Topic: Lords of Shadow Sequel Ideas (spoilers...a lot of them)

[Vampire Killer]

Look at it this way (I read this somewhere on this board i think) imagine if only the first 4 Cv's were made 1,2,3, and super 4 and then LoS was made. How would this game hold up as a sequel to those 4 games? Pretty darn good. Everyone keeps throwing around "that castlevania feel" term and in truth this game is more "castlevania" than anything we've had in the past 10 years. LoS reminds me quite a bit of the old games is all I'm saying.

Nailed it. It's like the old school CV's (with overworld map not unlike CV3 and CV4), but with 3D fighting mechanics and an excellent story thrown in to boot. The series had before way to convoluted, and seriously needed to go back to it's roots and be reimagined.  Mecurysteam did this with flying colors imho.

[Mr.Bushido]

http://www.eurogamer.es/articles/mercury-steam-trabaja-en-un-nuevo-castlevania

Oscar Araujo just confirmed that MS is working on a sequel, seems that konami is very happy with LOS

[uzo]

Wow that was quick.

[bobby digital]

Well if they are as receptive to feedback as they seemed to be with some things that changed from LoS's debut, it'd be a good idea to suggest them in that thread

[Nagumo]

How about this.  Look at Lament of Innocence and Lords of Shadow, since they are both supposed to be the "start" of the series.  What makes Lament of Innocence more Castlevania than Lords of Shadow?

I'm too lazy to write something myself so I'm just going to quote from giz 5:36.

the individual differences between the titles - the differences between super castlevania IV and Rondo of Blood, between Symphony of the Night and Portrait of Ruin, between Harmony of Dissonance and Castlevania III were all embellishments; they were not entirely new aesthetics, they consisted of the same aesthetic presented through a different style, a different execution. it's like viewing the same thing through a variety of different perception filters.

castlevania is not necessarily defined by "the things" that it possesses, it is defined by the way in which these things work together and are represented. the monsters, the castle, the protagonist, the flow of the gameplay, the music, the atmosphere; despite being different between every title - in some cases, radically - they all manage to maintain the same kind of base feeling, the same obvious inspiration. just try comparing the music between castlevania III and Symphony of the Night, or Super Castlevania IV and Harmony of Dissonance, Aria of Sorrow, Order of Ecclesia; they're all unique in their own way but - by and large - they all build off of the same kind of innate elements and things. and obviously - as i said above - it isn't just about the music, or the individual elements, its about the way in which all of these things work together. music is just one of the easiest examples of both variation and consistency.

beyond this, there are the central themes that bind the series; which, i will admit in some ways LoS has tried to capitalize upon; of a small force tackling a massive castle full of supernatural monsters (although in every castlevania title nearly all of the monsters have been derived from western classical mythology or "cheese"-goth/horror as viewed through a japanese perspective. i suspect that this is important in establishing the identity, as well;), of grandeur and antiquity combined with a keen sense of the relatively contemporary, of flow, progression and locomotion; the very way in which it treats its subject matter and expresses it, both in a relatively tongue-in-cheek manner and as a legitimate and interesting aesthetic.

these are all pretty broad (yet simultaneously specific??) aspects, and yet LoS just comes completely out of left-field. a reinvention does not have to disregard, it simply has to embrace and embellish. in some ways, the first devil may cry reminds me more of castlevania than lords of shadow has thus far.

in some ways, castlevania lords of shadow has maintained a few of the "things" in castlevania; supernatural monsters, a large castle, a lone dude w/ a whip, but its representation, its execution of these concepts both on their own and in relation to everything else is so radically different and off compared to every other game: it is not about the things, it is not about superficial elements like that, it is about these things within the context of every other thing, of all these things together, of representation, of expression, of execution. of how these things are. 

   

[Valtiel]

Nagumo, that thing you quoted, while respectable as any opinion, isn't very argumentative. All it says is that LoS doesn't feel like Castlevania because it doesn't feel like Castlevania.

I think one needs to bring out some actual argument if they want to have anything more persuasive than "this is how I feel".


As for my opinion:

I think LoS has the disadvantage of being a 3D game. This already puts it in a different context compared to a saga that is historically a 2d side scroller.
On the other hand, not many people complained about LoI not being CV enough; so where is the difference? It could possibly be the fact that LoI was a 3D game that tried to look like an anime, LoS is a 3D game that tries to look like a movie.

Now, this means that LoI is certainly a lot more faithful to the IGAvania side of the franchise. IGA has always pursued anime looks and I feel that the Soma Cruz games are an expression of the fact he was given greater creative freedom at some point (possibly in order to make the saga more popular).
However, was CV always like that?





Now, how would thistranslate in 3d?

Like this:





or like this:






When you look at them, the only mayor visual differences (graphical quality aside) are the character design and LoI being an overall brighter, more anime inspired game. In terms of design, people complain about the platforming in LoS, but LoI had even less. The combat is vastly similar in both games, and I'd be hard pressed to find someone saying LoI had higher quality in that. Monsters? LoS features CV monsters all the way through. You may complain about goblins and spiders I guess, but it's not like LoI or expecially the handheld titles didn't have completely spaced out monsters.


In the end, the point is just your perception. What you feel Castlevania is. If you're fine with having Dracula reincarnating in a white haired college student in 2035 or having a girl in heel-high boots draining souls in 1800s, and feel those games are "Castlevania", but LoS is not, you need to accept your personal perception is influencing your judgement or point at some objective elements that mark a difference.

