Topic: This may sound like a odd request but...

[Zydalc]

Go back to tumblr if you don't have the spine to be told why you're wrong.

Present a better argument for me to work with if you have a problem with the current instead of hiding behind buzzwords you don't even understand properly. Fucking coward.

The red flags were all there crystal clear and I don't think you're worth responding to anymore while acting like abusive toxic trash like the rest of your kind does.

Sorry I won't be playing your Umbra game after this.

[Dracula9]

Shame, since even I decided that last one was too harsh and altered it to be more respectable.

[Zydalc]

Present a better argument for me to work with if you have a problem with the current, instead of hiding behind buzzwords you don't even understand properly. I cannot work with those when they are misrepresented. You clearly respond better to Plot telling you the same things in a softer tone, so I'll be more than glad to forgive and forget if you give me something I can provide those softer tones to. There's no point in speaking if this remains a trading of insults.

Here's the problem, you seem to be insulted when cheats are used in your games, you can put them in but people don't have to use them which is exactly the point.

Besides why do you even care when someone else does something with your game?

I also find it interesting that you seem to think that I'm hurling insults at you but you fail to realize that you were the one that came swinging over my comments total gungho in the first place and I had to defend myself and call you out on your behavior which you somehow find that "insulting" to you which sounds like psychological projection here.

All I thought I was doing was asking if cheat codes WERE possible. I'm just saying that having options are nice, doesn't mean I'll ever need them, but it's just nice to know they're there if I want and/or need them. You can put in all sorts of options to make the game(s) easier for those of us with disabilities of any kind, or those of us who are having trouble, but guess what, it's just that, an option, nobody has to use them, but the people who do will surely appreciate it.

[Belmontoya]

Here's the problem, you seem to be insulted when cheats are used in your games, you can put them in but people don't have to use them which is exactly the point.

Besides why do you even care when someone else does something with your game?

It's impossible to please everyone.

Mig and the rest of us are happy with what we made.

It's humanly impossible to please everyone and make porridge that's just right for every bear.

Very sorry that you don't have the patience for it man. But the game is what mig wanted it to be and I think that's great.

This is not an elitist attitude. This is just life.

I'm terrible at bowling. My 5 year old can beat me.

I don't get pissed and ask if I can walk down the lane and kick the pins over. And I don't go on forums to complain about whoever invented bowling.

Again.. sorry!

Please let's get along!

[Zydalc]

It's impossible to please everyone.

Mig and the rest of us are happy with what we made.

It's humanly impossible to please everyone and make porridge that's just right for every bear.

Very sorry that you don't have the patience for it man. But the game is what mig wanted it to be and I think that's great.

This is not an elitist attitude. This is just life.

I'm terrible at bowling. My 5 year old can beat me.

I don't get pissed and ask if I can walk down the lane and kick the pins over. And I don't go on forums to complain about whoever invented bowling.

Again.. sorry!

Please let's get along!

"Impossible to please everyone" is not a excuse when you're making a fan game, like what are you're originally making this for and why? Also a video/computer game is not the same thing as bowling either since the latter is a public accessed sport not a application/program sitting on someone's personal space that anyone can manipulate to what suits them.

Also the part bolded is where the main problem lies, it is elitism and you can't normalize calling it "life" hence going back to the main point of my above question which really doesn't matter anyways since the answer is obvious after all.

[Belmontoya]

"Impossible to please everyone" is not a excuse when you're making a fan game, like what are you're originally making this for and why? Also a video/computer game is not the same thing as bowling either since the latter is a public accessed sport not a application/program sitting on someone's personal space that anyone can manipulate to what suits them.

Also the part bolded is where the main problem lies, it is elitism and you can't normalize calling it "life" hence going back to the main point of my above question which really doesn't matter anyways since the answer is obvious after all.

I think you're confusing us with someone who owes you something.

[theplottwist]

"Impossible to please everyone" is not a excuse when you're making a fan game, like what are you're originally making this for and why?

