The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Topic started by: Lelygax on February 23, 2016, 03:44:31 PM
Title: A vampire can become good?
Post by: Lelygax on February 23, 2016, 03:44:31 PM
In CV universe (not Lords of Shadows), you think that a vampire can become good or at least stop doing bad things some way? Almost everyone can think first of Dracula while Lisa was still alive, but to me this answer emerged after beating Brauner:
(click to show/hide)
Contains huge spoilers from PoR
at 2:50
Quote from: Brauner
"I just... I just wanted to protect my family."
And sadly everyone knows what happens after he says this. But at the time I didn't knew and thought that he could've some kind of salvation, I was not sure if he would let the sisters go, but he seemed to be starting to being more reasonable.
So, what do you think and why? Not about him only, but all vampires.
Title: Re: A vampire can become good?
Post by: Jorge D. Fuentes on February 23, 2016, 03:52:27 PM
Yes, a Vampire can become good.
A prime Castlevania example is Rosa from Castlevania 64. She's wonderful.
Title: Re: A vampire can become good?
Post by: Lumi Kløvstad on February 23, 2016, 03:54:30 PM
A prime Castlevania example is Rosa from Castlevania 64. She's wonderful.
Dammit, beat me to it.
Title: Re: A vampire can become good?
Post by: Lelygax on February 23, 2016, 09:44:25 PM
Thanks, I didn't finished any N64 or PS2 CV game but heard some things about her and the ending. But forgot lol
Title: Re: A vampire can become good?
Post by: zangetsu468 on February 24, 2016, 06:17:50 AM
Yes! Rosa was awesome. Long live cv64
Title: Re: A vampire can become good?
Post by: X on February 24, 2016, 10:31:19 AM
I personally don't believe that Vampires are inherently evil. But they easily drift in that direction, especially when writing fictional stories about them are involved. By nature they need blood to survive, so they go out and hunt. All lifeforms do this. Rosa is a good candidate as any for a vampire showing a more positive side of her race. The only reason she was doing bad things every now and then was because of Dracula's curse influencing her. But she did fight it off as long as possible and was strong enough that when it came to saving Reinhardt's life, she did exactly what her heart dictated and not the curse. It was actually one of the most touching aspects of CV64/LoD I've ever seen in CV. Aside from Carry's visitation to her mother's grave.
Title: Re: A vampire can become good?
Post by: Dracula9 on February 24, 2016, 01:34:31 PM
An alternate title for this thread would be: "Reasons You Should Read the Vampire Chronicles if You Haven't Already Done So"
A vampire is mentally the same person, more or less, as they were when they turned (excluding vampires that are made/born under duress or other circumstances that may lead to insanity, depending on which mythos you look at).
A "good" person can be made to do "evil" things, and if that person does those things enough times for a long enough period, they're likely to become accustomed to it and their "good" resolve will crumble away a bit more each time, until that person is "evil."
Likewise, an "evil" person can be made to see how their actions affect others, and the consequences of the things they do, and can be made to come around back to being "good" after having seen the outcomes of their behavior and actions.
Neither instance is foolproof or universal, but both circumstances are very much real ones.
Since a vampire remains themselves after turning, the only way a vampire could be "evil" is by being that kind of person prior to turning, or by doing so many "evil" things as a vampire that they've become disillusioned to the morality of it. Humans may see the bloodsucking and killing as "evil", but for the vampire it's really just food at the end of the day. If that vampire is going out of his or her way to cause more death than is necessary just for the sake of it, then that vampire could be considered "evil."
Case in point: Akasha from Queen of the Damned. She was a bitch in life, so she remained a bitch in undeath, because her egotism and self-righteousness controlled her every thought and action.
Alternatively, you can have a vampire who is considered "good," and remains "good" based on their actions.
