Castlevania Dungeon Forums
The Castlevania Dungeon Forums => General Castlevania Discussion => Classic Castlevania Threads => Topic started by: Abnormal Freak on August 15, 2013, 01:40:35 AM
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So the more I see these terms on this board, the more I cringe.
Granted, I've used them plenty of times myself, and it's an easy way to distinguish between the two styles of gaming in the 2D series. But there's gotta be a better way to succinctly refer to either side without using these cheesedick terms, y'know?
Or just stop differentiating, I suppose.
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I like the terms, but even if I didn't I would find the use of retarded in this thread title much more distasteful.
Granted, I've used them plenty of times myself, and it's an easy way to distinguish between the two styles of gaming in the 2D series. But there's gotta be a better way to succinctly refer to either side without using these cheesedick terms, y'know?
Or just stop differentiating, I suppose.
We need to distinguish between them because as I mentioned in this thread (http://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/index.php/topic,6444.msg142048.html#msg142048) they are totally different styles of games with very different sets of merits to consider. You and I may be fans of both but there are many out there who are exclusively (or very heavily) interested in only one or the other. And the terms "Metroidvania" and "Classicvania" appear to be the quickest, easiest way to clarify which set of games in this very long series are being discussed. "Metroidvania" is the more longstanding and established and seems to be the generally accepted term for this particular style/genre of exploration adventure game even outside the Castlevania fandom, no real chance of changing that. I think "Classicvania" is an elegant term to describe the dominant early playstyle of the series, since the majority of games in this mold date to before the stylistic and mechanical renaissance begun with SOTN.
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I like the terms, but even if I didn't I would find the use of retarded in this thread title much more distasteful.
Ultra-PC Ratty strikes again!
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Ultra-PC Ratty strikes again!
It's not about politics, it's about dignity and respect. When I see people complain about "political correctness" 9 times out of 10 it's because they're upset they had to take into consideration the feelings and viewpoints of groups other than their own.
I am absolutely in favor of freedom of expression and speech, but that freedom does not mean all speech is exempt from criticism or disagreement, quite the opposite. But I personally find that we get more done as a species when we talk to rather than at or past each other. An open mind costs nothing, and we all need to share this world.
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So the more I see these terms on this board, the more I cringe.
There are some things in life that make me cringe too. However that is all in the mind. The best way to combat this is to simple just let it be. And as you are already aware of, 'Classicvania' is used to describe the CV series games that play like the original Castlevania does. 'Metroidvania, 'Metrovania' or 'Casltetroid' (however many terms there are) is used to describe the none-liner Castlevania games that play like Metroid. Things like this don't make me cringe because I understand that they are sort-term descriptions used to describe the specific genre of CV game in the sort-term without making them into a long-winded sentence. It's like internet lingo; LMAO (laughing My Ass Off) or LOL (Laugh Out Loud).
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So use "level-to-level" and "exploration" instead :)
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I don't agree with the terms, especially MetroidVania. And ClassicVania as a term is just a derivative result from the existence of the MetroidVania term.
But that's the way things are, and once the terms are already installed on the fanbase vocabulary, no other means of referring the games would change a thing.
So I just go along and use them, as everyone else, in order to be understood.
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I'm fine with the terms. It could be because I'm just use to them.
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While the origins of the term Metroidvania have been lost to time, you can actually blame me for coining Classicvania on Gamefaqs around 2005-ish when Dawn and Curse came out. I used it at the time to make fun of the term Metroidvania, since I said something along the lines of "if we're going to dumbly divide the games in the series as though anything past 1997 wasn't 'real' Castlevania, then we might as well call every game that plays like CV1 "Classicvania", CVII as "Questvania", Belmont's Revenge as "Megavania", etc. And then people started to use it in non-ironic ways. (i used to be a big douche back then)
It's actually really weird to see a meme of sorts of your own creation become and established fan thing.
Anyways Metroidvania isn't anywhere near as retarded as "Igavania."
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The old games tend to be almost completely linear—a few branching paths don't really change that.
The newer ones are quite nonlinear.
I think it's pretty easy to call them linear and nonlinear Castlevania games if the distinction needs to be made.
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The old games tend to be almost completely linear—a few branching paths don't really change that.
The newer ones are quite nonlinear.
