Topic: Salvaging Sonia? Plus, reflections on IGA....

[Kensuke]

It's kinda funny, but sort of a miniature holy war seems to have erupted in regards to Sonia and IGA's treatment of female characters. While a majority of people seem to agree that Legends was a weak GAME, there seemed to be a larger number of people sympathetic to the CHARACTER. I noticed this when I stumbled across a couple of fan pages dedicated to Sonia Belmont and IGA's alleged sexism. Notable artist Robert DeJesus has even done fanart of her.

Note that the last allegation isn't limited to Sonia. There's a lot of people upset with the way Maria "de-evolved" in the DCX remake of SotN. Whereas she was pretty cool in the Saturn game, IGA decided to retcon her back to the cutesy crap in Rondo. Which was fine is Rondo, but when Kojima took the helm in terms of artwork it became stupid and counterproductive.

Then there's the infamous interview he made in regards to female protagonists, which really got a lot of people's panties in a bunch.

I suspect IGA ditched Sonia for two reasons:

1. He didn't like the idea of a female protagonist, and ESPECIALLY didn't like the idea of a female Belmont coming before his beloved Trevor.

2. Some of the insinuations made in her story (admittedly) would have had some ramifications on things that came afterwards. Such as her love affair with Alucard (which may or may not mean that Trevor is quarter Vampire).

I'm wondering if it would be possible to ditch Legends, but keep Sonia? To me, Sonia is as much a Belmont as the rest. And let's face it...she's pretty hot. If you don't like the "anime style" than I'm sure she'd transfer well to Kojima's style (the Rondo characters did, after-all).

- John

[VampireHunterM]

Yeah, uhh I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you there. Have you completed Lament of Innocence? The Vampire Killer (the Belmont whip of course) obtained its power through a woman. Her soul is what gives it its strength. So to suggest that Iga is a sexist and doesn't want a female protagonist is absurd.

[Kensuke]

In Reply To #2

With respect, I think that's a weak argument You're not playing as a female. The Vampire Killer's power is not a protagonist. So it doesn't follow.

And FYI, I'm not *entirely* sure he's sexist. The argument wasn't originally advanced by myself, but rather by a number of other people (Google it, or I'll provide links for the interested). His idea to throw out Legends is a good one for reasons not related to Sonia herself. It's just that a few things he's said that have stirred controversy.

Nor do I understand why Sonia has to go. I'm sure there's some people at KCEN who worked hard on that game, even if they fell short in many respects. Might as well play homage to their efforts.

- John

[VampireHunterM]

Your missing the point! Forget a playable male/female character. The power of woman's soul destroys Dracula.There's many great games that have been taken out of the timeline. That doesn't make them bad games at all. The 2 64 titles, CotM, and Legends are great games, they just don't fit into Iga's scheme of things. Your reading into this way too much. Iga knows what he's doing. Let the artist perform his craft.

[Successor The Cruel]

I'm wondering if it would be possible to ditch Legends, but keep Sonia? To me, Sonia is as much a Belmont as the rest. And let's face it...she's pretty hot.

Is that your main reason for wanting her to be in the timeline?  If so, that's quite shallow.  Besides, she's just a generic, blonde anime girl.  I don't see what the big fuss is about.

Really, they'd be better off making another "hot" female Belmont than using Sonia again, despite the game she was created for being out of the timeline. 

Talk about muddled continuity.

[The Last Belmont]

It's kinda funny, but sort of a miniature holy war seems to have erupted in regards to Sonia and IGA's treatment of female characters. While a majority of people seem to agree that Legends was a weak GAME, there seemed to be a larger number of people sympathetic to the CHARACTER. I noticed this when I stumbled across a couple of fan pages dedicated to Sonia Belmont and IGA's alleged sexism. Notable artist Robert DeJesus has even done fanart of her.

Note that the last allegation isn't limited to Sonia. There's a lot of people upset with the way Maria "de-evolved" in the DCX remake of SotN. Whereas she was pretty cool in the Saturn game, IGA decided to retcon her back to the cutesy crap in Rondo. Which was fine is Rondo, but when Kojima took the helm in terms of artwork it became stupid and counterproductive.

Then there's the infamous interview he made in regards to female protagonists, which really got a lot of people's panties in a bunch.