OK no, stop.

It is OBJECTIVELLY impossible to please everyone. It's not an excuse. Even if you're making a game to please the biggest number of people possible, you can't possibly hope to please everyone.

The reasons for displeasing will vary from system incompatibility to game genre to game flow to a million other things that the dev shouldn't be expected to cover 100%. Some of these things are the dev's fault, some of them are not. Things that displease the majority of the target audience are a good hint that it's the dev's fault, things that displease one or two people who can't produce objective, reproducible results, is a good hint of the reverse.

Example: You not making it through an specific part of the game because "it's too hard" when the overwhelming majority of people have beaten it tells me that this might be and issue with your skills, not with the game. You're not reporting a reproducible bug that makes the game objectivelly unwinnable -- you're saying it's too hard for you. You ARE allowed to ask for a method to beat it easier, but you can't expect the dev to follow your demands. On the eyes of the dev, you're ONE person out of thousands that had no problem with the game's difficulty.

Can you bring here an objective reason (or at least something very easily observable) that would tip the balance on your favor to add cheat codes to the game? If you can't, why would the dev add your demand to the game?

Another example: Earlier this year, Mig posted here a demo of the game. We played it thoroughly and pointed out that:

1- Platforms were mingling too much with the background due to low contrast.
2- Pegs were difficult to catch on due to small hitbox.

These issues were fixed, because we provided actual evidence of the problem happening over and over again. So, saying "it's too hard" DOES work, when you can actually demonstrate the issue in detail.

Also a video/computer game is not the same thing as bowling either since the latter is a public accessed sport not a application/program sitting on someone's personal space that anyone can manipulate to what suits them.

That is also not how it works. A game is not just a magic pile of data that does whatever you want. It requires "coding" and "engine", complex things that while are INTENDED to run on the most environments possible smoothly, it is impossible to account for them to work on every single possible combination of system/program that will arise from public testing. Some players will try to play the game on a toaster, and then complain it doesn't work. Some players will play it on a PC brought to them from the future by time travellers and complain the game doesn't work.

They can complain, but the dev CAN'T meet their expectations some times. Specially when we're talking of games made on no budget (LC2's case). If even AAA games, with all their resources, can't meet this criteria of pleasing everyone, why should games made by indie devs? The indie dev will try their best most of the time, but sometimes their best just isn't enough, and what can be done is go on with your life.

Like, again, I see where you're coming from and I understand the mindset. But it's also clear to me that you do not understand exactly how a game software is made, and that's OK, since you as a player has no obligation to know how a game is made. But here's the thing: It's not exact science once it gets out in the world. "Not pleasing everyone" is actually a nightmare devs have to deal with every single day and learn to accept, because it really is how it works. Someone will not like your game for one reason or another that can be objective or not, and they'll make it known to the world. As someone who does not understand how a game is made, you should listen to people that do telling you where you are wrong  and why your demand can't be met.

[Zydalc]

I didn't at all intend for my words to sound like you, your community or anyone else owed me something.

I know it's impossible to try and PLEASE everyone, because many people will pick out even the tiniest faults and then not play the game, I get that. at the end of the day, all I'm really saying is, like I said before, that cheat codes are a nice option to have, you don't need to use them to complete the game, but they're there if you want them, because having options is nice, even if you never use any of the extra stuff available to you, it's just nice to know. There are surely plenty of people who want or would like these options available to make the game a little easier, or just experience it with no pressure, or even decide if they want to keep the game and play through it at another time for real.

For the most part, I absolutely understand how game development works, and i know this stuff doesn't just magically crop up overnight, and it's all well and good that the developers have their intent and shape a game according to their vision, and you make some excellent points about how some people will be displeased for various reasons that may or may not be the developer's fault.

