Topic: Rampant Police Brutality and Media censorship in Ferguson Missouri

[uzo]

Welcome to America. The land of extraordinarily polarized opinions, overblown political correctness, and gratuitous insulting.

This is why we can't discuss anything without riots starting. No one will listen to the other for a second without trying to shut them down.

[Dracula9]

Can't we all just get alongshut the fuck up long enough to actually listen?

[Ratty]

The Autopsy is in, unarmed surrendering or fleeing teenager Micheal Brown was shot at least 6 times. Including 2 shots to the head.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/18/us/michael-brown-autopsy-shows-he-was-shot-at-least-6-times.html?_r=0

Autopsy understandably causes rage in Ferguson, Governor sends in National Guard.

Human rights watch team from Amnesty International is deployed in the USA for the first time in history. Say the Police not allowing them to observe post-curfew areas indicative of the lack of transparency in this investigation.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/michael-brown-shooting-amnesty-international-sends-team-within-us-for-first-time-as-national-guard-deployed-9675149.html

[PFG9000]

Autopsy understandably causes rage in Ferguson, Governor sends in National Guard.

Understandably?  Was there any doubt his death was caused by the gunfire?   Are you sympathizing with the rioters?

Also, you forgot to post one of the biggest updates.  Here are some photos from the surveillance footage showing Michael Brown strangling and shoving the convenience store clerk as he robbed the store, about ten minutes before the shooting.



Why is this relevant?  For three reasons:  Firstly, it shows that Michael Brown had it in his character to commit violent acts.  Secondly, it shows us Michael Brown's state of mind at the time of this incident, as this robbery happened just 10-15 minutes before the shooting.  Thirdly, it tells us that Michael Brown knew he had just committed a violent felony and thus the police would be looking for him, and so he most likely believed that Officer Wilson's approach would likely result in him going to prison for a few years or more.

[Ratty]

Understandably?  Was there any doubt his death was caused by the gunfire?   Are you sympathizing with the rioters?

Also, you forgot to post one of the biggest updates.  Here are some photos from the surveillance footage showing Michael Brown strangling and shoving the convenience store clerk as he robbed the store, about ten minutes before the shooting.

I'm saying that withholding these details about the killing for over a week whilst indescriminately firing tear gas and rubber bullets at protestors (non violent as well as violent) and journalists alike is liable to cause a lot of rage.

Also it's not just that he was killed by a gun, it's the details of the killing, which appears to support eyewitness accounts that Brown was surrendering when he was shot execution style.

"Baden and Parcells focused on two shots in particular that correlated with witness accounts of the shooting. The first was the shot to that entered the top of Brown's head near his hairline behind the exit wound by his right eye. Parcells said he and Baden believed the shot was fired from above, down onto Brown's head, because the bullet appeared to have reentered into his right shoulder.

The other shot of note was the one in the middle of his right arm. "There was a witness statement that said [Brown] was walking away and he kind of jerks so that would have occurred when he was walking away, and then he turns around," Parcells said, demonstrating Brown's possible movements. "It's consistent with that."

Baden added that the bullets were fired from at least one or two feet away, and that there was "no evidence of a struggle." The only wounds apart from the bullet wounds were abrasions on Brown's face, attributed to him falling down after the shots to his head. "

-From the preliminary autopsy findings of Dr. Michael Baden and forensics pathologist assistant Professor Shawn Parcells.

http://www.thewire.com/national/2014/08/michael-browns-family-addresses-preliminary-autopsy-results/378686/

Why is this relevant?  For three reasons:  Firstly, it shows that Michael Brown had it in his character to commit violent acts. Secondly, it shows us Michael Brown's state of mind at the time of this incident, as this robbery happened just 10-15 minutes before the shooting.  Thirdly, it tells us that Michael Brown knew he had just committed a violent felony and thus the police would be looking for him, and so he most likely believed that Officer Wilson's approach would likely result in him going to prison for a few years or more.

Assuming that the man in the surveillance footage was Brown, which is far from proven.

And even if it is, Wilson did not know Brown was a robbery suspect at the time. And as someone so eloquently put it on twitter:

"So glad we are in the process of determining Mike Brown's guilt so this whole totally non-symbolic, context-free protest can be over with. This definitely has everything to do with that one kid's murder and nothing to do with thousands of historically similar ones. People are obviously protesting and putting their lives at risk purely because One Cop Did One Bad Thing, Once."

https://twitter.com/neilyourself

[Ratty]

An eyewitness has come forward with her story and video of Brown laying in the street with Cops standing by, which they confiscated with her phone. The Police chose not to release her footage even as the released Wilson's name and the alleged footage of Brown in a robbery at the same time.

According to her Wilson tried to get Brown into a car, Brown escaped and ran, Wilson gave chase, pulled his gun and shot Brown in the arm. Then repeatedly shot him when he turned around.

https://tv.yahoo.com/news/michael-brown-shooting-witness-releases-video-knew-not-143600436.html

So much for the "he tried to take the gun" story.

[darkmanx_429]

Not saying that he didn't do it but,
Is it me or does it seem you can't make out sh*t in that video footage?

[PFG9000]

Assuming that the man in the surveillance footage was Brown, which is far from proven.

And even if it is, Wilson did not know Brown was a robbery suspect at the time.

Dorian Johnson has already admitted he was with Brown when Brown robbed the convenience store.  (http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local/2014/08/15/attorney-dorian-johnson-michael-brown-robbery/14118769/)  And as I said earlier, it doesn't matter that Wilson didn't know about the robbery.  Brown knew, and Brown's mindset has everything to do with this.