I think it's pretty easy to call them linear and nonlinear Castlevania games if the distinction needs to be made.
But there are not entirely linear Classicvania games. If I'm discussing games don't want to have to clarify in a conversation "No I just mean the REALLY non-linear ones" when I can just say one word, "Metroidvania", and be done with it. I think for the sake of clarity and simplicity using the already accepted and in place terms is best.
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Thats why "level-to level" and "exploration-focused" can be used instead. I still prefer Metroidvania because its already common and I like wacky names for some things. ("Gabula" still sounds strange to me)
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Yes, but you can't put Simon's Quest or Vampire Killer in the same group of the 7 MetroidVania and the 2 3D MetroidVania, which we all know what games they are.
Also, there's middle ground that leads to confusion. Vampire Killer is based on exploration but is also a level-to-level game. And Rondo of Blood is level-to-level but allows you to backtrack anytime you choose a level, and features a game percentage display. Nevertheless, it is part of the ClassicVania in the popular vocabulary.
And the Lords of Shadow games (1 and 2) feature similar characteristics to Rondo (in terms of always allowing stage selection and having a percentage display). Mirror of Fate could be a MetroidVania, but it's lacking several things from what everyone knows that must be in a MetroidVania.
Long story short, we call MetroidVania these games: SotN, CotM, HoD, AoS, DoS, PoR, OoE... CoD and LoI in 3D.
And ClassicVania to everything else, with the exception of the MS games which are self-contained, and the alternative games (1 cell phone game, 3 Pachislots, Arcade game, a fighter and a multiplayer).
That's how I see it and I believe it's pretty accurate.
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Metroidvania? Yeah.
Classicvania? Nope.
Classicvania is a pretty accurate nickname - even though VK and SQ deviate from it to a degree. There's a whole bunch of Vanias that have those characteristics. Time limit, stage structure etc. But you can also slump together all Vanias made before SotN as Classicvanias. Just have Classivanias have two different categories.
VK & SQ = NeoClassicVanias? "ProtoDroidVanias?"
Ok, those actually are silly. Perhaps "FreeroamVanias" or something like that.
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While the origins of the term Metroidvania have been lost to time, you can actually blame me for coining Classicvania on Gamefaqs around 2005-ish when Dawn and Curse came out.
Never read that and I still used Classicvania, you damn snake oil salesman you! >:(
Seriously, it's a very natural thing to call dem Vanias, so I'd say lots of people referred to them by that name. Nickname Vanias starting with "C" come to mind easily :-*
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I understand the terms are not technically accurate, but they are already installed and they are a short, easy way to refer to something so that everyone will know what you are talking about.
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I have no problem because the terms roll down my tongue really well now castleroid on the other hand does not. :P
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Yes, Castleroid feels forced to me.
It's like CastleClassic :P
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Yes, Castleroid feels forced to me.
It's like CastleClassic :P
yep it's the clarity and brevity that I like in these words saying linear cv or non linear cv does not jive well with me you know.
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So nothing changes, and the terms are here to stay forever, until a 3rd term arrives...
What could it be? FPS-Vania, perhaps?
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GOWvania
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If I need to refer to them collectively I usually just say "3Dvanias". But there's so few of them and they're so different really most of the time one only needs to say "The N64 games", "The PS2 games" (even though CoD was released on the Xbox) or "The LoS series".
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Retrovanias
Neovanias
Metrovania makes it sound like a GTA-Castlevania mash-up. Sleep with Persephone then whip her over and over until you get your coin bag back.
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I have no problems with both terms.
I sometimes use "console name-vanias" like "famicom vanias".
Castleroid is a no-no for me, it sounds like a disease, kinda like hemorrhoids.
How about pre-sotn, post-sotn, and los trilogy?
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How about pre-sotn, post-sotn, and los trilogy?
Castlevania Adventure ReBirith came out after SotN and it plays just like a Classicvania. And we also have both PsX Chronicles and the PSP DXC so the term post-SotN might lead to some confusion with certain games.
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you all are trying to hard for a new name :P
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Castlevania Adventure ReBirith came out after SotN and it plays just like a Classicvania. And we also have both PsX Chronicles and the PSP DXC so the term post-SotN might lead to some confusion with certain games.