Now, having all that said, when all is said and done, and the developer has put in months, or even years on a project, unless some last minute bugs arise that need immediate fixing, it's not really in the developer's hands anymore, it's in the customers and/or other players, and how they play the game is their business, and they should feel free to play in any manner that they so desire once the game is in the hands of the players, what happens now is they offer critiques towards the developer (though this obviously isn't entirely possible with AAA games), and tell them what they can do to improve on their next project if there is one, and where they might want to go from there finally, maybe I'm wrong in feeling the way that I do, but this is just my two cents on the matter, do with it what you will

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

There was definitely some unneeded harshness in this thread.

I think I recall the old days, where a SNES game would have a magic 'cheat code' that would do stuff in-game upon pressing a magical button combination (The "Blood Mode" in Mortal Kombat II, the "Mirror Match Enable" code in the old Street Fighter II SNES games, the "Infinite Continues" code in Gradius III).

While these are nice to have, they're generally not necessary to have a good game.

I think the request is a little odd, but not a bad request... but I fear that having a "God Mode" code, would be pretty disrespectful to the people who worked really hard in this game to make sure that the game eased you into a good challenge and kept you going.

LC and LC2 definitely have that "Let me try juuust ONE more time!" kind of gameplay.  And this gameplay has been the root of the Castlevania series.
To break that with a cheat code would seem disrespectful, but not as disrepectful as games who have given you an "Easy Mode", only for you to reach the game only for the Ending Screen to laugh at you and make you challenge the tougher difficulty modes.

(Damn it, Serio, I will never be good at your game... )

[Dracula9]

I'd like to go on record and clarify that I was speaking entirely of save file editing, not necessarily ingame codes.

I have a problem with the former. I never said I didn't have plans for the latter.

[zangetsu468]

Holistically, on the back of what Jorge has said re: harshness, I believe this is indicative of how niche dedicated and hardcore Castlevania fans can be and how passionate these fans can be about the games they create as a kind of homage to what was once the "golden age" of gaming (in this case 2d castlevania) which debatably is not necessarily where our beloved industry is today.

[Side Note: I'm not sure how well OP knows other members of the CVD community, nor do I excuse arrogance, condescension, superiority or untoward behaviour, however, I will say that let alone to many people acknowledging posts or even comments from newcomers in the CVD (or any niche forums) I personally have experienced being ignored or having my ideas torn down when I believed it wasn't really merited. It's not the nicest of experiences which is why even if for example nobody supports OP's philosophy of gaming, we should at the very least hear people out and so forth.]

The way I see fan games and games in general mind you, are like works of art. Some explore certain facets and in others less of those facets are explored or included. By the same token that gamers face frustrations because they may not be able to pick up certain styles of games innately, there stands some poetic merit in creators wrapping up their game the way in which they see fit. As it is the creator who dictates difficulty, balance and risk/ reward factors being somewhat mindful of what constitutes a favourable design and suitable level(s) of challenge, I also do feel it's a gamers responsibility to invest as much or as little time as they believe beneficial into said games.

The issue I believe is that the creators made these fan games with a vision in mind. A creator's vision is not necessarily a player's vision. Generally things such as a learning curve, strategic design (platforms, enemy placement etc) and overall challenge settings are implemented to keep the player engaged and learning while they experience the game. Creators are human beings, not gods (though admittedly some are Kings and Queens among men/ women) they can't account for every member of their audience's particular requirements. Similarly to art, not all viewers/ players understand the intention behind any given piece of work.

There are also examples or games with cheat codes which don't guarantee making the journey a cakewalk. Older games started you later in the game (Kid Icarus or Metroid) but if you've never played or mastered the game, you'll have a hard time finishing them regardless as there were elements of trial and error involved, no matter how filled to the brim with resources an inexperienced player is. This level of assistance is not a "bad" request, but it's going to game genie levels of handicap which even in decades gone by are niche at best.

[Wanhus]

My game Simons Curse already has cheat codes that I'm using to test the game better.
But I think I'll comment them away so no one will ever get to them. =)

Don't mean anything bad to no one but i just don't like cheating =(
What comes to save file editing well I don't like that either but I'm not going to do extra work to prevent that. I'll max hide them and convert the file type but not encrypt.
I could add internal game code to compare save files if they have been modified, if so then corrupt them. But I would consider that to be mean.

