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Offline Mooning Freddy

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The "M" word
« on: March 28, 2015, 09:47:07 AM »
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Boy meets girl. They like each other. They start dating. Their connection becomes stronger and turns into love.
They spend more time together. Become the best of friends. Support each other and are happy to have each.
Time passes. They move in together. Everything is perfect. They have no doubt they were created for each other.
Boy decides the time has come to take the relationship to the next level. For the first time, he seriously mentions the "m" word.

The smile goes off the girl's face. She becomes serious. She asks whether he's serious about it. He says yes.

She says no.

What happens next? Friends always make it seem so simple. When the right stage in the relationship comes, boy kneels, takes out a ring, and says the four words. The girl gets excited and shout out "yes" and everybody claps their hands.

But what happens if your partner says he/she loves you and wants to go on living with you, but is opposed to the legal/juridical/moral obligation of marriage? Would you consider that as a sign they don't really trust you? That they don't want to obligate to you? Would you consider it a dealbreaker? Would you see him / her as immature because they don't want to obligate?

 I want to hear your comments on this.  :-\
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Offline DoctaMario

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Re: The "M" word
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2015, 10:01:12 AM »
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I'm assuming this happened to you? Some people just don't see a need to get married, they don't want the legal implications of it.

But more than anything, it seems like there's an aspect of the relationship she's not happy with. It's possible you could get to therapy or talk it out, but you may not like the things that come out of that. If you really care about this person I'd say that's the way to go, but there's obviously something wrong that you're either not acknowledging or that she's not saying.

Offline X

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Re: The "M" word
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2015, 10:04:19 AM »
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But what happens if your partner says he/she loves you and wants to go on living with you, but is opposed to the legal/juridical/moral obligation of marriage?

This is me. I don't believe in marriage nor should I be forced to enter into one just to be happy. With marriage comes all sorts of unnecessary expectations and responsibilities that can cause unneeded stress for both partners. Far too many people nowadays are getting married and divorcing almost immediately afterwards. It's essentially no different then throwing all your hard-earned money away. People don't need marriage in order to live happily ever after. There are many couples out there that are not married yet they've been with each other since the beginnings of their relationship. They love each other, they trust each other implicitly, and they know that they were meant to be together. So in that hindsight marriage is unnecessary. If I love someone I'll just live with that person; No strings attached. And if we should decide to go our separate ways, then there's no need of any messy divorce since we're not married. It's just so much easier and far less stressful to not get married and possible end up paying for it (in more ways then one) later on if it doesn't work out.
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Offline Mooning Freddy

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Re: The "M" word
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2015, 10:14:27 AM »
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It's more complicated than that. She had made it clear when we started the relationship that for her, making the career she wants is more important than any relationship. While I do not necessarily see that as a problem for our relationship, she has very clear principles that may make it difficult for me. For instance, she wants to home-school her kids and at the same time doesn't want them to come between her and her dream career. So, when she has kids, she wants to dedicate as much time as possible to them until the time she is capable of doing it, she simply doesn't want to have children, which means 10-15 or more years. I don't know if I'm okay with that.
It seems like I need to make great sacrifices to have a family with her. And even though I love her greatly, I don't know if I would be willing to do that, especially since it seems she's not as willing to make sacrifices for me.
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Offline X

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Re: The "M" word
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2015, 10:30:30 AM »
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Then it's possible that you two might not be as compatible as you first thought. Both partners must make equal sacrifices in any relationship otherwise there will be conflicts of interests and/or expectations.
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Offline theANdROId

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Re: The "M" word
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2015, 10:55:12 AM »
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Well said X.  I would echo your statement with one minor change to say, "...Both partners must make equal sacrifices and/or have similar enough desires and goals in any relationship..."

Offline Mooning Freddy

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Re: The "M" word
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2015, 11:01:10 AM »
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Then it's possible that you two might not be as compatible as you first thought. Both partners must make equal sacrifices in any relationship otherwise there will be conflicts of interests and/or expectations.

Well, the thing is, I do want to try and make it work. After a conversation with her, we kinda reached a position in which she said she might be okay with a wedding event, but not with marriage. This is quite close to my position because I care less about the legal obligation in marriage but want to have a wedding as something to look forward to.

Quote
And if we should decide to go our separate ways, then there's no need of any messy divorce since we're not married.

While I slightly agree with that, I still think one of the good things about marriage is that it ties people together more than a normal relationship. So if they run into difficulties, they have more motivation to try and work out their differences in opinion than just split. Marriage makes you less free to do what you want but also gives you a sense of security.
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Offline X

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Re: The "M" word
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2015, 10:27:10 AM »
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While I slightly agree with that, I still think one of the good things about marriage is that it ties people together more than a normal relationship. So if they run into difficulties, they have more motivation to try and work out their differences in opinion than just split. Marriage makes you less free to do what you want but also gives you a sense of security.

Oh believe me, you don't need to be married in order to help each other out in difficult situations. That is something that comes from within yourself and has nothing to do with any legal marriage obligations. If you truly love someone then the will to help that person, no matter the challenge, will be there. Marriage doesn't give you that. It comes from you. The will of your very soul in wanting to help another person. I won't try to dissuade you from marriage as you're pretty dead-set on it. But just some food for thought; love itself is not a human invention as is the concept of marriage. Love is God's willing gift to us, and a very special gift to honor no-less.
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Offline Dracula9

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Re: The "M" word
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2015, 10:41:01 AM »
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A ring on the finger and signatures on a legal document don't define love, the intimacy of the bond, or the strength of the union.

