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Offline Dracula9

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Re: Castlevania: Umbra of Sorrow (Fan Project)
« Reply #60 on: March 14, 2015, 11:43:47 PM »
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Naw, let's. What's everyone's main issue with Lords? It uses the CV name and doesn't entirely fit the bill. Lords by itself is a good game. You're forgetting I'm one of the few here who actually very much enjoys Lords.

It's perfectly fine to have issue with what a company releases, but demonizing them for it isn't fair. You cannot treat hundreds of employees like conniving bastards because you didn't get your way. See previous comment about employees totally waking up wondering how to piss the fans off that day.

Yeah, the execs do make the major decisions. They make decisions like, "hey, let's make a Castlevania reboot!" and then hand it off to the studios, with progress checks being a given. By your logic, we should be blaming Satoshi Sakamoto for the flaws in Lords of Shadow, and let Alvarez off the hook.

Because, after all, the execs are the one who make all those decisions, right?

But I'll use Capcom examples for accuracy.

Why are they milking Street Fighter and various other fighters for everything they're worth? Simple, they know people will buy for the name alone, and it doesn't take much extra work when you have so many engines already good to go. It's a safe path to take, even though it is one of staleness and blandness. But it's certainly not out of hostility towards the fanbase. Do you seriously believe the guys in charge have the time to sit around a table in a dark room plotting and scheming the downfall of their fans? Be realistic. Only the Koch brothers and Dick Cheney do that.

There's also various extenuating circumstances and outside influences to consider. There was the Tōhoku earthquake and tsunami in Japan back in 2011, which cannot have helped Capcom or their marketing and sales quota, to say nothing of employees who likely suffered varying degrees of misfortune from the disasters.

Am I saying what they're doing is sensible? No, but it's certainly nothing to condemn hundreds and thousands of employees worldwide over. I'm pretty sure the sales rep accountants and janitors don't give a shit, but they're included in your generalized bashing of the company at large (PUT THE LIST DOWN ARYA STARK). Obviously it would be great if they (meaning any gaming corporation who does this sort of thing, not just Capcom) banded together, bided their time, and made an outstanding project and drew the fanbase all back together again.

But that's unrealistic, because economic and social factors dictate a lot of this shit, and the fanbases never agree on fucking anything because everyone's right and everyone else is wrong. The companies are not at our beck and call, nice though that may be. They release, we buy, and unless a game completely fucking bombs and loses them a good chunk of money, they're gonna keep doing what they're doing.

Why? Because it's safe and low-cost to do. A lot of the shit the fanbases foam at the mouths over are labor-intensive as hell, and clearly the overarching companies don't feel the risk is worth it. It isn't like any of us can change their minds (because after all, it's not like we're total experts on the market, more so from their perspective, so why the hell we act like it is beyond me).

And I've disliked every Resident Evil movie. Even the first one, Milia Jovovich bath scene notwithstanding. ;)
The films spend way too much damn time cataloging the goddamn T-Virus and barely focus on anything else. I'd like to see a movie about RE4. Or an RE2 adaptation. Or an "Ada wrecking everyone else's shit as usual" film. Or anything that's not Milia and fucking Wesker that ends in yet another stalemate cliffhanger that obviously leads into another subpar sequel.

The movies don't even try and hit the horror note anymore, and IMO haven't done it well since the very first one (though to me, the horror elements of the first RE movie are more body-horror and medical-horror than the survival-horror and slower pacing seen throughout the games). They found out that HEY LET'S MAKE THIS JUST ANOTHER GENERIC ACTION SERIES WITH ZOMBIES AND HOT CHICKS sells better for exactly those reasons, and anyone who hasn't played the games won't know any better as far as how vastly different the two are goes. Not my cup of tea. My problem with the RE movies is the exact same problem people have with LoS; it uses an established name and, in my opinion, utterly fails to live up to that name's standard. Only difference, Lords (the first one at least) was actually pretty good on its own, where I still think the RE movies are shit.

But I played the games long before I saw the movies, and I'm a very avid supporter of good horror pacing and atmosphere, so I'm admittedly more than a little biased against the action flicks pretending to be horror flicks.

« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 11:45:59 PM by Dracula9 »


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Offline X

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Re: Castlevania: Umbra of Sorrow (Fan Project)
« Reply #61 on: March 15, 2015, 01:18:40 AM »
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Quote
That's... Useful to know... And kinda sad too. I wonder how far can I go with this before they kick the crap out of me :P

By Keeping it under the radar as much as possible you might be good for a while. However calling it Umbra of Sorrow just might get Konami's attention since the name itself implies a prequel to IGA's Sorrow games. But that's if and when they should see it. I wouldn't bother with releasing a beta, and if you decide to, make sure that it's only to a select few and through direct e-mail rather then on the forum. However that's if you decide on actually making the game and not just handing out a written story. No doubt the maker of 'Tears of Pain' will probable face a similar issue if and when Konami finds out. However whether or not they act upon it is all guesswork right now.
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Offline Chernabogue

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Re: Castlevania: Umbra of Sorrow (Fan Project)
« Reply #62 on: March 15, 2015, 01:30:41 AM »
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If I can add my 2 cents to the discussion, and without derailing too much plot's thread, I think using more original material may help keeping safe from Konami. I mean, most, if not all, projects out here use sprites (Simon, Richter, Alucard for most of them -- or work on those sprites for small adaptations), tiles, and music from the CV games: with totally new sprites, tiles, and music, I think it'd be more easy to project such a project.

Offline VladCT

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Re: Castlevania: Umbra of Sorrow (Fan Project)
« Reply #63 on: March 15, 2015, 01:34:42 AM »
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A couple cents to that couple cents: Original materials are why doujin works can be a thing in Japan.
It is precisely because it never cared, that people do care.  It's something which it's lacking, because that which it has, it has lackluster of.
^^
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Offline Dracula9

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Re: Castlevania: Umbra of Sorrow (Fan Project)
« Reply #64 on: March 15, 2015, 03:21:49 AM »
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If worse came to worse, you could always just alter the copyrighted names slightly. Julius Belmont could become Julius Belmond, Dynasty becomes Dinasty, Belnades becomes Belenads, etc. etc.

Rosario + Vampire got away with a very blatant Castlevania reference with a whip named Belmond, so we know it works.


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Offline Aelfwine

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Re: Castlevania: Umbra of Sorrow (Fan Project)
« Reply #65 on: March 15, 2015, 03:37:42 AM »
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HEY GUYS!

You know what would be a better plan than  keeping your game hidden to avoid repercussions from Konami...

make it original.

Don't make a Castlevania game. Make your own original game inspired by it.

It's a no-brainer really, you have two choices:
1) Put in loads of hard work to make a game that uses somebody else's IP without their permission and try and keep it as low key as possible so you don't get given a cease and desist-  It IS their IP, You'd do the same afterall.

OR

2) Make your own original game in the spirit of Castlevania that belongs to YOU. If you make your own game you don't have to hide it and you can have the open support of Castlevania fans who are interested in a game that follows in the same spirit.


Offline Dracula9

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Re: Castlevania: Umbra of Sorrow (Fan Project)
« Reply #66 on: March 15, 2015, 03:55:45 AM »
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Then it's not the DCW, which is kind of the point.


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Offline theplottwist

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Re: Castlevania: Umbra of Sorrow (Fan Project)
« Reply #67 on: March 15, 2015, 04:16:21 AM »
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HEY GUYS!

You know what would be a better plan than  keeping your game hidden to avoid repercussions from Konami...

make it original.

Don't make a Castlevania game. Make your own original game inspired by it.

It's a no-brainer really, you have two choices:
1) Put in loads of hard work to make a game that uses somebody else's IP without their permission and try and keep it as low key as possible so you don't get given a cease and desist-  It IS their IP, You'd do the same afterall.

OR

2) Make your own original game in the spirit of Castlevania that belongs to YOU. If you make your own game you don't have to hide it and you can have the open support of Castlevania fans who are interested in a game that follows in the same spirit.

The whole point in making a Castlevania fan-game is exactly because I want to make a game that is a Castlevania.

It's not lack of originality, nor lack of imagination, as this opinion seems to imply. I have developed video games before, and I work in creating graphics and stories for other video games. None is Castlevania, which is why this is being made (and it's not even a game yet and there's little to no guarantee that this will be the case). If Konami ever lets I get my grubby hands on the franchise, you can be sure as all fucks in the universe that this is what I'm going to do. But this isn't the case now, and the chances are slim to inexistent.

What you just said is not a "better plan". It's something I do everyday (planning new games, I mean), and that crossed my head one billion times. It feels like a good idea, but it comes from the false premise that "this dude only wants to make a cool game". You're kinda placing yourself on the position of "I know better".

No, the premise is that I want to make a Castlevania (story/game/art/whatever), and not "a game that looks like Castlevania". Yes, I know the chances are very high that this is shot down if success is achieved. But I'm willing to take my chances. And as Vlad and Dracula9 put, I can always reuse the assets in something original.

I hope I'm not coming off as a jerkass. I'm sorry if this is what it looks like. I have heard this so much in my life that it kinda gets under my skin, and I had to express myself towards this instance of "Why not make something original?". This kind of a off-putting instance, y'know? Making an original game is a good idea in itself, but it misses the point entirely. And when I'm told "Why don't you make an original game?" I ask myself "Why hasn't this dude considered that I have thought of that?". This is like, the first thought that crosses the mind of someone who wants to make a game.