[eryson]

Maybe All this discussion could be solved with a

"Sorry, but this game was not designed to be played with cheats. We hopes that you can understand."

Zydalc, please understand. Mig and Belmontoya gave their best so the game could be good as it is today. and It surpassed probably almost everyone expectations) so, accept the thing as it is and stop with this discussion, unless you're intentionally prolonging it for fun.

(I hate lasagna, but I'll not blame the chef because it, jut find another place to eat  )

[Dracula9]

I hadn't seen this post prior to now:

Here's the problem, you seem to be insulted when cheats are used in your games, you can put them in but people don't have to use them which is exactly the point.

Besides why do you even care when someone else does something with your game?

I also find it interesting that you seem to think that I'm hurling insults at you but you fail to realize that you were the one that came swinging over my comments total gungho in the first place and I had to defend myself and call you out on your behavior which you somehow find that "insulting" to you which sounds like psychological projection here.

All I thought I was doing was asking if cheat codes WERE possible. I'm just saying that having options are nice, doesn't mean I'll ever need them, but it's just nice to know they're there if I want and/or need them. You can put in all sorts of options to make the game(s) easier for those of us with disabilities of any kind, or those of us who are having trouble, but guess what, it's just that, an option, nobody has to use them, but the people who do will surely appreciate it.

I came in swinging because the way you worded your original premise suggested that you wanted to sequence break to hell and back because you were too impatient to play a game quote-unquote "properly" (quotes because this term's meaning is subjective as hell and I'm only mentioning it for the larger point--debating what it actually means is another discussion for another time). It would appear that you're far more reasonable than that first impression might've suggested and that I swung too hard out of the gate. For that, I am sorry. I will make no denials of any hypocrisies, but I will instead try to phrase my perspective better than I have thus far in the hopes that a more common ground can be reached, or at the very least seen.

Arguing whilst angry is the same kind of problem as shopping while hungry, and I really don't like being angry or want to be so about this anymore.

I don't have a problem with codes--be they infinite health, get items, start later, play as secret character, max stats, whatever. Those are something that I would put in myself and would be at each player's discretion to use them or not.

But going in and editing a save file to get everything is another story entirely. That's not something I would plan for or put in myself, nor is it something which I as a developer can plan around like I can with codes. File editing is a very deliberate attempt at the ultimate extreme of sequence breaking, and it suggests the player doing it doesn't even care about what efforts I or the team went to to provide a balanced difficulty and acquisition curve. That's what I have a problem with and feel insulted by.

And it's like I said previously already: if a player's beaten the thing fully, I don't care what they do after that. Hack it, break it, go in and edit all the graphics to be Mr. Saturn in a funny hat, I don't give a shit. You've beaten it "properly" already, you've experienced all of what we set out for you to experience, so if you wanna have a bit of fun tearing it all apart after that, go for it. It's tearing it apart without being immersed in the full experience that bothers me.

To continue the chef-lasagna metaphor: it's like me wanting to be a chef for years, scrimping and saving and busting my ass to afford to go to cooking school and struggling through that to learn all the ropes and bells and whistles until finally settling down and making a success for myself at a nice restaurant. My specialty at said restaurant is a gourmet lasagna, one which calls for a meticulous and carefully-crafted recipe that I put my heart and soul into for the enjoyment of the diners. Now let's say a diner orders it, and when they realize it's going to take a little while for me to properly prepare it, they storm back into BOH and tell me to fuck off, they're just gonna go get a 3-minute microwave lasagna instead because they don't feel like waiting for me to cook theirs.

That would feel an insult to my pride as well as all the time and sweat and hard work I put forth in becoming that chef, right? Because someone would rather take the quick-and-easy route and blow off the hard work I would've gladly expended to give them an enjoyable meal?

