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Offline Dracula9

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Re: Castlevania: Umbra of Sorrow (Fan Project)
« Reply #90 on: March 15, 2015, 08:37:30 PM »
0
Ah, now I get it.

Yes, that is a bit of a double standard (keyword: a bit), however plot's work is not established on a large scale and lacks his own brand recognition the masses would know.

Konami's stuff does, and that's where the difference is. Konami's resources are famous in certain regards, and being a large-scale corporation acknowledging inevitable fanworks goes with that territory.

That being said, you seem to have overlooked my point about crediting Konami at the end of the game. Since I wasn't clear enough the first time, I'll give a more concrete example of what I meant.

Sprites
-theplottwist
-so and so
-Konami

Music
-Chernabogue
-so and so
-Konami

Special Thanks
-so and so
-Mr. Coffee and Mrs. Doughnut
-Konami

Castlevania(C) and all related entities are copyright of Konami(C).

Now you see how easy that was? That's how Fair Use works. As long as the original owners are properly recognized and monetary gain is not a factor, barring the owners shutting you down (which is again, completely within their right and discretion), what you do is pretty much within legality. It's obviously another case if you use those assets to slander or create libelous strikes against them, but that's clearly not happening here.

But yeah, as Vlad said, you're going in circle around a completely irrelevant and long since disproven point. Why not quit while you're ahead, so we can all get back on topic and help plot realize this wonderful idea? I don't expect this suggestion to sway you whatsoever, but I offer it anyway out of a desire to compromise. That's not to say I'm settling to your opinion, which I very clearly don't agree with, but this isn't my thread or your thread and it's been derailed long enough.

Quote from: darkmanx_429
Thanks for the lesson about how business and economics work D9, I didn't know that. (Insert Sarcasm.) :rollseyes:

No one is mentioning about treating every employee from Capcom like conniving b@stards or anything like that. That's is why I mentioned the executives. It's not so black and white, but yes the executives have alot of influence on how a project shapes out. You mentioned it yourself .The executives periodically show up at a studio and usually the Producer and his associates show them how their milestones are shaping up among other things.

Sorry, mate. You have to remember I'm very frequently active over on Sprites Inc., a Megaman board, and as such have to deal with people bitching about Capcom's business practices without knowing what they're talking about. That's not to say you don't, but that argument in general has become such an annoyance and I tend to react to it with a little more hostility than usual.


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Offline Aelfwine

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Re: Castlevania: Umbra of Sorrow (Fan Project)
« Reply #91 on: March 15, 2015, 08:45:39 PM »
0
You're really starting to fall into argumentum ad nauseam here; why are you so desperately against this project in particular?

I am not against this project in particular. I Try to discourage fangames whenever I can because I feel that if a person is willing to put in the  effort to make a game it is better spent on something they can own and share rather than something that is going to be shut down eventually because they don't own the rights.

Offline Dracula9

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Re: Castlevania: Umbra of Sorrow (Fan Project)
« Reply #92 on: March 15, 2015, 08:48:43 PM »
0
C&D shutdowns are by no means a guarantee because something is a fanwork.

Nor is it a guarantee just because a particular company's done so in the past. It just means the chance of it is a little higher, that's all.

If any company is able to be blamed for C&D infamy, it'd be Square-Enix, not Konami.


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Offline theplottwist

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Re: Castlevania: Umbra of Sorrow (Fan Project)
« Reply #93 on: March 15, 2015, 08:50:41 PM »
0
THIS is why I said creating an original game is a BETTER PLAN. No need to cower  in the darkness, you can express your love freely without fear

But the true question here is this: Will I be able to tell about the 1999 Demon Castle War on this supposedly "better" scenario proposed by you? If not, it's not "better". It's not even worth my time to consider it as anything more than "Meh". Not even close.

I already have said that I have my own original things going. I don't think you understand that "better" is a matter of perspective, and that you're still trying to take the high-horse instance.

Quote
This is the double standard. Theplottwist expects other people to have the moral decency not to use his work without his permission. Yet that standard doesn't seem to apply to himself when it comes to Konami. If you bother to actually ask them they will likely respond in a similar way to thePlottwist:
This stuff is ours, please don't use it.

