Topic: America's Economy

[SenileSnake]

Yes. Yes I am very sure. The world got along just fine before this 'system' came into being. While the stock market is the foundation of today's economy it certainly isn't the main foundation that was in existence before it was conceived. There have been some positive things done with the stock exchange, however the negative implications outweigh the positive.

are you saying that we should revert to.... antique greece
ok fine i'll shut down the internet.

LOL! I'd love nothing more then to bring down the pharmaceutical companies because of their malpractice on human lives. My Dad would still be alive today had they forked over the cure for cancer years ago when it was discovered. However due to their bulls@#t bureaucracy and greed they still have it locked up and meanwhile we suffer and die.

i'm sorry for your loss, but i have no idea where you are getting this from and flinging around words like bureaucracy and those evil pharmaceutical companies does not validate this. ever heard of glivec. gardasil? cis platin?

this is merely a side note since i was talking about the executing branch of medicine, the common doctor of medicine, the one working at a hospital/practice instead of a lab. but i guess to expand this metaphor to your current argument (everything was better before) i guess we should go back to treating the sick with venosection, amputating with a toolshed saw, and giving cocaine as an anaesthetic. you know, before research and publicly available pharmaceutics where everything was better. and it had no stock market either and everyone with the proper authorization could have his own currency. a lot better.

[X]

this is merely a side note since i was talking about the executing branch of medicine, the common doctor of medicine, the one working at a hospital/practice instead of a lab. but i guess to expand this metaphor to your current argument (everything was better before) i guess we should go back to treating the sick with venosection, amputating with a toolshed saw, and giving cocaine as an anaesthetic. you know, before research and publicly available pharmaceutics where everything was better. and it had no stock market either and everyone with the proper authorization could have his own currency. a lot better.

This is along the lines of Medieval/Renaissance European medicine...if it could be called that. I was referring to ancient medicine practiced in places like Egypt, India, China, etc. Ancient eastern medicine and techniques that even today stand out in it's own sophistication and simplicity and are non-barbaric.

are you saying that we should revert to.... antique greece
ok fine i'll shut down the internet.

I'm not sure where you drew this conclusion from but I can tell you that if the stock market goes, it won't be taking anything else with it. Not even the internet. but it will take away future problems like stock crashes, recessions and those who want to take as much as they can from others i.e. Briex and Enron.

[SenileSnake]

could you stop with your platitudes and be concrete for once. what is "nothing" how does a world without stock market work why do you keep bringing up the BAD PEOPLE. you probably have some idea/concept/understanding of economy to suggest a total revolution of the current situation. i am by no means an economics expert, but i am interested to learn its inner workings.

[X]

I can't tell you what i don't know. In terms of being 'concrete' What you've read is what you get. But since you mentioned about being interested in learning the inner workings of said system, then I can point you to these sites here that talk about it. I did this search just after your reply. I hope this fills in some of the blanks but it's all I can do for now.

http://www.stockmarketinvestinginfo.com/smi_history.html

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/775697.html

[Deko21]

The only thing i can say is today's economy just sucks. A majority of us can't even get jobs because companies are too lazy to train a newbie for a few weeks.

[SenileSnake]

that is a more than valid complaint.

[Flame]

I have to agree... The Stock Market's risks are far too big they outweigh the positives.

You know what the Stock Market basically is? Gambling. You put in money and hope it grows in a gambling machine that goes up and down.

The problem comes in when other countries crash and burn. we feel the heat here too. when US went into a recession, the rest of the world felt it. that should not be. Also, he mentions the bad people because those are the bigwigs who invest in the stock market. before the stock market was made, I cant recall any mentions of depressions and recessions. Can you?

That said, the Stock Market is never going to go anywhere. The most we can do is simply reform reform reform. small reforms, big reforms, anything that can prevent things like the recession from happening again.

You know what big reform needs to be made? No more false wars for profits and interests. Iraq is the biggest embarrassment ever. It was unnecessary, and even other countries saw that. And when France refused to support the US in the war, Capitol hill had a hissyfit and renamed french fires "freedom fries" in the most childish act of upsetness I have ever seen.

[X]

And when France refused to support the US in the war, Capitol hill had a hissyfit and renamed french fires "freedom fries" in the most childish act of upsetness I have ever seen.

What?!? That's the biggest load of ego I have ever heard of since they lost Vietnam! LOL! Freedom fries? Seriously?? Jesus Christ...

[Flame]

Apparently the fries on Capitol hill were renamed  named Freedom Fries.

And French Toast to Freedom Toast

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_fries

On March 11, 2003 Representatives Robert W. Ney (R-Ohio) and Walter B. Jones, Jr. (R-North Carolina) declared that all references to French fries and French toast on the menus of the restaurants and snack bars run by the House of Representatives would be removed. House cafeterias were ordered to rename French fries "freedom fries". This action was carried out without a congressional vote, under the authority of Ney's position as Chairman of the Committee on House Administration, which oversees restaurant operations for the chamber. The simultaneous renaming of French toast to "freedom toast" attracted less attention.

