Topic: Americanos, are you voting this year?

[Highwind Dragoon]

What I got from it was that there would be the potential for Isis to smuggle terrorists among refugees (based on their statements), and not that the middle-eastern refugees are terrorists by default.

Outright believing that ISIS can carry this out on a large scale (which they can't) is not only unbelievably stupid, but buying into the fear that ISIS fails to project on it's own through social media.
But I do agree with the 2nd post, though.

[JR]

I never meant to imply anything about the scale on which they'd carry out something like that, but I don't think it equates to broadly painting middle-eastern refugees as generally being terrorists, either.

[Mooning Freddy]

Totally agree with you. JR. I just don't understand why this butthurt culture is a thing.

[Dracula9]

Totally agree with you. JR. I just don't understand why this butthurt culture is a thing.

Aftereffects of the self-esteem movement, probably.

[Flame]

The problem starts when the person gets elected, and doesn't follow his promises, which dissapoints his voters. Or worse: launches reforms which effectively turns the country effectively into a one-party state.

You mention this, and this is basically how I feel about Obama. I voted for him both times. He ran in 2008 on the promise of "hope" and "change".

And 8 years later, 95% of the change has been for the worse, and hope is lower than it was when he took office. (personal opinion anyway)

I don't let the Republicans off easy on this either, they are just as much to blame. The post-Reagan neo-conservatives that make up the party are absolutely terrible, much like the post-Clinton neo-liberals.

It's pretty sad that you think that it's a funny thing to purposely try to offend Muslim people.  And it's no surprise to me that someone with a sense of humor like that would be a Trump supporter.

Well I remember a time when Humor was allowed to be offensive. Ever watch 80's Eddie Murphy? or 70's George Carlin?

Also, my parents come from Argentina, where 99% of the population is catholic of Italian/Spanish decent, and crude offensive humor is fine. So to me, the idea of dressing as a Crusader in a place where I see lots of muslims, seems fine to me, controversial, sure, but thats what makes it interesting.

That's one thing that drives me nuts about what some of the college campuses have been doing recently. Nobody likes being offended, but some of the "outrage culture" out there has been ridiculous.

let's put it this way:

"A Redneck, a Black man, and a Jew, all walk into a College campus... And can't wait to leave"


Sounds like a bad joke, and yet truth is stranger than fiction- Larry the Cable Guy, Chris Rock, and Jerry Seinfeld, want nothing to do with performing at college campuses because of how insanely PC they are.

[Dracula9]

I think it needs to be stipulated that Murphy and Carlin had messages to send beyond simply "ha ha it's offensive but it's funny."

Murphy back then was carrying some of the Richard Pryor torch, and I don't think I have to explain what Pryor's social messages were.

Carlin just didn't give a shit; no holds barred, everything sucks, and everything's fair game, and the man's intellect and social observance were through the root--so much of his surface-level "shock offensive" humor had serious deeper meanings in there.

Obviously the point of bringing them up was to illustrate how popular they were despite what many might consider about their work today, but there was far more to their acts than "oh that's offensive--funny as hell though, let's toss it in!"

[Mooning Freddy]

Comedians have an important role in criticizing social phenomena. And Carlin was really good at that. PC culture, however, doesn't like being criticized because apparently even constructive criticism can be considered offensive now.

What I think the biggest problem is that school education doesn't teach us how to think. I believe I acquired a lot of my critical skills in College; but those are skills you need to have from a young age. In school they teach you that "everybody has an opinion and has the right to voice it", but only later you truly understand that opinions are not equal and that some are more right than others, that scientific truth is merely "what is true to the best of our knowledge" and that you need to compare and develop sharp logical skills to understand which ones are better.

A lecturer of mine showed us a modern philosophy book only a week ago. He talked about how impressed people are by the book and his author. Then he said he knows the book to be absolute crap, and that its author has no idea what he's talking about. "You may disagree with me" he told us, "But remember this: if a person has a PHD, this still doesn't necessarily mean what his theories aren't crap."

Powerful words.

[Belmontoya]

This isn't the 70's or the 80's, you're not in Argentina and you're no professional comedian.

It's pretty amusing to watch people with these racist tendencies struggle to adapt to modern society that holds people to a higher standard of mutual respect. It's like they're incapable of it. They're so used to spewing the crap that they don't even smell the shit right under their own noses. It's sad actually.

I guess not all birds can fly.

[Flame]

This isn't the 70's or the 80's, you're not in Argentina and you're no professional comedian.

The irony in this is that it's ok for others to pretend like they are back in their home countries and push their beliefs on a host country, but thats ok.


also, I would like to point out, from a post a few posts ago, that i forgot to address- that "islam" is not a race It is a Religion/Political system.

[Belmontoya]

The irony in this is that it's ok for others to pretend like they are back in their home countries and push their beliefs on a host country, but thats ok.


also, I would like to point out, from a post a few posts ago, that i forgot to address- that "islam" is not a race It is a Religion/Political system.