But the games you have mentioned are remakes... :-\
Well, yeah, it would lead to confusion for people who are not used to the massive timeline of releases for this series.
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They are remakes, yes. But they did come out after SotN. ;)
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Quite the heated discussion about something as mundane as Castlevania nomenclature.
Personally, I've never liked the "Metroidvania" term. It feels too derivative: I'd like to think of Castlevania as its own unique genre, and less as a stolen idea from another game... I've forced myself to use "Symphovania" when I write -- it sounds absolutely ridiculous, but it does the job.
And ultimately, that's all that's really important: it doesn't matter if you write "castleroid" or "GOWvania", as long as you're understood.
And for the record: how about: "Castlevania"?
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Why is this a problem, exactly? Have we really run out of things to discuss as a board that THIS is what we come to?
This thread would make more sense (albeit's extremely lacking in tact as far as the tone of the OP and title go) if the terms were still new. As it is, they're so far ingrained and so well-known and used that changing them would do absolutely nothing but derail things further. It'd be like saying the color green should be changed because you don't like that name, or came up with something you like better.
If you want to use a different term, use it. Just don't expect everyone to immediately understand what you're talking about.
This thread's a little pointless because the above is really the only solution that can happen. And the poll's fucking pointless. Don't ask a question if you don't plan on including "no" as an option.
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Why is this a problem, exactly? Have we really run out of things to discuss as a board that THIS is what we come to?
Thats why we have a LOT of another threads here, so we can choose one to participate. This is even on the Classic area, so people wont complain about the subject lol
This thread's a little pointless because the above is really the only solution that can happen. And the poll's fucking pointless. Don't ask a question if you don't plan on including "no" as an option.
I agree with that, since we cant even see the results without voting. Without a 'no" I will not vote. But it seems to be more like a joke than a serious poll anyway so thats fine.
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I agree with that, since we cant even see the results without voting. Without a 'no" I will not vote. But it seems to be more like a joke than a serious poll anyway so thats fine.
Me too.
This is not a serious thing. We're just tossing ideas all over the place.
I could add a "no" option but it would defeat the purpose of the topic poster, I think.
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Wait, this was a poll post? I never even knew that! I had to go back to the first page and look again.
Abnormal Freak has a really small poll. ;D
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Don't make fun of my pole. :'(
And having two "yes" options does make the poll pointless. Which was kind of the point.
I just wanted to gripe, be an asshole, and hopefully be amusing while doing so.
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I just wanted to gripe, be an asshole, and hopefully be amusing while doing so.
You had sucess in the first 2 things already :P
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Don't make fun of my pole. :'(
Actually, I found the pole to be pretty fun.
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Confirmed: Pfil has had fun with my pole.
(I just don't remember it.)
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Confirmed: Pfil has had fun with my pole.
(I just don't remember it.)
Haha! They can't let go one possibility of joke! You are all really, really good!
I don't remember it, either...
Did you use sleep powder?
Oh no, don't mind me, that was part of another thread! :P
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Pfil & Abnormal, y'all crack me up! xD
I think using Classicvania for classic games and maybe Modernvania for the...huh huh Castleroids. That way, we could be hipsters and use a term like "post-modernvania" for all the newer stuff.
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Pfil & Abnormal, y'all crack me up! xD
I think using Classicvania for classic games and maybe Modernvania for the...huh huh Castleroids. That way, we could be hipsters and use a term like "post-modernvania" for all the newer stuff.
:)
How about Classic Castlevania Games and Map-Based Castlevania Games?
MapVania? Just saying... :P
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LevelVania and Wander Around And Get Lost-Vania?
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LevelVania and Wander Around And Get Lost-Vania?
I must be really bad right now to read LelyVania instead of LevelVania o.O
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PfilVania: PoR with ecchi stuff :P
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Haha! They can't let go one possibility of joke! You are all really, really good!
Nein, Fräulein. Just lonely. D:
Gamers and geeks: creepy loners.
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Nein, Fräulein. Just lonely. D:
Gamers and geeks: creepy loners.
Haha, I don't find it creepy, I find it cute and funny! I prefer people like that instead of dudebros who drink beer and play sports and have that super macho attitude that they think they rule the world (and the same goes for women, though popular girls' activities are different, but the essence is the same).