According to a statement released by Ney, this move was intended to express displeasure with France's "continued refusal to stand with their U.S. allies" (see Iraq disarmament crisis). The statement further read: "This action today is a small but symbolic effort to show the strong displeasure many on Capitol Hill have with our so-called ally, France."

Replied the French Embassy-

The Embassy of France in Washington, D.C. made no comment beyond pointing out that French fries come from Belgium. "We are at a very serious moment dealing with very serious issues and we are not focusing on the name you give to potatoes,"

HA.

But they eventually changed them back.

In May 2005, Representative Jones, having arrived at the belief that the United States went to war "with no justification", said of the "freedom fries" episode: "I wish it had never happened." By July 2006, the House had quietly changed the name of the two foods in all of its restaurants back to "French fries" and "French toast".

Seriously though. Sometimes I'm just EMBARRASSED to be an American. 

[Mooning Freddy]

[Renonsgoods]

Seriously though. Sometimes I'm just EMBARRASSED to be an American. 

You base your value as an American citizen on the ignorance and actions of a handful of other Americans?  I feel sad for you.  Every nation has its share of stupids and misguided leaders.  America is no different.

Truth be told, my only sorrow for this country is that money has become the primary road block to average, decent citizens being able to run for public office...thus condemning us all to years of perpetual selections of "the lesser of two evils" when it comes to elections.  Our nation will never get over its current hurdles as long as its under the care of professional politicians...or citizens that feel ashamed to be a part of it.

[Flame]

Because those Ignorant Handful are the image we give off. The Image that the administration of the past 8 years gave was that of a country that involves itself in other countries to "bring democracy" like some sort of superhero binging salvation, under an immense pompous and high and mighty personality. Really? 'Operation Iraqi Freedom' ? What? They never asked for our help. if they wanted they would have revolted themselves eventually, just like the rest of the middle east is doing now. Tunisia, Egypt, etc.

And that when our allies smartly refuse to involve themselves in what everybody knows is a bad Idea and unnecessary, the country has a national hissyfit and throws a tantrum that our "supposed" allies refuse to help us, as if they were the bad guys. They abuse the hurt and sorrow and anger of a national tragedy as an excuse to go to war in a completely unrelated matter, and make it seem like part of the same thing, with what are later proved to be false leads. And any Citizen who doesnt support the idea, is "anti American" and gets shunned and criticized.

Thing is, the past administration pretty much tarnished what the rest of the world, particularly commonfolk just like us, people who just watch the news or read a paper, think about us. As pompous idiots. And fact is, the half that creates this image, is one of the big political parties.

Oh yes, I went there.

the Tea Party doesnt help any either, but they are small and rather insignificant right now.

I have my pride in my country for sure, despite my gripes with it I couldnt imagine life anywhere else, (Maybe Europe, but they have their own small things I dont like- mainly that consumer goods are usually marketed more toward the US and Asia, whereas Europe tends to get neglected...) And I like it here. My whole life is here. But that doesnt mean I cant feel shame, like a disappointed parent, ashamed of their child's huge failures.

of which we have MANY. Mainly the fact that private interests run the country. And that certain people would prefer for the nation to practically return to the industrial revolution, when workers had absolutely no rights, and people lived in bad conditions. cant work? you can quit. Cant afford medical aid? You can die. Its absolutely shameful that we still dont have SOME form of Government funded healthcare program, or some sort of funded College. Why is it that education is only free up untill High School? In Europe, there are public colleges. In Europe, despite the US being the leaders in medical science technology and practice, they have a longer life expectancy. Why? Tjeir health programs are better. They have government funded healthcare, paid for by taxes, which are THEn complimented by private companies which sell extra options not available in the default. Want red trim on your glasses frames? Govt insurance dont cover it? Buy generic insurance brand 1 so you can have red frames when you renew your prescription.

Want a specific something not covered normally? buy generic insurance 2 so you can have it.

Im just rambling now. Its 2:34 AM, I have to be up at 6:30, and I dont think any of this made any sense whatsoever.

ill stop now.

[KaZudra]

Because those Ignorant Handful are the image we give off. The Image that the administration of the past 8 years gave was that of a country that involves itself in other countries to "bring democracy" like some sort of superhero binging salvation, under an immense pompous and high and mighty personality. Really? 'Operation Iraqi Freedom' ? What? They never asked for our help. if they wanted they would have revolted themselves eventually, just like the rest of the middle east is doing now. Tunisia, Egypt, etc.

And that when our allies smartly refuse to involve themselves in what everybody knows is a bad Idea and unnecessary, the country has a national hissyfit and throws a tantrum that our "supposed" allies refuse to help us, as if they were the bad guys. They abuse the hurt and sorrow and anger of a national tragedy as an excuse to go to war in a completely unrelated matter, and make it seem like part of the same thing, with what are later proved to be false leads. And any Citizen who doesnt support the idea, is "anti American" and gets shunned and criticized.