Nice try. It's called cultural racism (islamaphobia). Keep trying to justify your hate man. Like I said, it's amusing. Especially when you fancy yourself to be teaching people.

[Flame]

Nice try. It's called cultural racism (islamaphobia). Keep trying to justify your hate man. Like I said, it's amusing. Especially when you fancy yourself to be teaching people.

Don't move the goalposts. You specified Racism. It is not. Also, "Islamophobia" is entirely justified. because last i checked, Buddhists didn't declare holy war against the west. Jews aren't blowing up busses or buildings in the name of God. And Christians aren't decapitating people for being Gay.

It is entirely reasonable to be "phobic" of a culture that is entirely opposed to your own. Islam as a culture and Political system, (sharia) has no place in western society, because it is entirely incompatible with what we consider western values. The issue is that in the countries that many of these people come from, there is NO distinction between the church and state. Sure in the US we put "In God we Trust" on money and swear on the bible, but realistically, we still have a reasonable separation of church and state. In places like Saudi Arabia, there is no difference. The law is not a separate document- the law IS the holy book. And when the entire population's culture is also based on the same holy book, then trying to integrate into the west proves challenging, because it means abandoning a part of your religion. It means accepting Democracy and Separation of Church and State over Islam. And they don't want to accept that, because that's like asking a Christian to stop being Christian. And this has only gotten worse over the past decade, as Saudi Arabia has taken over the narrative, and pushed it's ultra conservative version of Islam on the Muslim world. all the Imams are educated in Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia publishes all the Qurans. And it teaches that the Quran has to be followed 100% to the letter or you are an infidel. Before, we didnt really have this problem. Muslim countries in the middle east like, Iraq, say, or Egypt, were, despite being Islamic, mostly secular. Because their respective dictators were mostly secular, and thus pushed that. So the people who immigrated from those countries, were mostly secular, they ddint take their book 100% at face value, the same way most Christians dont take their religion 100% seriously.

This is the issue here. There is a solid wall preventing proper integration. I mean, I've seen American muslims who have been here for decades, who have suddenly become hardline conservatives, now Imagine how someone being ripped from their country because of war, and just dropped in the middle of a decadent society will feel? Do you think they'll be willing to "assimilate" to gay marriage, or secularism? where porn is freely accessible on the internet, and women can dress as skimpily as they want?

TL;DR, it's not a "phobia" if there's something to genuinely be scared of. we can't seriously talk about Muslims in America and their integration into western culture without having a serious discussion about the radicalization of the religion as a whole, and how it is tied with culture and politics in it's homeland.

[Dracula9]

I'm stepping back in for a moment to say that I seriously want to give you kudos, Flame, for not only understanding but outright specifying the notion of "the faith itself isn't all dangerous and crazy, dangerous and crazy people got in charge and made everyone live by it until it was" that so many people seem to forget these days.

*glances over at two copies of Qu'ran on the shelf, next to a KJB, a Dhammapada, a Bardo Thodol, multiple alchemy manuscripts, demonology codexes, historical grimoires, and the Art of War*

Yup, it's a book's fault for making people nuts or hateful or violent, all right. Ain't no way in hell people's interpretations and prejudices and purposes of use factor in.

[Highwind Dragoon]

I'm voting yes for amendment 2, as well.

Edit: Voted for Jill Stein and amendment 2 on Sunday.

[Kale]

Trump won.

That's all there is to it.

Cher and Madonna or Lady Gaga or something is crying in the back of MSNBC, people are threatening to kill themselves, though they won't, the pussies. I'm waiting for the rest of the fall out. Some one is urging people to snipe trump. And lots of laughing.

I'm stepping back in for a moment to say that I seriously want to give you kudos, Flame, for not only understanding but outright specifying the notion of "the faith itself isn't all dangerous and crazy, dangerous and crazy people got in charge and made everyone live by it until it was" that so many people seem to forget these days.

*glances over at two copies of Qu'ran on the shelf, next to a KJB, a Dhammapada, a Bardo Thodol, multiple alchemy manuscripts, demonology codexes, historical grimoires, and the Art of War*

Yup, it's a book's fault for making people nuts or hateful or violent, all right. Ain't no way in hell people's interpretations and prejudices and purposes of use factor in.

I agree. Though, it seems in Islam, there are a lot of them or at least that seems to be the case, that look at anyone who doesn't follow it as less than themselves. A lot of people are also giving them free pass to do so as well.

[Flame]

That was Impressive. That wasn't just a Trump victory.

That was a clean sweep of the Presidency, the House, AND the Senate.

I definitely didn't expect that. Though i suppose it shouldnt be surprising that the same people who voted Trump voted straight down the ticket, or at least, against the Democrat column in general.

I look forward to seeing the documentary on this election by NatGeo 20 years from now.