Topic: News: Dave Cox about continuing LoS after 2: My head says no, my heart yes

[Flame]

OK, when the west make more CV games we'll see. I personally expect they return to Japan for good.
But the point that only japanese get it right, if only japanese and MS did CV games so far, remains true.
Japanese get what a CV game needs, MS (in my opinion) don't.

But I still prefer that they return to Japan, even if IGA, Michiru Yamane and Ayami Kojima are not involved anymore.
Give me another game like The Adventure: Rebirth and I'm happy

Just FYI, Adventure Rebirth was IGA. Music was by the guy who composed for Deathsmiles and that Shmup IGA directed. (the one with Kokoro Belmont)

Also in that case then you should change your wording. Because outright proclaiming that Japan makes better Castlevania games than the West and the West just "doesn't get it" is still totally a totally unfounded argument on the grounds that there are only 2 Western CV games, within the same universe, by the same people.

It would be more accurate to say "that in your opinion, so far the West has not made a Castlevania game to suit your tastes better than Japan has made.

(You might say semantics, but we're all wasting time arguing over video games on an online forum for Christ's sake, it comes with the territory)

[Lelygax]

I understood perfectly what she said, the only thing that is omitted is the phrase "until now". Also I think that the part about IGA and Adventure Rebirth are meant to be 2 separate sentences. I can maybe be wrong Pfil?

[Laina]

Me too. You just couldn't take it verbatim, but it was easy to read between the lines.

[Pfil]

I understood perfectly what she said, the only thing that is omitted is the phrase "until now". Also I think that the part about IGA and Adventure Rebirth are meant to be 2 separate sentences. I can maybe be wrong Pfil?

Yes, what I said was that I am happy if they return to Japan developed games, even if IGA, MY and AK don't return.
Just give me another game like Rebirth, developed by ANOTHER JAPANESE TEAM, and I'm happy with that.
Thanks anyway!

Just FYI, Adventure Rebirth was IGA. Music was by the guy who composed for Deathsmiles and that Shmup IGA directed. (the one with Kokoro Belmont)

Also in that case then you should change your wording. Because outright proclaiming that Japan makes better Castlevania games than the West and the West just "doesn't get it" is still totally a totally unfounded argument on the grounds that there are only 2 Western CV games, within the same universe, by the same people.

It would be more accurate to say "that in your opinion, so far the West has not made a Castlevania game to suit your tastes better than Japan has made.

(You might say semantics, but we're all wasting time arguing over video games on an online forum for Christ's sake, it comes with the territory)

Yeah... with all respect, I know everything IGA did and EVERYTHING he didn't, and the same for Michiru Yamane.
In my previous sentence I explain better what I meant.
The game with Kokoro Belmont is Otomedius Excellent, and for what it is, it's pretty good. It's not Castlevania, of course.
Music in DeathSmiles is also very good, but in Rebirth they are all remixes, so most credit of the soundtrack goes to the original composers of that excellent classic tracks.

I always add "in my opinion", "personally", "at least to me", "for my personal taste", and so on...
It's not my intention to argue or create conflict, I am just expressing myself, like we all do.
And I always try to be respectful, because no one owns the truth, we all have our own opinions.
Besides, it's pretty obvious we all speak our own opinion and not some kind of universal truth.

But there are some things that are obvious. From an objective point of view, I see what Castlevania has always been, from 1986 to the present, including even rare games like the Pachislot games, the Ipad game and everything, and it always had an overall coherence of music, art direction, aesthetic look...
Japan made a few mistakes over more that two and a half decades, but always within what constitutes Castlevania.
And so far, MercurySteam (which is the only westerner that made CV games) didn't get any of that points right.
Most of that things are missing (especially the music).
That's what I think and I can't see it otherwise.

And that's also why I previously stated that "Japanese get what a CV game needs, MS (in my opinion) don't".

[Sumac]

That's entirely subjective, and either way those games are still highly regarded for their "atmosphere & aesthetic" even outside this CV community, which places people like you in the minority.

That is why I wrote "In My Opinion". It's in plain sight.

Well, as far as the IDEA of a "multiplayer Castlevania" goes. the idea was a nice idea. The execution was what was dreadful. At least the art was nice.

Yeah, I have nothing against online-multiplayer Castlevania game itself, but not like it was done with HD.

But I don't want orchestral music in Castlevania. In games like Knights of the Temple it's OK, but Castlevania is another thing. As I said, Lament of Innocence orchestral tracks were brilliant, and they got the point of CV music right (of course they did... it was Michiru Yamane).

So, you don't want orchestral music in Castlevania at all or just orchestral music done wrong?