Thing is, the past administration pretty much tarnished what the rest of the world, particularly commonfolk just like us, people who just watch the news or read a paper, think about us. As pompous idiots. And fact is, the half that creates this image, is one of the big political parties.

Oh yes, I went there.

the Tea Party doesnt help any either, but they are small and rather insignificant right now.

I have my pride in my country for sure, despite my gripes with it I couldnt imagine life anywhere else, (Maybe Europe, but they have their own small things I dont like- mainly that consumer goods are usually marketed more toward the US and Asia, whereas Europe tends to get neglected...) And I like it here. My whole life is here. But that doesnt mean I cant feel shame, like a disappointed parent, ashamed of their child's huge failures.

of which we have MANY. Mainly the fact that private interests run the country. And that certain people would prefer for the nation to practically return to the industrial revolution, when workers had absolutely no rights, and people lived in bad conditions. cant work? you can quit. Cant afford medical aid? You can die. Its absolutely shameful that we still dont have SOME form of Government funded healthcare program, or some sort of funded College. Why is it that education is only free up untill High School? In Europe, there are public colleges. In Europe, despite the US being the leaders in medical science technology and practice, they have a longer life expectancy. Why? Tjeir health programs are better. They have government funded healthcare, paid for by taxes, which are THEn complimented by private companies which sell extra options not available in the default. Want red trim on your glasses frames? Govt insurance dont cover it? Buy generic insurance brand 1 so you can have red frames when you renew your prescription.

Want a specific something not covered normally? buy generic insurance 2 so you can have it.

Im just rambling now. Its 2:34 AM, I have to be up at 6:30, and I dont think any of this made any sense whatsoever.

ill stop now.

Wow, usually politics is something always for arguments but I Understand and See Your points, in fact I'm on your side on this whole thing.

[X]

I agree with you too Flame. What America needs to do before it can help the world is to help itself first. In other words; they need to leave foreign policy the HELL alone and clean up their own backyard. Once that's done THEN they can try and help others. But only if said country asks for assistance. A country that let's other countries do their own thing and only helps when asked to, is a responsible country and would be well-liked and respected too. However the only real reasons why I believe America is so involved in the middle east is not so much to bring about democracy. It's to establish a firm control policy on the country's natural resources such as black gold (oil).

[Flame]

Yup. Thats really all Sadam and Iraq was about. He didnt want to deal with the US in oil anymore, So we got rid of him under the pretense of WMD's. The infamous "smoking gun" speech. Colin Powell was given false information on them, and so he made his decisions. Later when the whole thing proved to be a big lie, he had to resign.

or how about that torture and humiliation of prisoners in Guantanamo? (I think it was there) Or a CIA Agents identity being leaked when they disagreed with the way things worked?

Or the patriot act? Creating an Orwellian state where the Govt can record and surveil you at any time, in your own home.

Aaaaall the Republican brainchildren. The majority of Conservatives have stocks and shares in medical companies. Pharmaceutical and insurance. or oil.

But theres the republican followers, the people, who are the worst. they support the middle class damaging ideals of the republican party despite being middle class. because nobody really KNOWS or understands what they want to do. They only listen to republican pundits and radio talk shows, and refuse to listen to anything else or any other POV. Anyone who wants things like Social Security, or medicare, or Unions, or Free healthcare, is a Socialist. or a Communist.

And they dont even know the meaning of the two. They use them interchangeably.

trust me on this, I know from personal experience. My cousin is a fanatic Republican. Who would gladly follow the republican idea of getting rid of medicare, and all those public paid medical programs, the same ones that help his own young son, who was born with a malformed heart requiring surgery, and will never be able to do rigorous physical activity, and who is terribly obese for his age, because in order for him not to cry, since crying made his lips blue due to lack of oxygen, they gave him anything he wanted, and now hes spoiled as hell.

the guy himself lost his job a few years ago, and was unemployed for a while.

he lives in a nice house in NJ with an in ground pool and a pretty nice spacious backyard, but he is certainly not rich. And he thinks he is.

politics are banned at family reunions because of him. he cant have a civil political discussion, he immediately starts turning red and getting riled up. My dad is in his mid 60's. he knows far more about politics than my cousin could ever hope to know. especially as an outsider, as an immigrant who came here from Argentina, a country with it's OWN issues.

but no. apparently he is a "Socialist" because he supports social security and other programs.

Dont you dare try to tell my cousin anything Fox news didnt tell him, he will talk over you and come up with bullshit answers.

IMHO, John McCain is the only GOOD republican.

See he's actually been to war, and been a POW, so he has first hand knowledge. during the debates, I could swear him and obama were preaching the same exact things.

Although of course, McCain was already more towards center of right and criticized by his party for not being conservative enough. I dont think he would have been a bad president had he been elected. (though i still voted for Obama)

I hate politics.
SO  much. They make me feel bitter.