It would be a double standard if I were profiting from original things from Konami, which I'm not. In fact, I'm creating original content and saying that it's Konami's property, which is ironic because everything CREATED here is done by my own hand and imagination, and for free. Not even Alucard' sprite bears likeness to Konami's Alucard's sprite. Everything on this thread so far is original besides textual mentions to Konami's Castlevania canon. Have you seen anything ripped from the games besides text here? Text is protected under critique or commentary, so it doesn't even come close to being "ripped", in fact. Copyright laws protect my right to speak about it (be it through text or else). There's this interesting video on the subject which I'd recommend you watching.

What I'm asking anyone wanting to use MY content is to have the common courtesy to ask for permission. That's it. And I can't even do anything solid about it if someone tries to steal my things beyond calling them "silly silly robber!"

I might be wrong, and I might get a cease and desist for that (purely because Konami is astronomically more powerful than I am), but if I worried about it the much that you think I should, I'd not have landed the job of my life, honestly.

By your logic, every single work of fanart, including music, graphics and text, should get cease-and-desist orders because "the owner won't allow for it".
« Last Edit: March 15, 2015, 08:58:32 PM by theplottwist »
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Offline VladCT

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Re: Castlevania: Umbra of Sorrow (Fan Project)
« Reply #94 on: March 15, 2015, 08:53:05 PM »
+1
I am not against this project in particular. I Try to discourage fangames whenever I can because I feel that if a person is willing to put in the  effort to make a game it is better spent on something they can own and share rather than something that is going to be shut down eventually because they don't own the rights.
Let me reiterate that he's doing this and specifically this out of love. If it's worth doing out of love alone then it's worth doing. Why do you feel the need to dictate how people should express their love? Let them express it their own way.
It is precisely because it never cared, that people do care.  It's something which it's lacking, because that which it has, it has lackluster of.
^^
You are now reading this in Robert Belgrade's voice.

Then Lords of Shadow 2 just takes a big, semi-solid, smelly, pea-green dump all over everything.

Offline theplottwist

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Re: Castlevania: Umbra of Sorrow (Fan Project)
« Reply #95 on: March 15, 2015, 08:55:22 PM »
0
I am not against this project in particular. I Try to discourage fangames whenever I can because I feel that if a person is willing to put in the  effort to make a game it is better spent on something they can own and share rather than something that is going to be shut down eventually because they don't own the rights.

Well, if that comes to this, then my answer is simple: I have read your opinion, and I recognize it. Yet, I'm not willing to listen because it comes from a lot of false premises (Who told you I want to make profit from it? Who told you I want to create something original? Who told you that this is a "better idea"?). I am doing this because I want to express my affection towards Konami's property by creating as much original content as I can as a tribute to it.

Plus, it DOES seem that you're against this project in particular because there are many other projects using much more ripped content than mine here, yet I don't see you there making a stand. But this is my opinion only.
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Offline Aelfwine

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Re: Castlevania: Umbra of Sorrow (Fan Project)
« Reply #96 on: March 15, 2015, 09:05:26 PM »
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Let me reiterate that he's doing this and specifically this out of love. If it's worth doing out of love alone then it's worth doing. Why do you feel the need to dictate how people should express their love? Let them express it their own way.

As I said in an earlier post it is only my opinion that making a fangame is a bad idea and I've stated the reasons why I think that's the case. The plottwist can do whatever he likes.

Also I am equally unsupportive of all fangames. Just because I don't post in every one doesn't mean I am attacking your project in particular, theplottwist.

Offline Dracula9

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Re: Castlevania: Umbra of Sorrow (Fan Project)
« Reply #97 on: March 15, 2015, 09:13:00 PM »
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Yeah, that's all fine, we get that's your opinion, and you're entitled to it.

However, there's been quite a few people iterating that the technicalities of it are largely irrelevant here, as well as plot himself saying he doesn't care and isn't being swayed by it. And yet you're still arguing in circles over a point that'd been basically defeated already.

You're fine to be unsupportive of and disagree with what's going on here, but the air of self-righteousness and holier-than-thou that's been in most of your posts so far (this is how it's been interpreted, you may not have meant it that way, just a thing to consider) is clearly very unwelcome. There's a difference between expressing one's opinions and trying to shove them down others' throats and force them to conform to those opinions.