That's a matter of personal opinion, I consider Judgment a bad game with some bad character designs, that looks like Castlevania (just look at the environments and compare them to MS games and you will see what I'm talking about) and has a wonderful soundtrack.

I don't have problem with LOS environments. And CVJ soundtrack, while being rather good, is quite dull - it's all rock and even more rock. It's like they hired those fan musicians from YouTube who made rock remixes for everything. Castlevania music deserved to have remixes from different genres. This is the same problem I have with HD soundtrack. Except, it was much worse in quality.

It's easy for me to understand that, if you consider the Chupacabras or Baba Yaga from LoS as things that belong in Castlevania, that you don't consider this...

Superficial similarity is nice, but the core of what made it a "good Castlevania game", not just "any good game" is missing in DOS.
As for Baba Yaga - why not? It's a mythological creature after all, in that aspect she is no worse, then most of the Castlevania monsters. And this little guys...I don't see what so bad about them. They ain't no worse than some big guys with pigfaces. Now, if there were looking like, let's just say, bright clowns with harmonica, I could have been rather irritated...Oh, wait...

It was a very good idea that was poorly executed, but it's understandable because the budget was very low and they didn't were given much time to polish details.

Result is what matters. If the game have mediocre quality in some aspects, it doesn't matter why it come out that way.

But the game is all the time Castlevania. Looks like it, sounds like it, plays like it, and I'd rather prefer 5 games like this in a row to be released than another "oh so serious" game with "oh so epic" music, that to me and many people, have CV only in name.

Then Castlevania will die.
It were only six games in one style and where it brought the series? To the nearly death.

Character design was awful but still looked like Castlevania to me, with some exceptions... though it looked more like Death Note, and I don't have a problem with that.

I am sorry, but I (and a lot of other people) have problem, when Castlevania characters start to look like characters from entirely unrelated thing. Not everyone fan of this anime or this style and not everyone should be. Hence, not everyone should be OK, with that.

And the music is not J-Rock fest, they are remixes from wonderful Castlevania tunes, and some new additions that fit in perfectly.

It sounds like J-Rock fest, even if those are remixes of the good melodies. And while it's not that bad on its own, when the whole soundtrack is like that, then I have a problem.

What you said about DoS and PoR is what I consider LoS to be, only instead of trying to cater to the little kids or anime lovers it was to cater the generic modern VG industry and the generic modern gamer, abandoning EVERYTHING Castlevania was, leaving 25 years of tradition behind.

DOS, POR already abandoned pretty much everything of the glorious legacy, turning it into generic anime rip-off, that resulted in nearly death and subsequent transformation into Pachislot videos only. LOS is trying to return the series in the eyes of the general gamers to help it to survive and bring decent money for the next games, instead scraps, that would not be even sufficient to the projects like HD.

You also forget that Castlevania was pretty much always anime, they just chose a different style for DoS and PoR, but Ayami Kojima works were ALWAYS anime-inspired.

There is difference between "anime-inpsired" and kiddish anime designs. First, can be pretty much anything, from Kojima artworks to Dracula X designs, second - will be mostly the same. In worse meaning of that word.

They had a lot to do with the game being so great.

Gameplay aspects are nice and dandy, but what it have to do with characters themselves? Their designs, stories?

It's not invalid. I believe japanese always got the look and music right, even in the Pachislot, which still look and sound like Castlevania, while with LoS it's still debated until today, and I don't consider it at all to look, sound or anything like CV.

No wonder, that Pachislot looks like Castlevania of the past, considering they simply reused a lot of character designs...

Castlevania: The Adventure is not an atrocious game, it's a wonderful game that is very hard to beat, the controls are not good, but it's still a very good game, one of the best titles on the Game Boy, and the beggining of the beautiful GB trilogy. And who can forget the soundtrack from that 3 games?

CVA is a shitty game with the good soundtrack. Bad controls + slowdowns + idiotic hitboxes = shitty game. No matter what kind of music it has. If it's one of the best titles on the Game Boy, than I don't even can phathom what is the worst game ...something, that won't even start, I suppose. And Legends's soundtrack was mostly forgetable.

And if, up until today, MS is the only example of westerners making CV, the statement is not invalid. Only japanese get it right.

The only way this statement will be valid, if several teams from the West will make several (5-6) games in different genres for the series and all of them flop, critically, commercially and in fan circles.
Since those conditions are not met, this statement is invalid.

But there are some things that are obvious. From an objective point of view, I see what Castlevania has always been, from 1986 to the present, including even rare games like the Pachislot games, the Ipad game and everything, and it always had an overall coherence of music, art direction, aesthetic look...