I suspect IGA ditched Sonia for two reasons:

1. He didn't like the idea of a female protagonist, and ESPECIALLY didn't like the idea of a female Belmont coming before his beloved Trevor.

2. Some of the insinuations made in her story (admittedly) would have had some ramifications on things that came afterwards. Such as her love affair with Alucard (which may or may not mean that Trevor is quarter Vampire).

I'm wondering if it would be possible to ditch Legends, but keep Sonia? To me, Sonia is as much a Belmont as the rest. And let's face it...she's pretty hot. If you don't like the "anime style" than I'm sure she'd transfer well to Kojima's style (the Rondo characters did, after-all).

- John

I still consider legends canon, I love the game and sonia has some cool powers. and I don't think the baby in the end was alucard's though, it wouldn't make any sense for him to sleep with her if he hates his own bloodline. I think they had a thing but they never did it or did it with protection.

[Kensuke]

In Reply To #4

How is this quote reading into things?

Although, I purposefully left the Sonia Belmont character (from Castlevania Legends for GBC) out of the official Castlevania chronology. (laughs) Usually, the vampire storyline motifs, females tend to be sacrificed. It's easier to come up with weak, feminine characters.

Alright...so a woman's power destroyed Dracula. And he does go on to say that he might revisit the idea of a female protagonist (perhaps in the 1999 game). Big deal. He still kicked out a Belmont BECAUSE she was a she.

- John

[Kensuke]

Is that your main reason for wanting her to be in the timeline?  If so, that's quite shallow.

Actually, no. It's not my main reason. Though it's *a* reason. If they replaced her with another female Belmont, I probably would be placated just as well. I also realize not everybody likes the anime style, and I think Kojima might do a pretty good job upgrading Sonia.

My question is, why reinvent the wheel? We got a female Belmont. Use her.

Talk about muddled continuity.

No shit. And to be perfectly honest, I'm not sure if IGA is making things better or worse.

- John

[impulse]

In Reply To #1

First you say;
"but when Kojima took the helm in terms of artwork it became stupid and counterproductive."

But then later you go on to state, even a couple of times, that she'd do a good Sonia.

:S

Anyways, Iga get's blamed for everything bad about the series, but almost never get's any credit for the good stuff, poor guy... Anyways, he DID add only one thing from
the saturn version of SotN to chronicles, which he added to aswell, and that was a playable, and highly female, Maria.

[Munchy]

I have to ask, if IGA is sexist, why would he give his two right hand women (Michiru Yamane and Ayami Kojima) complete freedom over pretty much everything they do?

[Kensuke]

Reply to post #9:

Right. Because Kojima didn't have anything to do with the TeddyBear crap. That was from Rondo. Maria was COMPLETELY different in the Sega Saturn version. She was bad ass and came into her own (albeit they really should have written a story for her). In the new SotN he thought it would be fun to make her more like the cutesy girl she was in in Rondo (gag).

Why people bag on the "juvenile" anime artwork in the DS games and then let this crap slide I don't understand. IGA gets attacked for many different things, but nobody seems to be consistent in their criticism.

- John

[Kensuke]

In Reply To #10

Uhhhh....because they're over 9000 times more talented than he is?

I didn't imply the man was a dumbass.

- John

[Profbeanburrito]

I've got no problem with a female Belmont or using Sonia as Trevor's mother. What I do have a problem with is that Alucard's his father and the she was supposed to be the first Belmont. If they changed those two things I'd be fine with them reusing her

[The Last Belmont]

I've got no problem with a female Belmont or using Sonia as Trevor's mother. What I do have a problem with is that Alucard's his father and the she was supposed to be the first Belmont. If they changed those two things I'd be fine with them reusing her

Well what I gathered after playing LOI is that after Leon's encounter they stayed hidden and were training waiting for Mathias or drac as he's also known to make his move, so sonia was the first one to beat drac technically but not the first belmont. Also the game never specifically stated the baby is alucard's, it just says some time later sonia had him, and I would think it probably isn't cuz alucard hates himself.

[uzo]

I'm sure women were allowed to do many important things before the 1950's.

Its perfectly logical why Belmont protagonists are guys. Look at the times they are in.

Things post PoR however have a greater potential for a female lead.