[Harrycombs]

In the end, the point is just your perception. What you feel Castlevania is. If you're fine with having Dracula reincarnating in a white haired college student in 2035 or having a girl in heel-high boots draining souls in 1800s, and feel those games are "Castlevania", but LoS is not, you need to accept your personal perception is influencing your judgement or point at some objective elements that mark a difference.

Thats really not fair at all. We also have our own perspectives and to us, yes those games feel like Castlevania to us. But they feel that way for a reason. They have similar rhythm and central themes that the early Castlevanias did but also executed them in a fresh way. Aria really is one of the best in the series and I think arguing that liking that game but not respect Lords as a Castlevania game is ridiculous.

Just compare the first 3 chapters of Lords to any other castlevania game. Those chapters feel nothing like any other game in the series. The aesthetics and atmosphere are completely different. Look at CotM and HoD, both had very different perspectives of what the Castle looks and feels like, with CotM being darker and HoD just being chaotic, but they were still built around the same idea, just it was done in very different ways. Lords is almost a complete break from everything we have ever known until around chapter 6. Lords does start feeling more like a Castlevania game later on but large parts of it just feel really foreign.

[OmegaDL50]

Are saying the first 3 chapters are nothing like previous games in the series because of the outside explorable areas are not inside a Castle, or because of it's usage lit areas that took place during the day time.

If it's the former then perhaps I say look into Castlevania II, III, and especially Super Castlevania IV. Which those games featured many diverse locales. Especially Super Castlevania IV which has many outdoor locations such as swamps, dark forests, underground caverns with waterfalls and rivers.

These earlier games had the same slow build up and progression needing to traverse through different locations to get TO the Castle rather then starting in the Castle from the very beginning.

The only aspect of Lords of Shadow that seems completely out of place that all previous games in the series did not have is those Titan Battles. While there was some very large enemies in previous Castlevania games, however nothing at that scale or style that flowed with the gothic / classic horror movie monster formula that is consistent with the majority of enemy designs in the earliest games in the series.

[Nagumo]

I think one needs to bring out some actual argument if they want to have anything more persuasive than "this is how I feel".

Yeah, and that's not what that argument is since its clearly explained.

Are saying the first 3 chapters are nothing like previous games in the series because of the outside explorable areas are not inside a Castle, or because of it's usage lit areas that took place during the day time.

The way these levels were excuted weren't much like previous Castlevania since it relied on high fantasy-styled aesthetics and atmosphere and the series was never about that.       

[Harrycombs]

Are saying the first 3 chapters are nothing like previous games in the series because of the outside explorable areas are not inside a Castle, or because of it's usage lit areas that took place during the day time.

If it's the former then perhaps I say look into Castlevania II, III, and especially Super Castlevania IV. Which those games featured many diverse locales. Especially Super Castlevania IV which has many outdoor locations such as swamps, dark forests, underground caverns with waterfalls and rivers.

None of those games had freaking AZTEC RUINS!

I have played all the games you have mentioned, and I love Super Castlevania 4. But it feels entirely different from them. The levels still feel European, they still have an atmosphere of tension and are gloomy. Look how dark the environments are in the forest level in SCV4 (and I don't just mean lighting, I mean the atmosphere). It is completely different from the first 3 levels of Lords.

That thing that knightmere said about nagumo and opinions & whatnot.

All of Nagumo's views are completely founded. You are blinding yourself to the problems with this game. I was looking forward to this game and went into it with an open mind, and most of the problems that people had with it early on were still in the final game. Until chapter 6 the atmosphere and levels are nothing like any of the previous Castlevania games. Its okay if you like it, but please don't delude yourself into thinking it is similar to the first 4 Castlevania games. Its not, its unique (and it is a good game, but its different).

[DragonSlayr81]

I thin one good theme most castlevania games all carried: Night! Even when you were in areas with no windows to the outside world, it was just a given that, outside, it WAS night, be it you were walking in a corridor in the center of the castle, or miles below in an underground catacomb, it was still night up there! And even though, you'll get some scattered stages throughout the series that take place in dawn or hazy days, night is still the most prominent of times in the series.

[knightmere]

gloomy. Look how dark the environments are in the forest level in SCV4 (and I don't just mean lighting, I mean the atmosphere). It is completely different from the first 3 levels of Lords.

All of Nagumo's views are completely founded. You are blinding yourself to the problems with this game. I was looking forward to this game and went into it with an open mind, and most of the problems that people had with it early on were still in the final game. Until chapter 6 the atmosphere and levels are nothing like any of the previous Castlevania games. Its okay if you like it, but please don't delude yourself into thinking it is similar to the first 4 Castlevania games. Its not, its unique (and it is a good game, but its different).

I never said LoS is like CV 1-4, I don't know where you got that :/

[DarkPrinceAlucard]

That thing knightmere said about successor and a site and opinions.

*facepalm*
how incredibly immature to bad mouth another forum dude.
i like BOTH and bad mouthing another because they don't agree with some of your perspective is pretty lame dude.
could a moderator or admin please handle this?
this is obviosly a flame bait type of post

EDITED by Moderation:
Done, and done, sir.

[Nagumo]

[corneliab]

In context with the game and how it plays out, this is actually very appropriate.