But, Dracula9 did put it better than me blowing steam:
Then it's not the DCW, which is kind of the point.

Dudes, keep on putting your cents in this.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2015, 04:25:27 AM by theplottwist »
The mastermind behind the "Umbra of Sorrow" project. But not the only one.

Offline Dracula9

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Re: Castlevania: Umbra of Sorrow (Fan Project)
« Reply #68 on: March 15, 2015, 04:36:57 AM »
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 :rollseyes:

But yeah, Aelfwine, that did come off rather condescending. Plot's not a fool, any game dev worth their salt - or any artist, for that matter - always considers the possibility of alterations for complete originality, and it's rather insulting to even insinuate otherwise.


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Offline Aelfwine

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Re: Castlevania: Umbra of Sorrow (Fan Project)
« Reply #69 on: March 15, 2015, 04:46:38 AM »
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any game dev worth their salt - or any artist, for that matter - always considers the possibility of alterations for complete originality, and it's rather insulting to even insinuate otherwise.

What rubbish!

Any game developer " worth their salt "  is going to make their own game!

Offline theplottwist

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Re: Castlevania: Umbra of Sorrow (Fan Project)
« Reply #70 on: March 15, 2015, 04:58:38 AM »
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What rubbish!

Any game developer " worth their salt "  is going to make their own game!

What makes you think I don't have my own game? I work with this for a living, y'know.

I do have my own "Castlevania-tribute-thingie-that-looks-a-lot-but-is-not-castlevania" going. I will speak about it on this Dungeon someday too :) Thing is: It is not a Castlevania. Even though I love it, I also love Castlevania and want to create something worth its name, even though its fanmade. Piscesdreams and Dracula9 must know exactly what I mean.

You can dismiss my response you were being facetious here, but yeah.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2015, 05:00:29 AM by theplottwist »
The mastermind behind the "Umbra of Sorrow" project. But not the only one.

Offline Dracula9

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Re: Castlevania: Umbra of Sorrow (Fan Project)
« Reply #71 on: March 15, 2015, 05:08:03 AM »
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Clearly the concept of artistic liberty and how the artistic mind works is beyond your grasp.

More frustrating than that, you seem to have the notion that it's your job to dictate these things. It's not. You don't get to have that power, nobody does. Artists do what they feel compelled to do, and for you to actually suggest they're somehow lesser beings or artists for not doing things your way is beyond arrogant.

So, what you're basically saying is, every sequel in every video game series past the first iteration doesn't mean anything, since they're not 100% original.

And you're calling things rubbish?


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Offline Aelfwine

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Re: Castlevania: Umbra of Sorrow (Fan Project)
« Reply #72 on: March 15, 2015, 05:14:54 AM »
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My response to Dracula9 wasn't meant as a personal  attack on you thePlottwist.

Please understand, I am not trying to say that you aren't capable of making original games. I am trying to tell you that the idea of making a fan game is bad. I view making an original game as a better plan because it means you will have ownership of the game. You don't have to worry about getting a cease and desist and you could even kickstart your project.  Realistically you cannot expect to use somebody else's IP without their permission.

Offline VladCT

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Re: Castlevania: Umbra of Sorrow (Fan Project)
« Reply #73 on: March 15, 2015, 05:37:02 AM »
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You're really missing the point here, Plot's doing this because he wants to do it, "this" being specifically telling his own version of what happened in 1999 in the IGA timeline. Fans do fan projects just to express their love for the franchise they're a fan of, simple as that.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2015, 05:39:03 AM by VladCT »
It is precisely because it never cared, that people do care.  It's something which it's lacking, because that which it has, it has lackluster of.
^^
You are now reading this in Robert Belgrade's voice.

Then Lords of Shadow 2 just takes a big, semi-solid, smelly, pea-green dump all over everything.

Offline Aelfwine

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Re: Castlevania: Umbra of Sorrow (Fan Project)
« Reply #74 on: March 15, 2015, 06:11:08 AM »
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You're really missing the point here, Plot's doing this because he wants to do it, "this" being specifically telling his own version of what happened in 1999 in the IGA timeline. Fans do fan projects just to express their love for the franchise they're a fan of, simple as that.

I understand and I'm offering my opinion that it's a bad idea to make fan games.
All the talk of keeping things under the radar  and only releasing it to a small few seems like a poor choice compared to the freedom afforded by making a game that isn't a fan game. An inspired game could draw on the support of a larger audience of people rather than hiding it under a coat and flashing it to a carefully picked few.

But that's just my opinion.


 

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