I also, have seen Castlevania from the very first game up to the LOS, and see, that Castlevania was different in atmosphere, music, gameplay, multiple nuances, up until "metroidvanias" set in. Then, all of this things took quite a noticeable hit, that rendered, once great series to something average without - kiddish anime'vania, puzzle'vania, fighting'vania, pachi'vania, medal'vania. It's like its lost itself in all of this attempts to cash on success of experiment gone horribly right (SOTN). I get used to Castlevania changing its style once in a while, but not like that. So, LOS for me is much more preferable option, than another low-quality "metroidvania" with shoe-string budget and copypasted enemies from 1993.

[Pfil]

Yeah...
Different oppinions. I still stand for everything I said, and most of all about the music.

As for your questions:

I don't have a problem with orchestral music for cutscenes in 3D games, like Lament of Innocence did, provided they have the chord progressions and typical arrangements of Castlevania. For the rest of the game I want the typical Castlevania signature music.
And I do have a problem with music that is not reminiscent of Castlevania in anything.
And when they decide to make the whole soundtrack orchestral, they can learn something from, for example, the main battle theme from Knights of the Temple (PS2) ("In Flames") or the main theme from Knights Contract (PS3), or the main theme from the PS3 Wizardry. At least they got the chord progressions right for what constitutes Castlevania music, as well as beautiful melodies and arrangements. I would have tolerated it more, while still not being Castlevania sound.

I don't have problems with any enemy from any Castlevania game from 1986 to OoE. Japanese always knew how to be serious but not so much in the perfect dosis. MS tried all the time to be "oh so serious, and then they insert the chupacabras or the hunchback".

About Stella and Loretta... I liked everything... their designs, their story, their background, their alternate mode gameplay and story, their boss battle theme, everything.
The closer MS could come to something I liked was the Reverie DLC, and that vampire girl reminded me of the vampire sisters from PoR.

I'm OK if in the future they return to anime style and not what you say it's "kiddish anime", Castlevania look was always good to me until the MS games, be it CV 1, SCV4 or any of the MetroidVanias.

CVA is a wonderful game, give it a try and you'll see.

I consider Judgment and Harmony of Despair to have excellent soundtracks.

The Pachislot may look like Castlevania from the past, and I (and a lot of people) hope they look like CV from the future also, when this nightmare ends and we can finally awake into our favourite saga again, after years of waiting.

My final statement was, like from 10 posts ago, something like "In my opinion, japanese always got it right, and MS don't".
That can't be invalid because there are no invalid opinions.
And by the way, I'm playing Mirror of Fate, and it seems like everything missing for me in LoS is still missing here.

Oh, and by the way, you don't need to -1 my posts every time you don't agree with something I wrote. I'm talking respectfully and always give +1 to what I like, but there's no point on -1 someone when you can talk with respect and provide the other person with your points of view.

Best regards.

[Shiroi Koumori]

If I recall correctly, the 2 reasons why the kiddie anime style was chosen for the DS games was due to:
1. IGA hopes to appeal to a younger audiece since he believes that DS users are younger.
2. Ayami Kojima needs a lot of time to complete her illustrations thus IGA decided to let her do the concept art for the PS2 games instead of the DS games.

I loved the Pachislot games. I am hoping for a port of those slot machines somewhere...

As of now, I am liking the MoF game.

[Pfil]

I too hope they someday port all Castlevania material into something I can get.
The arcade game, the Pachislots, the Medal game, the audio dramas, everything...

[Puwexil]

Just FYI, Adventure Rebirth was IGA.

He's only listed as producer. The game's actual development was handled by M2, as the other Konami series games under the ReBirth label. I wouldn't be surprised if Igarashi's name was only attached to the product because at the time he was still the public face of the series. There's nothing to suggest his role was anything but a hands-off casual observer on the project, if even that. Crediting the game to him is like holding Hideo Kojima responsible for Lords of Shadow.

[Rudolph LagnaGaisaer]

to pfil in two posts up
Beatufil expression of feeling´s i almost cry.(this is not a joke)
 have talent in writing and scripting ?

[Pfil]

to pfil in two posts up
Beatufil expression of feeling´s i almost cry.(this is not a joke)
 have talent in writing and scripting ?

Thanks!
I guess you refer to my signature, perhaps?
It's an expression of what I feel like right now.
I like to write poetry from time to time, though I'm not to judge if I have talent on doing it, I just like to do it, and do it the best I can.

[Flame]

That can't be invalid because there are no invalid opinions.

What..?

It IS invalid, because there is no way to accurately judge the West and East, since there is only ONE western studio so far that has made a CV game/series. (If you want to get into more semantics, they are european-west. Let's see a US team do a take on CV, like, say Wayforward, or something.)