I'm also single and spend my hours playing games, watching anime, etc., except when I travel for a weekend and disconnect myself from my technology addiction (and enjoy a little company ;)).
But you get my point. I defend geeks because I am one.
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Geeks shall rule the world! ;D
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No. But i do find it odd to call a game metroidvania style, when it's not a castlevania game. If it's that style, it'd be metroid like, wouldn't it?
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No. But i do find it odd to call a game metroidvania style, when it's not a castlevania game. If it's that style, it'd be metroid like, wouldn't it?
Exactly, at these times I find it to be retarded. This only shows sometimes how much these so called reviewers or people from news are newbies about these kinds. I dont have seem people calling a game "metroid-like" or something like that in years, they call it Metroidvania lol
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No. But i do find it odd to call a game metroidvania style, when it's not a castlevania game. If it's that style, it'd be metroid like, wouldn't it?
Hell yeah, I find it EXTREMELY annoying (and here I would use the word of the OP) when they call MetroidVania something like Guacamelee.
I'd like to say to that stupid critics: where the hell is the Vania part!!??!!
It's sacrilege to use a sacred word as Vania in a... thing?... I don't know what it is... like Guacamelee.
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Could just make the distinction between both types by calling the old linear games the "Classic" ones, and the exploration-type the "IGA" games. I dunno.
The terms do sound kind of dumb, I guess, but not as bad as Castleroid. Ugh. Castleroid sounds like what Dracula gets when he strains too hard on the toilet.
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The problem is Simon's Quest and Vampire Killer are exploration games, and those are not Iga games.
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But they're not largely considered Metroidvanias, either.
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RPGvagania and OldschoolwhipslingingnobullshitThisisn'tContraAlbania.
Fuckin' solved.
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RPGvagania and OldschoolwhipslingingnobullshitThisisn'tContraAlbania.
Fuckin' solved.
No, MetroidVania and ClassicVania will stay because the forest fairy council has dictated so, and it must be with capital V all the time.
Infractors will be punished with a night stay at the bondage cabin the the fairies woods with Pamila supervising and the slave from chapter one ready for punishment action (it's an in joke, don't worry if you don't understand it :P).
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Good, 'cos I certainly don't. :O
And the Castlevania Chronicles logo says your capital V can eat a dick.
(https://castlevaniadungeon.net/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2Fthumb%2F0%2F09%2FCastlevania_chronicles_na.jpg%2F250px-Castlevania_chronicles_na.jpg&hash=161f0980d88515cc87df0bc6a991adf1)
Heck, might as well start typing it CasTlevania after the GBA games. :p
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No, Castlevania doesn't include a capital V.
Only MetroidVania and ClassicVania.
Those who write Castlevania in a wrong way will also be punished.
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This conversation is going nowhere. Hehehe.
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No, Castlevania doesn't include a capital V.
Only MetroidVania and ClassicVania.
Those who write Castlevania in a wrong way will also be punished.
You will be punished for trying to punish users with punishments like a punisher :P *prepare ropes*
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The Punisher is a good movie :P
By the way, it was a Bondage Fairies joke ;D
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I know :P *further approaches with ropes*
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Haha! After all this time I picture your avatar character in a funny way! ;D
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Pre-Symphony and Post-Symphony.
There you go. ;D
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I call Simon's Quest as "Zelda2vania" since it has a lot more common with Zelda 2 Link's Adventure than Metroid. Calling SOTN as Metroidvania is quite accurate for me since the stage structure, save points and a map system looks exactly the same as Super Metroid.
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The term for metroidvania should actually be called "ZeldaVania". IGA stated in some interview (forgot which one) that the exploration thing in SOTN was inspired by the LoZ games.
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The term for metroidvania should actually be called "ZeldaVania". IGA stated in some interview (forgot which one) that the exploration thing in SOTN was inspired by the LoZ games.
Nah I disagree with it being called that since it shares more in common with Super Metroid than Zelda due to
1.Exploration
2.Save Rooms
3.Map System
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Nah I disagree with it being called that since it shares more in common with Super Metroid than Zelda due to
1.Exploration
2.Save Rooms
3.Map System
Ditto
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Ditto too. not sure what IGA was thinking when he mentioned Zelda2vania.