Case in point here: Louis from the various Vampire Chronicles books, but particularly Interview. He spends as long a time as possible living off of animal blood because he doesn't want to harm or kill a human, and when he does it's to save the life of a terminally ill and dying child, who becomes his companion and pseudo-lover in a sense. Even after the story puts him through the ringer to hell and back and disillusions him, he doesn't go overboard and only does what is necessary to survive. He's not an indulgent vampire, of all things.
Finally, you can have vampires that skirt the line; ones that are in their hearts "good," but do and say things that might otherwise be considered "evil."
Ultimate case in point: the brat prince Lestat. Ultimately a good guy at heart, but a flamboyant one who needs to be in the spotlight somehow. He's brutal when he needs to be and is incredibly powerful (becoming more so after certain plot elements happen), but is still fairly moral. He feels sorrow for the reality of his existence and the existence of other vampires he knows/has turned, and weeps for those close to him. He makes it a point to only kill and feed from "evil" humans, who he discerns by telepathic powers sensing their memories and intentions. However, in spite of these things, he goes along with Akasha when she decides it's time to go on a gender war and start massacring all males because reasons, mostly because she's hot and one of the original two vampires and they have a really warped love for one another and all that good stuff. But after so long, that little voice in his head starts nagging, and eventually his morals lead to him trying to reason and bargain with her on her stance, even if such a betrayal causes them both pain beyond reckoning (vampires in Rice's novels feel emotions with an intensity humans can't even really fathom).
So yes, in summation, vampires can easily become "good," as vampires aren't inherently "evil" unless they already were so before being turned.
Title: Re: A vampire can become good?
Post by: Lelygax on February 25, 2016, 08:21:15 AM
Yeah, I know that in some other works vampires can be good and that is why I didn't count (heh, "count") then as much as valid in CV. An example is Anette in DXC, where she was good but became evil (for plot reasons, but yeah) after transformation, but could also be because of Dracula's control.
Title: Re: A vampire can become good?
Post by: Lumi Kløvstad on February 25, 2016, 10:17:40 AM
Yeah, I know that in some other works vampires can be good and that is why I didn't count (heh, "count") then as much as valid in CV. An example is Anette in DXC, where she was good but became evil (for plot reasons, but yeah) after transformation, but could also be because of Dracula's control.
Waffle needs to write a fanfic where Richter is turned by Vampire Annette and they romantically burn the world together.
In most mythologies, the vampire is driven by the Id, the portion of one's self that determines want. Many famous supervillains are similarly driven, such as the Joker. Normally, the Id is held in check by the Ego (reason) and Superego (ethics), but in a vampire, these other qualities are diminished, which explains much of their behavior.
Vampires have the potential to become good, especially in Castlevania, where any psychiatrist could tell you that the ego and superego are nowhere near as diminished as they are in other fiction (Orlok, for example, has almost nothing human left in him, and the vampires of 30 Days Of Night are even more animalistic). It is, however, highly challenging. The Id, even when balanced, is a powerful force to reckon with, and in its exaggerated state for a vampire would be inordinately difficult to resist. I would compare it to quitting smoking, it can be done but for an addict it will be the hardest thing they will ever do, and the temptation will always be there.
For an example of what a reformed vampire looks like, I'd say a bit less Alucard and a bit more Angel from Buffy, who clearly struggles daily with his vampire urges, although he doesn't always show it.
Title: Re: A vampire can become good?
Post by: Lelygax on February 25, 2016, 12:07:43 PM
Yeah I know Angel, sadly they never finished the series properly... I would read this fanfic anyday ;D
Title: Re: A vampire can become good?
Post by: darkwzrd4 on February 28, 2016, 05:58:59 PM
I believe vampires can be good. The examples above are good. The problem is that vampires are cursed beings and need to feed on blood to survive.
I think most vampires only focus on the negative aspects of their situation and that is what causes them to lose what's left of their humanity. However, if they can look at the positives, they can retain who they are and use their "dark powers" in a positive way. For example, hunting vampires and other dark beings who enjoy tormenting humans. After all, who better to hunt vampires than another vampire.