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Offline Abnormal Freak

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Re: American Juggalo
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2012, 12:45:29 PM »
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Nah it was Christian http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2010/oct/09/insane-clown-posse-christians-god

Boom, counter post:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insane_Clown_Posse#Spirituality

It's Wikipedia, but eh, it's got sources.

But there's really nothing in that Guardian article that actually speaks "Christian" or "Christ." The ICP dudes don't actually call themselves Christians in any way, so it's a mistake to say they are.
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Offline Ratty

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Re: American Juggalo
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2012, 05:26:10 PM »
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But there's really nothing in that Guardian article that actually speaks "Christian" or "Christ." The ICP dudes don't actually call themselves Christians in any way, so it's a mistake to say they are.

I would have thought so to except that they didn't correct the interviewer when he asked them about their "Christian Message", though I'll admit I may have mis-read it last night as I was very sleepy lol. I had read it before but that was back in 2010. (Geez hard to believe it's already been that long.) But yeah they also mentioned that "The carnival is GOD!" which specifies monotheism and taken with their Christian background implies Yahweh of the Abrahamic tradition. Unless they're Zoroastrians.
Or secretly Hindu and they're talking about Brahman lol. But if they have specified that their spiritual message is not particularly Christian elsewhere I stand corrected, it would make more business sense for them to be less specific and appeal to a wider audience after all. And you've done more research on it than me.

They're Christian now apparently. It's part of the gig to bash the trannys and fags- oops.
As a bisexual in a serious relationship with a transgendered person I can confirm that many unfortunately do see that to be the case.

EDIT: Looking at the Psychopathic Records site briefly, I see ICP, Twizted, Blaze, and ABK listed on the main page. Seems like the same crew from years ago. Guess no one jumped ship.
Yeah I would imagine they consulted with all of them before going public with the shift/"reveal".
« Last Edit: May 19, 2012, 05:31:52 PM by Ratty »

Offline uzo

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Re: American Juggalo
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2012, 08:21:35 PM »
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Boom, counter post:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insane_Clown_Posse#Spirituality

It's Wikipedia, but eh, it's got sources.

But there's really nothing in that Guardian article that actually speaks "Christian" or "Christ." The ICP dudes don't actually call themselves Christians in any way, so it's a mistake to say they are.

Ah, so I wasn't wrong?

Er- Um- I mean, OF COURSE I wasn't wrong! I'm UZO! The prospector of undeniably truths. Correct 99.999% of the time. Your base for all the facts.

Offline Abnormal Freak

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Re: American Juggalo
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2012, 10:40:46 PM »
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I would have thought so to except that they didn't correct the interviewer when he asked them about their "Christian Message"

Yeah, there is that. I kind of wonder if it was just something where Violent J didn't want to argue on the point—or maybe he already had but the author for whatever reason ignored it and kept throwing around the word "Christian" as he seems to keep doing throughout the article, even though Violent J and Shaggy don't refer to themselves as such.

Maybe the author just has an inability to see that a lot of non-Christians worship God. A lot of people talk about God or give their shout-outs to God, but they're not exactly talking about the Judeo–Christian God—or if they are, it's that God within a context different from much of Christian doctrine and theology.

Kinda like...I don't think people thought Prince was a Christian in the '80s because he would write "All love & thanks 2 God" in his liner notes, heh.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2012, 10:45:35 PM by Abnormal Freak »
Oh yeah, and also:
meat

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Offline Ratty

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Re: American Juggalo
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2012, 03:15:22 AM »
+1
Yeah, there is that. I kind of wonder if it was just something where Violent J didn't want to argue on the point—or maybe he already had but the author for whatever reason ignored it and kept throwing around the word "Christian" as he seems to keep doing throughout the article, even though Violent J and Shaggy don't refer to themselves as such.

Maybe the author just has an inability to see that a lot of non-Christians worship God. A lot of people talk about God or give their shout-outs to God, but they're not exactly talking about the Judeo–Christian God—or if they are, it's that God within a context different from much of Christian doctrine and theology.

Kinda like...I don't think people thought Prince was a Christian in the '80s because he would write "All love & thanks 2 God" in his liner notes, heh.
This is true. Also off topic a bit but didn't Prince turn out to be a member of the- ahh just checked. Jehovah's Witnesses. Maybe he'll show up to your doorstep in a suite and tie one of these days.  ;)

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Re: American Juggalo
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2012, 08:14:48 PM »
+1
Quote
Also off topic a bit but didn't Prince turn out to be a member of the- ahh just checked. Jehovah's Witnesses.

Maybe this is why Prince has not been elevated to the King of Pop status.

Quote
As a bisexual in a serious relationship with a transgendered person I can confirm that many unfortunately do see that to be the case.

Dude I commend you on being able to be open about things that would make skinheads, KKKs and Neo Nazis role in their graves for all eternity! +1
« Last Edit: May 20, 2012, 08:17:06 PM by X »
"Spirituality is God's gift to humanity...
Religion is Man's flawed interpretation of Spirituality given back to humanity..."

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Re: American Juggalo
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2012, 09:26:23 PM »
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Maybe this is why Prince has not been elevated to the King of Pop status.