That's more or less the reason I snapped at you so fiercely (which I will apologize for the delivery of--I can't say I'm sorry for feeling the way I do, so I won't bullshit you and say that I am, but I do feel sorry for how heavily I bit back, and I will not request its acceptance nor bear ill will should you choose to reject it).

I'm over here working my ass off to ensure an experience that is enjoyable and fair for as many people as I can humanly account for. I don't expect to please everyone, but I'll be damned if I don't try. So to be over here working really bloody hard to that end behind the curtain, and then get blown off and treated like I don't care, like I'm not accounting for player perspective, or that wanting players to experience all that our worn and tired hands have wrought with antihacking/antipiracy measures is somehow evil or selfish or sadistic or inconsiderate, is certainly more than a little hurtful.

I can't say being compared to abusers, rapists, and all sorts of other things over simply disagreeing with you and defending my opinions, work, and pride as a developer (albeit more vehemently than might've been necessary) has been particularly pleasant, either. So now you (hopefully) can see why that last lash was particularly fierce, and why I realized rather quickly that it was too far and altered it. I won't say I've been a saint here, but just as I've crossed a few lines with how hard I've been biting, so too is dropping very real and infinitely more serious and severe terms and insults like that over what really amounts to an Internet disagreement over game design. Things like swearing a lot in your general direction and being a sarcastic smartass in replying to you really aren't comparable to the kinds of problems you decided to bring into it. Rape and abuse and actual victim-blaming ruin lives. Internet forum arguments and suggesting someone just might not be very good at a video game, not so much.

To answer your question, I care what people do with my work because it's made for them. If I built a bicycle for my kid, I'd be concerned and invested in their not fiddling uncaringly with its mechanisms and risking injury or causing damage and ruining what would otherwise be a fun experience, no? It's kinda the same thing here. I care because I'm thinking of them all the time, we're having arguments and deliberations beyond count on how best to cater to them all the time, and it would be a huge shame and waste of effort for them to want to hack their way to victory instead of experience what we've worked so hard to craft for them.

I don't have delusions that I'll stop it entirely. Anyone who wants to break into the files badly enough will find a way to do so regardless of what security measures I install on them. But I value my work and the time put into it, and I wish to protect its integrity from people who don't want to experience all that we've carefully planned out for them (things like a badly balanced or broken game are another matter entirely and ones I care about resolving just as much--simply wanting to break everything out of impatience is what I have a problem with here). Is that a little selfish? Probably, but I don't think it's to an unreasonable degree, at least no more so than any artist or crafter wanting to protect that which they have created.

People care about what we put our time into, and don't want to see all our hard work crumble at our feet. Especially when we can plan contingencies around those things which would cause it to crumble.

I don't care about ingame codes. Not in the slightest. I have a whole list of ones I want to implement as it stands, from progress boosters to goofy shit like Goldeneye's DK mode. But deliberately breaking into data files to skip whole massive sections of gameplay is something I cannot condone or justify. Not when so much effort is being expended to give players as rich and enjoyable an experience as we can muster up. That kind of situation makes all our work having been in vain, and I'm not okay with that. It's really not unlike spending all day preparing an extravagant meal for your family, only for the kids to throw it away and complain that they want McDonald's instead and throw fits when you tell them no--it'd piss off and annoy any parent or whomever in that situation, so it's only natural that it does the same for me in this situation. The kids might genuinely not be intending to slight the parents who slaved away cooking, they might just have an honest preference for fast food, but that doesn't make the slight or the parents' reactions and the message the kids' actions sent to them any less real or valid.

I'm really very sorry if you can't or don't understand this mindset. I'm honestly running out of ways to explain it without repeating myself, because I do want you to understand. But I can't just up and make you understand--that ball's entirely in your court, and it's your prerogative to do with it what you wish.

[Jorge D. Fuentes]

Honestly, though, Drac9, if you wouldn't come out swinging like that all the time, that would be greaaat.