to his whip wielding and witch related spells.

There is enough of a change to him to hardly call it a simple "copy and paste".

Soma is more close to a copy and paste of Alucard than he is given his gameplay aspect of swords and dark dracula related magic collecting.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 05:41:49 PM by DarkPrinceAlucard »


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Offline Lelygax

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Re: Why does the majority seem to dislike Harmony of Dissonance?
« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2014, 05:48:13 PM »
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@theplottwist: You forgot that they added speelbooks, that was new.
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Offline theplottwist

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Re: Why does the majority seem to dislike Harmony of Dissonance?
« Reply #27 on: October 25, 2014, 05:51:21 PM »
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Even more butthurt rant

I was explaining the point about the time which, no matter how much you claim "butthurt", is true. Times change, and it requires developers to get increasingly creative. I'm sorry you can't understand that.

Instead of actually dismissing your entire response, I'll respond to it:

Quote
Sorry but all I'm seeing is a butthurt rant who is just making excuses with the whole "the time being different" worn out argument.

It's worn out, but it doesn't make it false. Time DOES change, and fanbase DOES change with it. You can't simply expect that something that worked 10 years ago will work again today if you're not original with it.

Quote
Fact remains that HOD is getting flake for being to similar to its predecessor CVSOTN while CV3 is not.

[Worn out time argument, that even being worn out doesn't make it false]

Besides as I explained above, it's not "similar" (you like decreasing the "copypasta" factor to make your point). It's copypasta. Juste's character design is Alucard wearing red with a whip. The castle's design looks like SotN's. Equipment format feels like SotN's. Two Castle concept from SotN (and they managed to make it SHITTIER on HoD). Save Room like SotN's. Teleport room like SotN's. I'm not even meaning that "It looks like SotN" in an "Aria of Sorrow" sense, where the system is the same, but the looks is different. I mean that it is copypasta. If they could have added the spinning coffin to the save room, they would.

Maxim mode feels more original than the game itself.

Quote
Juste is only aesthetically simiar to Alucard in face, hair, and the fact that he has a dash when he runs.

Fairly enough, he could dash foward, which I found pretty nifty. Still, it's like I'm playing with Alucard wielding a whip. Why not make him into Alucard with a whip at once? At least Mirror of Fate was more honest with this issue.

And it's not so much Juste himself, but the whole game screams "SOTN!" on your face. The issue is the game, not only Juste.

Quote
Everything else about the guy is different right down to the to his clothes to his whip wielding and witch related spells.

The game could've more of this "different right down to..." and less of "copypasta from SotN", don't you agree? The elements lifted directly from SotN overshadow the "different" things. There are many different things, but many similar ones , and more than enough copypasta ones. The copypasta ones, unfortunatelly, are game-defining elements. This is the problem.

Quote
There is enough of a change to him to hardly call it a simple "copy and paste".

Yeah, so lets call him "Richter Belmont that looks like Alucard, but can't slide jump". Now thinking about it... He DOES feel like a Richter-Alucard fusion straight from some bad fanfiction!

Well, as I said above, the problem is not only with Juste. The game's whole aesthetic drips SotN.

Quote
Soma is more close to a copy and paste of Alucard than he is given his gameplay aspect of swords and dark dracula related magic collecting.

Yeah! Remember how Alucard could collect EVERY SINGLE SOUL from his enemies, and use three at the same time PLUS his equipment, pratically changing the gameplay drastically in some of these combinations? Remember how Alucard had an overhead arching attack using heavy swords that could catch overhead enemies? And that time when Alucard could use firearms?

I will grant you this, but you're ignoring that the problem is the aesthetic, and not so much the gameplay. Juste was a Belmont that could equip things, and forgetting Simon's limited equip system on CVII, and Nathan, he was the first to actually be a Belmont that could equip things and make for a cool twist.

The problem here is AESTHETIC. A Metroidvania's formula, on its base, speaks about equiping your character to explore an giant map. There is not much you can do about it besides changing its aesthetic and improving level design. This is where HoD failed critically.

It has a second castle that is just like the first, with minor changing details, and an uglier palette. If you ask about Order of Ecclesia, people say that the game is good, but some things that detract from it are the copypasta levels. Now, imagine a game where an ENTIRE second castle is a copypasta.

And the aesthetics... Well, no need to mention.

Quote
You forgot that they added speelbooks, that was new.

Alucard had his fair share of magic, in many forms, that make the spellbook system look like a "rehash" of the same thing, to me.
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Offline DarkPrinceAlucard

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Re: Why does the majority seem to dislike Harmony of Dissonance?
« Reply #28 on: October 25, 2014, 06:12:27 PM »
0


Yeah! Remember how Alucard could collect EVERY SINGLE SOUL from his enemies, and use three at the same time PLUS his equipment, pratically changing the gameplay drastically in some of these combinations? Remember how Alucard had an overhead arching attack using heavy swords that could catch overhead enemies? And that time when Alucard could use firearms?

I

Sarcasm doesn't suit this situation since you obviously missed the point and misconstrued what I was saying,

I did not say they where EXACTLY the same on all levels, only that Soma was more akin to Alucard than Juste is considering his gameplay is pretty darn similar, something many big name sites as well as fans make note of as well.

True Alucard did not have a "soul system" like Soma did (although he did have a soul steal ability), but everything else about Soma is pretty darn similar to Alucard from the kind of weapons he can collect to the type of armor and items he can find in the castle.

Does not matter if it expanded upon what symphony did with its new soul system, the fact remains that the game still felt very darn similar to SOTN in every other aspect, even more so then HOD.

That being said I'm not saying its a bad thing that It did that, but I felt the need to point out the double standards I'm seeing all around these days to throw hate at certain games, the game this time being HOD for it being to much like SOTN.


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Re: Why does the majority seem to dislike Harmony of Dissonance?
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2014, 06:17:58 PM »
+1
One more thing: Am I the only person who thinks the HoD music was good? Of course the compression quality wasn't the best, but the composure was amazing.
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