Yes, obviously marriage is the quote-unquote ultimate commitment, but really I don't think its presence (or lack thereof) defines the quality of the relationship, unless of course it were a toxic one to begin with (and this doesn't appear to be your case).

But I don't think her not wanting to get hitched is an immediate sign she's untrustworthy or somehow loves you less. Don't let what-ifs mess with your mind, Freddy, those'll fuck you over more than a bare finger ever would.


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Offline piscesdreams

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Re: The "M" word
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2015, 11:51:46 AM »
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I don't know how common it is, but apparently you don't need documents and a ring to have a state recognized marriage. Where I live, if you live together for more than 90 days I think it is, you are common law married. Which I'm sure won't hold up in court the same way if you have a legal dispute.

I personally want to get married someday, but I don't believe in all the ridiculous legal crap it brings. And I will have a prenup, because I refuse to get screwed if it all goes south.

Offline darkmanx_429

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Re: The "M" word
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2015, 02:15:02 PM »
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It's more complicated than that. She had made it clear when we started the relationship that for her, making the career she wants is more important than any relationship. While I do not necessarily see that as a problem for our relationship, she has very clear principles that may make it difficult for me. For instance, she wants to home-school her kids and at the same time doesn't want them to come between her and her dream career. So, when she has kids, she wants to dedicate as much time as possible to them until the time she is capable of doing it, she simply doesn't want to have children, which means 10-15 or more years. I don't know if I'm okay with that.
It seems like I need to make great sacrifices to have a family with her. And even though I love her greatly, I don't know if I would be willing to do that, especially since it seems she's not as willing to make sacrifices for me.

Your answer is right there...At least in regards to Marriage.

Being in a relationship that's one thing, but marriage is a whole another animal indeed.

If both parties are not 100% into it then DONT DO IT.

And even then it's not guaranteed to work out.

This statement alone makes me thing you need to reevaluate your relationship and if need be let her go...
« Last Edit: March 29, 2015, 02:20:38 PM by darkmanx_429 »

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Offline Mooning Freddy

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Re: The "M" word
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2015, 08:02:03 AM »
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If both parties are not 100% into it then DONT DO IT.

And even then it's not guaranteed to work out.

This statement alone makes me think you need to reevaluate your relationship and if need be let her go...

The thing is, I am willing to go to great efforts to make the relationship work. It's not a teenage kind of crush, I like her more than anyone I met and I also love her family. We are not just lovers, we are also best friends. I truly think being with her enlightens me and makes me a better person. Which is the reason I'm not willing to leave her because of our differences in opinion, but hope we'd be able to sort them out over time. She also doesn't want me to leave her and says that if I do, she doubts she'd find anyone else who would understand and love her so much and be lonely and depressed.

I also feel my reasons for ending the relationship are somewhat conservative and hypothetical and because I pressure myself into thinking about children since I think not doing it would be immature (I'm 25). The thing is, I don't even want children at the moment. It's just that her "I'm not going to have children anytime soon" statement pisses me off. Isn't that something we should be deciding on together?
 I also feel like accepting her "conditions" for living together as a family makes me a dependent boyfriend who lets his woman pull him by the nose and fails to get what he wants from her.

« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 08:09:44 AM by Mooning Freddy »
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Offline X

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Re: The "M" word
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2015, 09:49:35 AM »
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It's just that her "I'm not going to have children anytime soon" statement pisses me off. Isn't that something we should be deciding on together?

Yes and no. Since she's the woman she will be the one to literally carry the kid inside her and give birth to the kid, as well as nursing the kid. No man can just forcibly decide for a woman that he wants kids and expects the woman to follow suit. it doesn't work that way nor should it otherwise. Unless she's 100% into it, then don't force her to or she might decide to do something drastic and walk out on the relationship due to the suffocating pressure. If she's ready she'll let you know. And that is the best thing that any man should be expecting or hoping for. While it takes two to conceive children it is the woman who does more for them naturally and therefore she does get more say about whether or not to have them.
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Offline Dracula9

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Re: The "M" word
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2015, 10:13:53 AM »
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X is right on it here. Yes, it should be a decision the two of you come to consensus on, but at the end of the day you aren't the one lugging the kid around for almost a year and dealing with all the physical stresses that come with it. So in all realism and fairness she should have a bit more say. Of course, it is better if the two of you agree on the right time to have them.

It's sounding to me more like you're having self-imposed hangups from asking yourself a lot of "what if" questions rather than her pulling you by the nose. I mean, while we'll totally be here for you to talk, shouldn't you be having this discussion with her, rather than us?


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Offline Mooning Freddy

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Re: The "M" word
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2015, 12:07:48 PM »
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It's sounding to me more like you're having self-imposed hangups from asking yourself a lot of "what if" questions rather than her pulling you by the nose.

You are probably right.

Quote
I mean, while we'll totally be here for you to talk, shouldn't you be having this discussion with her, rather than us?

It's not like I'm not doing it. I want to hear other people's opinion about this situation after some arguments (probably more like heated discussions) with her.
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