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Offline Shiroi Koumori

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Re: Castlevania: Umbra of Sorrow (Fan Project)
« Reply #98 on: March 15, 2015, 09:17:03 PM »
+1
OK GUYS. STOP this fan games argument now.
This is derailing the thread more than it should.

Either show support or constructive criticism.
Otherwise, stay silent and move on to other things.

Offline darkmanx_429

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Re: Castlevania: Umbra of Sorrow (Fan Project)
« Reply #99 on: March 16, 2015, 06:00:41 AM »
0
Sorry, mate. You have to remember I'm very frequently active over on Sprites Inc., a Megaman board, and as such have to deal with people bitching about Capcom's business practices without knowing what they're talking about. That's not to say you don't, but that argument in general has become such an annoyance and I tend to react to it with a little more hostility than usual.

It's ok D9, I know you are a Capcom fan-boy.lol 8)

Remember, I don't know everything, but I am currently working in the gaming industry and I (and I am sure many others) have noticed things while working for corporate conglomerates that kind of rubbed me the wrong way. But I am sure you can say that about any particular company.

I still like Capcom as a brand, but their business practices of late in my opinion leave alot to be desired. Don't even get me started about Sony.

Things like what we were talking about it the reason I went back to school to get my Masters in Game Design and Development.

Give me some of that action!

BACK ON TOPIC:
Plot Twist when are you going to post some power up/items ideas?

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Offline Shiroi Koumori

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Re: Castlevania: Umbra of Sorrow (Fan Project)
« Reply #100 on: March 17, 2015, 03:24:40 AM »
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@darkmanx: Damn, that Masters degree is just so cool. Go get it!
It makes mine sound so common.... wait, it is kinda common. /sigh

Plot, post more info.

Offline theplottwist

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Re: Castlevania: Umbra of Sorrow (Fan Project)
« Reply #101 on: March 17, 2015, 03:32:35 AM »
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BACK ON TOPIC:
Plot Twist when are you going to post some power up/items ideas?

Plot, post more info.

The next post will be an update: I'll post the timeline I created as the build-up background for this story. It'll reveal a grand scheme through history meant to take effect in 1999.

Right now, I'm struggling with a plot hole I can't seem to find an explanation yet, and will probably require me to invent a variable for quite a big plot point, something I'm trying to avoid like the plague. If worse comes to worst, this will be done. It's possible I'll have this ready yet today.

Darkman, I have powerup, equipment, combat system and subweapon ideas, but I can't lay these ones yet as I still don't have a solid foundation for a game. So I'm focusing on the plot first, and the background plot for this is quite convoluted. The timeline will ease things for me to explain it. Before focusing on a game adaptation, I want the plot to be nitpicked or accepted by the people here.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2015, 03:37:05 AM by theplottwist »
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Offline Shiroi Koumori

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Re: Castlevania: Umbra of Sorrow (Fan Project)
« Reply #102 on: March 17, 2015, 03:37:49 AM »
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@plot: Good point. Plot first before game gimmicks. I hope you find a way to fill in that plot hole.

Offline darkmanx_429

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Re: Castlevania: Umbra of Sorrow (Fan Project)
« Reply #103 on: March 17, 2015, 05:41:42 AM »
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@darkmanx: Damn, that Masters degree is just so cool. Go get it!
It makes mine sound so common.... wait, it is kinda common. /sigh

Plot, post more info.

Well Shiroi, a degree is a degree, your work experience will always trump those, however without the degree people don't want to pay you what your worth.

It's all about that all mighty dollar when it comes down to it. Even with work experience and a Bachelor in Video Game Art and Design (Which I possess), people are still trying to short change you.

I am just checking this off my bucket list. But I tell you what once I get this Master's I am done!

@plot: Good point. Plot first before game gimmicks. I hope you find a way to fill in that plot hole.

I like gimmicks! lol

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Offline theplottwist

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Re: Castlevania: Umbra of Sorrow (Fan Project)
« Reply #104 on: March 17, 2015, 06:08:17 AM »
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I like gimmicks! lol

Well, I'll be guilty and say that the main foundation for the story came from a gameplay gimmick I though it would be cool to have on a Castlevania.

Then I started analysing everything in retrospect, and the gimmick actually made a lot of sense for me. From it, many gimmicks spawned with retrospective story elements to explain them.

So if I do create a game from this story with the Dungeon's talents, you are sure to see LOTS of gimmicks in it lol
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