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Offline theplottwist

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What is this symbol?
« on: October 01, 2017, 04:20:11 PM »
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Pretty straightforward. I wanna know from where came this sigil/symbol. Age, context, meaning, everything possible.



What I know about it:

-This is possibly from the 12th century.
-This is possibly used on stained glass.

Looks like a celtic knot, and that's all I could come up with.

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Re: What is this symbol?
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2017, 09:52:18 AM »
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Can you tell us where you found this? It might help with the search.
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Offline theplottwist

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Re: What is this symbol?
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2017, 12:37:35 PM »
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Can you tell us where you found this? It might help with the search.

It actually has a connection to Castlevania. But the context of this on Castlevania gives zero clues about the symbol's origin (it's a magic seal, basically). What I listed above comes from research I did on the internet. But, ultimatelly, I was unable to find out the symbol's origin.
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Offline AdrianTepes

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Re: What is this symbol?
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2017, 11:28:06 PM »
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It indeed looks a lot like a celtic knot, more exactly, like a very simple quarternary celtic knot (a knot with 4 predominant corners)

Besides the obvious theme of eternity or never ending cycle celtic knots share, a 4 part knot is usually associated with meanings like:
  • Four cardinal directions
  • Four stations (that could make some sense with the flower in yours)
  • Four of the eight Wiccan/Celtic Sabbats (Samhain, Beltaine, Imbolc, Lughnasadh the Fire related ones I believe)
  • Four elements (as a magic seal/in a videogame context this is the meaning that would make more sense to me)

These knots existed way before the 12th century, as they are found in celtic art way before Christianity reached there (around, the 5th century, I believe) but they became very common on Christian art, so it probably wouldn't be weird to find them on stained glass.
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Offline theplottwist

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Re: What is this symbol?
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2017, 10:17:10 AM »
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Besides the obvious theme of eternity or never ending cycle celtic knots share, a 4 part knot is usually associated with meanings like:
  • Four cardinal directions
  • Four stations (that could make some sense with the flower in yours)
  • Four of the eight Wiccan/Celtic Sabbats (Samhain, Beltaine, Imbolc, Lughnasadh the Fire related ones I believe)
  • Four elements (as a magic seal/in a videogame context this is the meaning that would make more sense to me)

These knots existed way before the 12th century, as they are found in celtic art way before Christianity reached there (around, the 5th century, I believe) but they became very common on Christian art, so it probably wouldn't be weird to find them on stained glass.

That's.... pretty interesting info, actually. I'd like some sources, nvm I found some following your lead, but this is already plenty and WOULD fit with what I'm looking for. Thank you!
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 05:43:03 PM by theplottwist »
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Offline X

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Re: What is this symbol?
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2017, 10:19:23 AM »
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I found a page with this on it.



But I can't access it because it's one of those "strictly for facebook users websites" which is dumb. But you can see the Celtic knot is in there.
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Offline Dracula9

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Re: What is this symbol?
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2017, 02:36:17 PM »
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I'm currently limited to my phone for the interwebs, I'll have information properly compiled when I'm back online in full.


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Offline theplottwist

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Re: What is this symbol?
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2017, 05:46:28 PM »
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I found a page with this on it.



But I can't access it because it's one of those "strictly for facebook users websites" which is dumb. But you can see the Celtic knot is in there.

The two first ones from the third row are the ones that interest me the most.

I'm currently limited to my phone for the interwebs, I'll have information properly compiled when I'm back online in full.

I'll be waiting :'(
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Offline Dracula9

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Re: What is this symbol?
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2017, 11:16:23 AM »
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It indeed looks a lot like a celtic knot, more exactly, like a very simple quarternary celtic knot (a knot with 4 predominant corners)

Besides the obvious theme of eternity or never ending cycle celtic knots share, a 4 part knot is usually associated with meanings like:
  • Four cardinal directions
  • Four stations (that could make some sense with the flower in yours)
  • Four of the eight Wiccan/Celtic Sabbats (Samhain, Beltaine, Imbolc, Lughnasadh the Fire related ones I believe)
  • Four elements (as a magic seal/in a videogame context this is the meaning that would make more sense to me)

These knots existed way before the 12th century, as they are found in celtic art way before Christianity reached there (around, the 5th century, I believe) but they became very common on Christian art, so it probably wouldn't be weird to find them on stained glass.