It won't become valid if you keep repeating it. you can make yourself think it is all you like, but until we get more western studios to make CV games, that cannot be accurately judged at all.

On Judgement's music: I thought some of the tracks were ok. I definitely like the OSt better than HD's. HD's just sounds so generic rock.

[Sumac]

IGA hopes to appeal to a younger audiece since he believes that DS users are younger.

I've heard, that such style was chosen, also because Konami wanted to make Castlevania more popular in Japan, where, as far as I know, this series wasn't really popular as in the West.

Japanese always knew how to be serious but not so much in the perfect dosis. MS tried all the time to be "oh so serious, and then they insert the chupacabras or the hunchback".

MS did pretty much the same, what Japanese developers did - injected some humor in the grim setting.
The problem is that, in late "metroidvanias" such elements became too common and too ridicolous (like those clowns, I mentioned in the previous post) or chair collecting in HOD. WTF it has to do with anything and why it should be in Castlevania? Such things affected the atmosphere and felt like bad attempts at humor.

CVA is a wonderful game, give it a try and you'll see.

CVA is a pile of shit. I completed this game and made review and video walkthrough for it. It was one of the worst games I ever played.
Here's my reviews for the CV games, including CVA.

I consider Judgment and Harmony of Despair to have excellent soundtracks.

They weren't that bad, just very repetetive and uninspired.

The Pachislot may look like Castlevania from the past, and I (and a lot of people) hope they look like CV from the future also, when this nightmare ends and we can finally awake into our favourite saga again, after years of waiting.

I consider Pachislots to be the last hoorah for IGA's tenure over the series. And I hope it will stay, that way - series must move on and evolve, instead of prancing on the same spot.

That can't be invalid because there are no invalid opinions.

Earth is flat. This is example of invalid opinion.

[Pfil]

MS did pretty much the same, what Japanese developers did - injected some humor in the grim setting.
The problem is that, in late "metroidvanias" such elements became too common and too ridicolous (like those clowns, I mentioned in the previous post) or chair collecting in HOD. WTF it has to do with anything and why it should be in Castlevania? Such things affected the atmosphere and felt like bad attempts at humor.

Japanese never tried to be "oh so serious and oh so epic", and humour attempts worked, at least with me.
MS attempts at humour, like Chupacabras and Hunchbacks, lack the elegance and beauty of Castlevania.
And please spare me your next pics of examples, we will never agree, I always liked everything from Castlevania, or at least never disliked something, until MS arrived.

They weren't that bad, just very repetetive and uninspired.

Repetitive, uninspired and boring is what I think of Araujo's compositions, not only in LoS games.
Also, not Castlevania at all.

I consider Pachislots to be the last hoorah for IGA's tenure over the series. And I hope it will stay, that way - series must move on and evolve, instead of prancing on the same spot.

What I expect is to never again see another game like the LoS series and to see again more MetroidVanias and ClassicVanias as it always should have been.

Earth is flat. This is example of invalid opinion.

Don't play fool, you know what I meant.

What..?

It IS invalid, because there is no way to accurately judge the West and East, since there is only ONE western studio so far that has made a CV game/series. (If you want to get into more semantics, they are european-west. Let's see a US team do a take on CV, like, say Wayforward, or something.)

It won't become valid if you keep repeating it. you can make yourself think it is all you like, but until we get more western studios to make CV games, that cannot be accurately judged at all.

On Judgement's music: I thought some of the tracks were ok. I definitely like the OSt better than HD's. HD's just sounds so generic rock.

I already repeated my final opinion on the matter several times.
Search it on my previous posts.
This is like the fifth time I'll write it:

IN MY OPINION, JAPANESE ALWAYS GOT IT RIGHT, MS DON'T.

And Judgment's and HD's OSTs are beautiful and most important, they sound like Castlevania. Unlike recent OSTs.

Edit: corrected some typing errors, nothing important.

[Rudolph LagnaGaisaer]

you two could stop this childishness ? this discussion  are only exposing you to the ridicoulous not to sound rude to anyone.
but you must understand and critic with intelligence each other opinions and argument´s. the world is great so some opinions will differ from other´s. i don´t like the LoS series too but i don´t expose my opinion about it because i respect the fans that like it.
have you guys minded that Castlevania could enter in a stagnation after LoS 2 ? and if this happen what will be of the CV fan ?
MS is a good Studio. don´t make critic to it Pfil the company is not responsible directly for it. if you want to spend your rage and heat arguments in someone spend in Kojima he is the main responsible for what happened to Castlevania.