Dude I commend you on being able to be open about things that would make skinheads, KKKs and Neo Nazis role in their graves for all eternity! +1

Thanks :) I believe most people are either apathetic or sympathetic to the differences of others once they come to know them. It's my hope that bigotry generally will continue to decline in our era of instantaneous global communication and increased understanding. As bigotry is I think mostly a result of ignorance in the form of a lack of familiarity/experience, so being ourselves and good people while open about our diversity is the best way to dispel it.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2012, 09:35:42 PM by Ratty »

Offline TheouAegis

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Re: American Juggalo
« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2012, 09:36:20 AM »
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I love trannies, but unfortunately for me it's one of those things that money is required for, in my mind. First off, you might look very feminine as a young lad, but when you get older, unless you paid good money for hormone therapy and reconstructive surgery, when you get up into the 40s you will not look like a woman. Granted, women in their 60s start to look like guys anyway, but it's a tad different with trannies. I've seen some (not talking about Thai or Jap ladyboys) that look GRrrrrrREAT as girls and can't help but wonder where they got the funding for that kind of work. But I've seen some (a customer just last week, for example) who are hideously grotesque in their age, like they were only able to afford a year's supply of hormones and a cheap boob job. And if you're a tranny, please for the love of God, take care of your body! Unless your blood is seeped in female hormones, when you start packing on the pounds, your maleness will rear its ugly head and you will have the tell-tale beer gut. On a girl, that's fugly as heck! But I don't have anything against trannies in general; I understand botht he fascination with wanting to change gender as well as the fascination with those who have attempted the transition. The trannies who have gone very, very far in changing their gender are damn amazing! I don't just mean in looks, I mean I've seen some trannies that even sound and behave like girls, move like girls and show all sorts of mannerisms that Western culture defines as feminine.

But then again, the Bible says you shouldn't lay with another man as a girl, so shame on trannies, I guess. But it's ok to bang another man as long as you're not the one that is like a girl.


On the topic of female-to-male trannies, I can't say much on them. Chaz Bono is the only one I actually know of as a tranny. Aside from his girly facial features and the fact he's kinda got girl chunk, I will say his transition was pretty impressive for me.
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Offline Ratty

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Re: American Juggalo
« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2012, 07:16:05 PM »
+1
Well, the thing that you have at least partially gotten but that many people seem to struggle with is that gender does not equal physical sex. Since gender consists of largely if not wholly socially-constructed concepts of what is “feminine” and what is “masculine”. These conceptions vary widely from culture to culture and in many cases even from generation to generation within a culture. Pink was about a hundred or so years ago widely used as a color for little boys in the west, while blue was seen as a virginal** girls color, which we still see evidenced by the Virgin Mary’s common depiction in that color. These associates are often rooted in what roles are expected of a member of one or the other gender in a society, someone wearing stiletto high heel shoes is literally incapable of doing hard physical labor for example.
While there are obvious tendencies among physical sexes to identify with one or the other gender there are exceptions. It is more than possible to be physically a member of one sex and identify with whatever traits a culture assigns to the gender associated with the opposite sex.
Another common mistake made is tying gender to sexuality. I have met male-to-female (MtF) transgendered people who are only attracted to females, in turn of course their are female-to-males (FtM) who only like men, and the whole Kinsey scale in-between. So a transgendered person is not “just a gay man/woman” as many mistakenly think.
Also might want to be careful using the word "tranny" since it was originally intended as an insulting term a lot of transgendered people have the "our word/taking it back" attitude that many black people have with the N-word and gay people have with the various derogatory names for them.

But then again, the Bible says you shouldn't lay with another man as a girl, so shame on trannies, I guess. But it's ok to bang another man as long as you're not the one that is like a girl.

Not meaning to insult anyone's religion here so I'll just give some examples from the Bible itself. The same book of the Bible with the restriction against homosexuality, Leviticus, also says it’s a sin to mix fabrics in your clothing (Leviticus 19:19), cut or shave your hair/beard (Leviticus 19:27), or eat lobster or shrimp (Leviticus 11:9-12). Leviticus also says unruly children should be killed (Leviticus 20:9), and the Bible indeed features an incident where God rips to pieces 42 children via bear attack for making fun of a guy for being bald. (2 Kings 2:23-24) Oh also people with flat noses, or who are blind or lame are not allowed to approach the altar of God. (Leviticus 21:17-18) These are just some of the many, many many loopy laws in Leviticus, Deuteronomy and elsewhere in the Bible which we no longer follow. Funny we don’t see as many people calling for the stoning of those who work on the Sabbath or adulterers like the Bible also commands? Cherry-picking parts of religious books is just an easy way to justify bigotry.

The fact is that the ancient Hebrews had no idea how physical reproduction works and they were facing an under-population crises at the time. So they thought homosexuality was “wasting” the vital life essence of a man which was expunged when he um *cough*. As far as they knew women were just a vessel for the man’s essence to gestate in. Given other such “enlightening” advice in the Bible, I feel it’s safe to disregard it’s restriction against homosexuality as it is every bit as silly and, since we are not ancient Hebrews, arbitrary.

---------
**All-important in societies where power/wealth etc. is traced through male lines, no one wants/wanted to be cuckold into giving his stuff to another man’s son, so absolute control of a woman’s life and sexuality by her paternal family and later husband was/is the ideal.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2012, 11:19:45 PM by Ratty »

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