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All of this seems plausibly accurate, mostly because the general shape/linear directions/usage of space and form of quarternary knots aren't all necessarily cross-shaped. Some are also X-shaped, and given the Celtic origins the X shape has also been used as a connotation to the clover. Below are instances I've amassed wherein the shape/linearities fall under this category, as well as instances of stained glass to support the portion of your inquiry relating to stained glass.



That multiple-knots image also features several knots which also fall within the above stipulations, but I don't think it's necessary for me to mark out the (pretty simple) shapes in red and blue more than a few times--since the simplicity speaks for itself, after all.

All in all, quarternary knots seem to be the most plausible, and have the necessary details and history to ring true of your two stipulations of "stained glass" and "12th century or earlier".

EDIT: It may also be possible that it contains slight reference to the evil eye--look at the "arms" of the cross singularly and it's not hard to see how much the symbol looks like two eyes sharing one unique pupil (heh...not hard to see). But I have no supporting evidence that even remotely backs this up, so it's purely conjecture. Neat conjecture, but conjecture nonetheless.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 12:13:10 PM by Dracula9 »


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Offline zangetsu468

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Re: What is this symbol?
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2017, 10:22:30 AM »
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I believe it's a rose croix. (At first I thought it was a 4 leaf clover, but clover petals tend to be more love-heart shaped.)
 
Coincidentally enough, google rose croix and "celtic knot" and you get a lot of X's symbols.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[Judgement]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                              
                **<<<<<SuperCVIV>COTM<<<<<<<<+
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^
                                 ^      l   v  ^    +<<<<<<<BE
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^  
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     BE>>> VK<**   
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     ^          ^   
            +<<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64       ^
            v                           l              ^                ^
            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE    RE
            v                           l      ^               ^       ^
LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS>>>KD
                                                                          v
                                                                         BE>*  
BE=Bad Ending
RE=Richter Ending

Offline theplottwist

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Re: What is this symbol?
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2017, 03:02:17 PM »
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Thanks for your responses, dudes. In special, Adrian and D9, your points about this being related to "four-of-something symbolism" hits VERY close to home, because a symbol very similar to the one I posted was used on Castlevania: Curse of Darkness:



I'm trying to understand what it meant in this context (if it even meant anything).

This symbol, on the game, is sealing Dracula's Castle away, beyond a portal that can only be opened by the blood of a Belmont. Considering that Dracula was previously defeated by four people, then could the seal's four interlaced "corners" be referring to them, perhaps?
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Offline zangetsu468

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Re: What is this symbol?
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2017, 04:33:48 PM »
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4 people, 4 elements, 4 cardinal directions, 4 stones of alchemy, and essentially it's a cross.

The Rose Croix is symbolic of the Belmonts' bloodline (required to open the seal) imo.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<[Judgement]>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

                              
                **<<<<<SuperCVIV>COTM<<<<<<<<+
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^
                                 ^      l   v  ^    +<<<<<<<BE
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v                 ^  
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     BE>>> VK<**   
                                 ^      l   v  ^    v     ^          ^   
            +<<<<<Legends>HC>OOS>LOD>64       ^
            v                           l              ^                ^
            v                           l     BE>> * <<<BE    RE
            v                           l      ^               ^       ^
LOI>CVIII>COD>AR>BR>CVC>CVII>HOD>ROB>SOTN>OOE>BL>POR>AOS>DOS>>>KD
                                                                          v
                                                                         BE>*  
BE=Bad Ending
RE=Richter Ending

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