As for your Twitter quote, this is only about police brutality if this incident was indeed a case of brutality.  We just don't know yet.  My point all along has been that everyone should wait to know all the facts before passing judgment on Wilson, and even then, nobody should resort to the rioting, looting, and shooting that continue to happen ten days after the incident.

Why are you so quick to judge?

[PFG9000]

Not saying that he didn't do it but,
Is it me or does it seem you can't make out sh*t in that video footage?

It's fantastic footage, in my opinion.  The lighting isn't the greatest, but it's better footage than 95% of the footage I see on the job.  The store made the investment in high-resolution cameras.  Most use the cheapest system they can find, if they have any surveillance at all.

[uzo]

It's fantastic footage, in my opinion.  The lighting isn't the greatest, but it's better footage than 95% of the footage I see on the job.  The store made the investment in high-resolution cameras.  Most use the cheapest system they can find, if they have any surveillance at all.

Yeah, I can attest to that too. I've extracted tons of security videos, and thats pretty good. It also helps they didn't zoom out, but had it really nicely angled in at the door. A lot of places have the videos trying to get as wide an angle possible in their shop, likely to cut down on how many they need to buy.

[Dracula9]

Why are you so quick to judge?

It's kind of unfair for you to be asking that, since anytime anyone's posted or said anything even remotely in the defense of the rioters or against the cops, you've jumped their shit like they just personally insulted your unit or something.

Maybe it's because I'm not a cop and don't really understand that 'unit' mentality, but to me everything you've said thus far, while completely valid, comes off as more than a little biased given your position.

I'm probably being 'that guy' with this, but I'm just going by what I've seen with what experience I have to process it with.

[Flame]

Is there abuse and too harsh a response?

perhaps

however, the fuck do you expect when  suddenly "peaceful" protesters start looting and rioting in the streets?

It ALWAYS happens with these "racial" incidents. and I hope I don't come off as racist, but, you NEVER hear about these kinds of things if a white civilian is shot by a black cop.

It's always in these where a white cop gets into an incident with a black guy, that the community suddenly pulls out the pitchforks and torches and are ready to burn the city down in reaction to a "lack of action" when they actually are ignorant fools who have no concept of how due process or internal affairs works in these situations, where it can take a long time before any official statement or conclusion is announced.

from what i hear, the Ferguson PD is predominantly white compared to the predominantly black neighborhood.

but shit, the hell do people want to do about it? for one, that's irrelevant when the case is simply "cop shoots unarmed person"

there's no need to turn it into a racially motivated event, and yet, these chunks of community, black community, ALWAYS try to pull the race card and turn it into "HES A RACIST, THE GUY DIN DO NUFFIN" and I'm allowed to say that, since I live in New York, where EVERY time there's an incident with a black man and police, Al Sharpton crawls out of his hole to racebait the community, and the media in general tends to gobble that shit up like turkey on thanksgiving.


I DO feel the police reacted far too harshly, but then again, given theyve seen precedents with protests for Trayvon in other states, and the general trend of how these racial protests tend to go, I'd say they probably decided it was already the worst case scenario, and the people then proved them right by rioting and looting.

gee, them police sure were overreacting!

Also, I wasn't there when they made the call to roll out the swat gear and tanks. So I can't say what their thought process was. Though perhaps instead of militarizing themselves they should have called in the national guard from the start when shit hit the fan. Not that the NG seems to be doing much better now anyway.

And I cans ay their response to breaking down media makes sense to me. They probably went about it in the entirely wrong way, but it makes sense they would try to gag the media.

Why? because as I previously stated, the media loves this shit. they don't give a damn about how the riots affect the localities or the police or the civillians. it's just the next big story that they can get massive ratings for spinning one way or another. with "LIVE CORRESPONDENCE AT THE SCENE!" They probably wanted to prevent the media from worsening the situation and only made it worse when the media instead spun it as censorship.

[Dracula9]

Okay, ^that I can agree with.

Still not quite at the level of caring about the end result, though. Race cards get played so damn often nowadays and are usually overblown and incorrect that I've stopped caring.

[PFG9000]

It's kind of unfair for you to be asking that, since anytime anyone's posted or said anything even remotely in the defense of the rioters or against the cops, you've jumped their shit like they just personally insulted your unit or something.

Maybe it's because I'm not a cop and don't really understand that 'unit' mentality, but to me everything you've said thus far, while completely valid, comes off as more than a little biased given your position.

I'm probably being 'that guy' with this, but I'm just going by what I've seen with what experience I have to process it with.

My point all along has been A) it's too soon to determine what happened, and B) rioting and looting are deplorable reactions, no matter what actually happened to "incite" them.  I don't believe there is a valid defense for the rioters.  I think it's a big stretch to say I've jumped everyone's shit, but maybe that's just my perspective.  The meanest things I've said in this thread are that Ratty's opinion is uninformed, and that the rioters/looters are douchebags, and I stand by both statements.

And I am absolutely biased.  We all are.  Everybody has bias, and I've never pretended to be neutral.  But I've made it clear from the start that I don't know what actually happened between Brown and Wilson.  I think it's an entirely reasonable and understandable request that we wait until more information comes out before crucifying Wilson.  I'm not sure how I turned into the bad guy here, but everyone has a different perspective.

[uzo]

It's kind of unfair for you to be asking that, since anytime anyone's posted or said anything even remotely in the defense of the rioters or against the cops, you've jumped their shit like they just personally insulted your unit or something.

PFG9000 hasn't jumped anyone's shit. He stated some really good questions, and proposed people don't jump to any conclusions before all the information is in and able to be looked at.

Hell, he didn't even call anyone names, or caplocks warrior anywhere. If anything you're jumping his shit throwing out presumptions like him having 'unit mentality' or claiming he feels personally attacked.